PUNTSQUAD 175 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, crocp said: Ya i agree...its not the most realistic...but i've seen it happen in a few mocks so that is why I asked Well if you can do a Jokic/Drummond/Draymond big 3 then I say go for it. You've already done major work in REB/AST/STL with that trio and 3PM/FG/BLK shouldn't be too hard to acquire in rounds 4 and beyond. Players I'd look to target from that point: Kyle Lowry Brook Lopez Hassan Whiteside Marc Gasol Joe Ingles Mikal Bridges Mason Plumlee Jerami Grant PJ Tucker Edited October 17, 2019 by PUNTSQUAD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crocp 663 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, PUNTSQUAD said: Well if you can do a Jokic/Drummond/Draymond big 3 then I say go for it. You've already done major work in REB/AST/STL with that trio and 3PM/FG/BLK shouldn't be too hard to acquire in rounds 4 and beyond. Players I'd look to target from that point: Kyle Lowry Brook Lopez Hassan Whiteside Joe Ingles Mikal Bridges Mason Plumlee Jerami Grant PJ Tucker Agreed, thanks. Seems like Vuc would be more realistic 2nd round target...with him I can just punt blocks and try to build a well rounded team. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StifleTower2 2,525 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, crocp said: Ya i agree...its not the most realistic...but i've seen it happen in a few mocks so that is why I asked I like it a lot but didn’t mention it bc I didn’t know you’d be into it and as mentioned it’s somewhat unrealistic. I mean you’d be sacrificing Jokic’s elite FT to an extent. But you could do a soft punt of FT. He provides those elite assists/steals for a big while Drummond would just have you owning rebounds, assists, stocks, FG. You might want another one like Adams in the 5th. I think Jokic/Vuc would just be better. You’re in the hunt in every cat then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Highlander23 96 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, StifleTower2 said: If you draft Jokic you simply have to work around his weaknesses, like you would with any player. I also agree that it’s unlikely that Jokic finishes 6th in per game. But he’s relatively durable and is also easy to build around. If you draft him first you’re destined for strong rebounds, assists, steals, and percentages. You’re sort of capped in points and blocks due to the opportunity cost of having a big fill your C slot who only gets .7 blocks and he’s also the lowest scoring player in the first round. I’d try to build around his strengths by drafting an efficient team who is strong in assists/steals by drafting efficient littles. Jrue or Butler would be good in the second round. You could also punt points by getting someone like Turner in the second and Draymond in the third. Or if booker falls he’d be a good candidate for punt TO, keep your popcorn stats and efficiency very high. Lillard might be easier to around though as most players in the late second/early third are bigs. I think Lillard is better in H2H as he’s basically the most durable first round player and you’re likely to get two solid bigs 2/3. It’s also easy to soft punt FG/To. In roto I prefer Jokic bc one of the most important things is getting bigs who hit free throws and they’re scarce. Additionally, he all but guarantees being elite in assists and steals. Roto gold. While I agree it's nice to have bigs that shoot FT well, I always feel like it's overblown a bit. As an example, I drafted a team last night in a mock draft that included Drummond and Whiteside. The team FT% sat at 78%. That's not going to win you the category by any means, but it is certainly going to get you middle of the pack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WFK 266 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, Highlander23 said: While I agree it's nice to have bigs that shoot FT well, I always feel like it's overblown a bit. As an example, I drafted a team last night in a mock draft that included Drummond and Whiteside. The team FT% sat at 78%. That's not going to win you the category by any means, but it is certainly going to get you middle of the pack. Could you post your entire team? I find it hard to believe a team with Drummond and Whiteside would sit at 78% (which would still only get you a midtable position at FT% at best in roto). I'll stand corrected if it's the case, but normally Drummond or Whiteside alone would already drag you to an FT% below that. I've managed to win the FT% cat in roto once with DJ on my team, but I only played him 70% of the time and had guys like DeRozan, Lou Will and Gallo to compensate for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StifleTower2 2,525 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, WFK said: Could you post your entire team? I find it hard to believe a team with Drummond and Whiteside would sit at 78% (which would still only get you a midtable position at FT% at best in roto). I'll stand corrected if it's the case, but normally Drummond or Whiteside alone would already drag you to an FT% below that. I've managed to win the FT% cat in roto once with DJ on my team, but I only played him 70% of the time and had guys like DeRozan, Lou Will and Gallo to compensate for it. It’s possible if he drafted Lillard first (harden even better obviously). Then just a few good guards such Conley would do it, assuming the rest of the team was guard heavy. That’s besides the point of why would you draft Drummond/Whiteside if you picked Lillard first. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WFK 266 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, StifleTower2 said: It’s possible if he drafted Lillard first (harden even better obviously). Then just a few good guards such Conley would do it, assuming the rest of the team was guard heavy. That’s besides the point of why would you draft Drummond/Whiteside if you picked Lillard first. Yeah I guess it's possible, but it requires such a specific build just to compensate Drummond+Whiteside enough to be slightly below average in FT. Why go through so much trouble to score 4 (maybe 5) out 12 points? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StifleTower2 2,525 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, WFK said: Yeah I guess it's possible, but it requires such a specific build just to compensate Drummond+Whiteside enough to be slightly below average in FT. Why go through so much trouble to score 4 (maybe 5) out 12 points? Who knows? I can sort of see drafting Lillard then Drummond bc he’s BPA. But then presumably his next few picks would be like Mitchell, Conley, Gallo idk. The real question is why pick Whiteside there? You’ve done a lot of work to get your FT over 80%. Whiteside is a two cat guy, boards and blocks. So he costs you 6 points in FT to get 6-7 points in those two cats. Basically a waste of a pick, would be better off with almost anyone else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Highlander23 96 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, WFK said: Could you post your entire team? I find it hard to believe a team with Drummond and Whiteside would sit at 78% (which would still only get you a midtable position at FT% at best in roto). I'll stand corrected if it's the case, but normally Drummond or Whiteside alone would already drag you to an FT% below that. I've managed to win the FT% cat in roto once with DJ on my team, but I only played him 70% of the time and had guys like DeRozan, Lou Will and Gallo to compensate for it. This was the team- I'll even give the projections used in case you see something strange there. The total comes out to 77.7%. PG- Mike Conley 316/376- 84% SG- Josh Richardson 199/235- 85% G- Damian Lillard 461/500- 92% SF- Terrance Ross 124/145- 85% PF- Andre Drummond 266/435- 61% F- Myles Turner 187/241- 77% C- Jonas Valanciunas 271/342- 79% C- Hassan Whiteside 130/231- 56% Util- Delon Wright 141/170- 83% Util- Kyle Lowry 171/202- 84% Bench- Dwight Powell Bench- Joe Harris Bench- TJ Warren 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fabrar 2,888 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said: Who knows? I can sort of see drafting Lillard then Drummond bc he’s BPA. But then presumably his next few picks would be like Mitchell, Conley, Gallo idk. The real question is why pick Whiteside there? You’ve done a lot of work to get your FT over 80%. Whiteside is a two cat guy, boards and blocks. So he costs you 6 points in FT to get 6-7 points in those two cats. Basically a waste of a pick, would be better off with almost anyone else. Yeah it's kind of a waste of one of Lillard's best cats, FT, to draft guys like Drummond/Whiteside. For my roto build around Lillard, I tried to go for big guys that are good to great at FT - Ayton, BroLo, Gasol, Dedmon etc. I guess Favors is the odd one out there though lol but his volume isn't that high to hurt you too much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Highlander23 96 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) I should say that for some of the mock, I was away from the computer and a couple of guys went on auto based on my rankings. Whiteside was one of the picks that happened that way. Edited October 17, 2019 by Highlander23 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fabrar 2,888 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Highlander23 said: This was the team- I'll even give the projections used in case you see something strange there. The total comes out to 77.7%. PG- Mike Conley 316/376- 84% SG- Josh Richardson 199/235- 85% G- Damian Lillard 461/500- 92% SF- Terrance Ross 124/145- 85% PF- Andre Drummond 266/435- 61% F- Myles Turner 187/241- 77% C- Jonas Valanciunas 271/342- 79% C- Hassan Whiteside 130/231- 56% Util- Delon Wright 141/170- 83% Util- Kyle Lowry 171/202- 84% Bench- Dwight Powell Bench- Joe Harris Bench- TJ Warren Does this take into account the volume though? For example, in 18/19 Drummond took 5.2 FTs at a 59% clip, and Whiteside took 3.4% at 44%. This will weigh much more towards your FT% than just bare averages Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StifleTower2 2,525 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, fabrar said: Does this take into account the volume though? For example, in 18/19 Drummond took 5.2 FTs at a 59% clip, and Whiteside took 3.4% at 44%. This will weigh much more towards your FT% than just bare averages It takes into account volume, you can see their season totals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Highlander23 96 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, fabrar said: Does this take into account the volume though? For example, in 18/19 Drummond took 5.2 FTs at a 59% clip, and Whiteside took 3.4% at 44%. This will weigh much more towards your FT% than just bare averages Yes...I gave the projections for FTM and FTA.....for example, Lillard is 461/500, while Whiteside is 130/231. When they are all added up, it comes to 77.7%. I certainly know you can't just take percentages and average them without taking volume into account! Another real example is a team I had last year that finished 3rd overall. I had Drummond and he ended up being my largest volume FT shooter. I still finished with 6 points and a .785 FT%. Not saying these guys don't hurt you in FT (or FG% in other cases), just saying that some sources make it sound like if you draft a Drummond or Whiteside, you are doomed to finish last in the category and that can be misleading. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StifleTower2 2,525 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Highlander23 said: Yes...I gave the projections for FTM and FTA.....for example, Lillard is 461/500, while Whiteside is 130/231. When they are all added up, it comes to 77.7%. I certainly know you can't just take percentages and average them without taking volume into account! Another real example is a team I had last year that finished 3rd overall. I had Drummond and he ended up being my largest volume FT shooter. I still finished with 6 points and a .785 FT%. Not saying these guys don't hurt you in FT (or FG% in other cases), just saying that some sources make it sound like if you draft a Drummond or Whiteside, you are doomed to finish last in the category and that can be misleading. It’s a chicken/egg issue. Particularly in the case of Drummond he doesn’t kill your FT automatically. But if I knew I had Drummond and Whiteside I wouldn’t look to repair it either. Yet if I had Lillard and Drummond came at 19 I would snap call and figure it out later. As an aside. I think Capela is way underrated for this reason. Everyone lumps him with the punt FT guys but it’s on such low volume that any 6/7 shooter makes up for it. His positive FG impact is so much more powerful than his negative FT impact. Harden + Capela=50/80. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snerpy 371 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 hours ago, PUNTSQUAD said: Well if you can do a Jokic/Drummond/Draymond big 3 then I say go for it. You've already done major work in REB/AST/STL with that trio and 3PM/FG/BLK shouldn't be too hard to acquire in rounds 4 and beyond. Players I'd look to target from that point: Kyle Lowry Brook Lopez Hassan Whiteside Marc Gasol Joe Ingles Mikal Bridges Mason Plumlee Jerami Grant PJ Tucker Went Gobert/Drummond/Capela 1-2-3 Going 5-4 every week by punting Points/Assists/FT’s and mid-high tier in 3’s and Steals 🤪 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WFK 266 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Highlander23 said: This was the team- I'll even give the projections used in case you see something strange there. The total comes out to 77.7%. PG- Mike Conley 316/376- 84% SG- Josh Richardson 199/235- 85% G- Damian Lillard 461/500- 92% SF- Terrance Ross 124/145- 85% PF- Andre Drummond 266/435- 61% F- Myles Turner 187/241- 77% C- Jonas Valanciunas 271/342- 79% C- Hassan Whiteside 130/231- 56% Util- Delon Wright 141/170- 83% Util- Kyle Lowry 171/202- 84% Bench- Dwight Powell Bench- Joe Harris Bench- TJ Warren Like I said, I stand corrected. If I were you though I'd try to trade Whiteside as soon as possible for a non-punt FT big; the 77,7% will probably land you around 4/5 points in a 12 teamer. While you're right it doesn't automatically make you finish dead last in the rankings, keeping the combination of the two around will be the difference between finishing bottom half or top 3 in FT. Since you mentioned that Whiteside was an autopick I'd move him for sure; whatever you get in return will most likely earn you 6/7 points in FT alone already. Keeping Drummond around can easily be compensated for by the rest of your team, and he's probably worth it considering his immense impact in FG/REBS and solid PNT/STL/BLK 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StifleTower2 2,525 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, WFK said: Like I said, I stand corrected. If I were you though I'd try to trade Whiteside as soon as possible for a non-punt FT big; the 77,7% will probably land you around 4/5 points in a 12 teamer. While you're right it doesn't automatically make you finish dead last in the rankings, keeping the combination of the two around will be the difference between finishing bottom half or top 3 in FT. Since you mentioned that Whiteside was an autopick I'd move him for sure; whatever you get in return will most likely earn you 6/7 points in FT alone already. Keeping Drummond around can easily be compensated for by the rest of your team, and he's probably worth it considering his immense impact in FG/REBS and solid PNT/STL/BLK I agree and honestly I don’t think whiteside even breaks even over a replacement level player who doesn’t hurt your FT%. He costs 5ish points in FT. Idk who is on his wire but someone like Prince could get more points, threes, assists, steals than whiteside without that 5 point FT hit. Whiteside at most gets you 2-3 points in FG, Reb, Blk. Whiteside may gets you a few more roto points than just leaving the slot open. Edited October 17, 2019 by StifleTower2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Highlander23 96 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 hours ago, WFK said: Like I said, I stand corrected. If I were you though I'd try to trade Whiteside as soon as possible for a non-punt FT big; the 77,7% will probably land you around 4/5 points in a 12 teamer. While you're right it doesn't automatically make you finish dead last in the rankings, keeping the combination of the two around will be the difference between finishing bottom half or top 3 in FT. Since you mentioned that Whiteside was an autopick I'd move him for sure; whatever you get in return will most likely earn you 6/7 points in FT alone already. Keeping Drummond around can easily be compensated for by the rest of your team, and he's probably worth it considering his immense impact in FG/REBS and solid PNT/STL/BLK As I said originally, this was just a mock draft...that's why I wasn't too worried about the auto picks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crocp 663 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 9 hours ago, StifleTower2 said: I like it a lot but didn’t mention it bc I didn’t know you’d be into it and as mentioned it’s somewhat unrealistic. I mean you’d be sacrificing Jokic’s elite FT to an extent. But you could do a soft punt of FT. He provides those elite assists/steals for a big while Drummond would just have you owning rebounds, assists, stocks, FG. You might want another one like Adams in the 5th. I think Jokic/Vuc would just be better. You’re in the hunt in every cat then. How did I end up doing? This is a 14 team league (i had 6th pick snake)...9 cat h2h. Tried to build a pretty solid all around team...punting blocks only...soft in points (hoping lavine can help here)..and i feel im fairly strong elsewhere...Thoughts? Jokic Vucevic Conley Lavine Shai Rubio Harrell BogBog Dwight Powell Taurean Prince Dinwiddie 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StifleTower2 2,525 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, crocp said: How did I end up doing? This is a 14 team league (i had 6th pick snake)...9 cat h2h. Tried to build a pretty solid all around team...punting blocks only...soft in points (hoping lavine can help here)..and i feel im fairly strong elsewhere...Thoughts? Jokic Vucevic Conley Lavine Shai Rubio Harrell BogBog Dwight Powell Taurean Prince Dinwiddie I think you're right. Punt blocks, slightly bad in points. Maybe TO as well. But really strong in threes, assists, steals, probably boards. Strong percentages. Should be able to go 6-3 most weeks, maybe slightly better bc it's 14 teams. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crocp 663 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, StifleTower2 said: I think you're right. Punt blocks, slightly bad in points. Maybe TO as well. But really strong in threes, assists, steals, probably boards. Strong percentages. Should be able to go 6-3 most weeks, maybe slightly better bc it's 14 teams. Ya, im pretty happy with the results...Thanks for the help and feedback ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StifleTower2 2,525 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, crocp said: Ya, im pretty happy with the results...Thanks for the help and feedback ! Aside from Harrell, in which spot I would have picked another wing (assuming I'm punting blocks), it looks like something I'd draw up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
atlantadynasty 552 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Thought this was a "Do not draft list" but y'all posting players you drafted? 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Real_Deal 300 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 5 hours ago, atlantadynasty said: Thought this was a "Do not draft list" but y'all posting players you drafted? Seriously! I thought so too. Should make a separate thread for that topic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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