MWon 1,729 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Man, the Rotoworld guys really love him, as they keep insisting on a hold. In fact, their latest blurb that mentions him as a Top 40 player is actually true; in the last week, he's considered a Top 50 player on BM. Then again, it's only based on a 3-game stretch where he averaged 4 boards, 5 assists, and 5 stocks per game (and we know how hot a pickup Thybulle got even while trashing efficiency cats). The Knicks won against the Mavs without him (basically using DSJ to whomp on them with Franky in foul trouble), and I wonder if Payton's eventual return shortens his leash even more. I'll happily let someone else deal with him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
atlantadynasty 552 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 40 minutes ago, MWon said: Man, the Rotoworld guys really love him, as they keep insisting on a hold. In fact, their latest blurb that mentions him as a Top 40 player is actually true; in the last week, he's considered a Top 50 player on BM. Then again, it's only based on a 3-game stretch where he averaged 4 boards, 5 assists, and 5 stocks per game (and we know how hot a pickup Thybulle got even while trashing efficiency cats). The Knicks won against the Mavs without him (basically using DSJ to whomp on them with Franky in foul trouble), and I wonder if Payton's eventual return shortens his leash even more. I'll happily let someone else deal with him. eh, can't hold a guy who I literally have 0 idea how the night will go. He could play from 30 to DNP. When fitzdale bounces, I'll reconsider him or if Payton and DSJ get injured again Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raiiny 511 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 I dropped him for Dunn. At least I know Dunn will give me some stls in just 20-25mins of playing time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
laurilegend 207 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, vyun said: This has nothing to do with Frank specifically, and I neither agree nor disagree with yours or any takes on him at the moment, but jesus christ people need stop listening to whatever the roto writers say like gospel. Do they spend more time than most of us doing this? Yes. Are they any smarter than you or me? Hell no. Are they wrong just as much as any one of us who even spends 20 miinutes a day looking at box scores, thinkign about rotations, and coming up with plans for ourselves? Hell yes. If people want to win their leagues, they need to put a little effort and thought in and not just do whatever some so called expert says to do True, and with guys like Frank they will usually be something like "mediocre line tonight but the ....breakout could happen at any time solid hold" and you're like what? Solid hold dude is barely producing top 150 value and it's his 3rd year in the league... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eltoro 710 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 9 hours ago, MWon said: Man, the Rotoworld guys really love him, as they keep insisting on a hold. In fact, their latest blurb that mentions him as a Top 40 player is actually true; in the last week, he's considered a Top 50 player on BM. Then again, it's only based on a 3-game stretch where he averaged 4 boards, 5 assists, and 5 stocks per game (and we know how hot a pickup Thybulle got even while trashing efficiency cats). The Knicks won against the Mavs without him (basically using DSJ to whomp on them with Franky in foul trouble), and I wonder if Payton's eventual return shortens his leash even more. I'll happily let someone else deal with him. Rotoworld writers are subject to the same cognitive biases as the rest of us. I just get injury updates from fantasylabs and figure the rest of it out for myself. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MWon 1,729 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, Eltoro said: Rotoworld writers are subject to the same cognitive biases as the rest of us. I just get injury updates from fantasylabs and figure the rest of it out for myself. A wise move. I definitely agree; I'm just putting it out there, haha. It's just funny to watch them try and spin players around with facts (while true) that are twisted to suit their biases and views. It's paralleled by many ESPN sportscasters too (it seems like every day, someone breaks some sort of random, convoluted basketball record), so it's not exclusive to rotoworld. Take their views at face value, just like you would with any of the opinions of posters here, myself included. It's just helpful to hear what everyone's thinking, even (especially) if it's contrary to your own mentality. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
4th and 9ers 74 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 He’s continued to play well and produce in steals and assists when he’s not in foul trouble. My concern is with Fizdale in general and once Elfrid returns from injury and he inevitably divides the minutes up further between all three PGs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RingMyBell 454 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 hours ago, 4th and 9ers said: He’s continued to play well and produce in steals and assists when he’s not in foul trouble. My concern is with Fizdale in general and once Elfrid returns from injury and he inevitably divides the minutes up further between all three PGs. I dropped for batum. Steals are nice, but he is terrible everywhere else. Doesn't even run an offense, brings up the ball and finds a corner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
curly 19 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 The reason I won steals this week. Cheers Frank. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kawz 382 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I’ve decided to move on as well. DSJ was in foul trouble or else there would have been a split in minutes. Payton will eventually take a share as well. The 35mpg Frank you’re seeing now will be gone very shortly, and if he’s only averaging something like 7-3-5with 2 steals in big minutes, imagine what that’ll be like when he’s down in the low 20’s 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MysticPeak 439 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) I think Elfrid Payton gets 28 minutes and Frank gets the rest and this either benches DSJ or moves him to SG "because Fizdale experiment". Payton's the more well-rounded out of the three guys. Trier benched, out of the rotation. DSJ position battle with Dotson. I think it's what you see what you get with Frank for now, Fiz doesn't put him in a position to score. He seems comfortable shooting mid-range pullups off the dribble, but it's just not going in. So what do you make of that? Just a plain out terrible shooter? Guy needs to shoot more. Edited November 17, 2019 by MysticPeak Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gorgeous George 424 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I'm keeping Frank. I think unless Fiz is fired he'll be traded to a team that will start him. Frank can play, but Fizdale's "system" neuters all point guards in favor of inefficient, ball chucking bigs. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tremixt 2,064 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Gorgeous George said: I'm keeping Frank. I think unless Fiz is fired he'll be traded to a team that will start him. Frank can play, but Fizdale's "system" neuters all point guards in favor of inefficient, ball chucking bigs. I agree w/ this. Fantasy basketball creates bias against players like Nkilikina. He's a solid player, above average defender. He's been one of the biggest net positives for the Knicks. The stats aren't there, but the impact is there. The more he plays and gets accustomed to starting w/o having to worry about getting pulled, the more I think he settles along w/ the stats. Edited November 17, 2019 by tremixt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hornrimmed_rambis 2,086 Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 6/6 and 3 steals is a giant. He is #72 ranked in the last two weeks, averaging elite 2.1 steals. He also is managing to get an out of position 1 block per game. We should be praying nothing changes, not hoping for upside from here. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MysticPeak 439 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 He's definitely what Mike D'Antoni wouldn't want his guards feeling coming into the game. Before the game, he told Kendall Marshall to not care about committing turnovers or be in a shooting slump, just play you and be you -- Kendall Marshall ended up having a career night that game. Fiz keeps a short leash on young guns and it always ends up hurting their growth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
atlantadynasty 552 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 payton out for another 10 days at least. Staying in my starting lineup Quote Link to post Share on other sites
memo 170 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 How in the hellllll can you be in the NBA and play 30+ minutes, only score 4-6 points, not get to the line enough, and have low percentages to sprinkle on top. 😷 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MysticPeak 439 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, memo said: How in the hellllll can you be in the NBA and play 30+ minutes, only score 4-6 points, not get to the line enough, and have low percentages to sprinkle on top. 😷 40% Frank's fault, 60% Fizdale's. Go stand in the corner, Frank. Let's develop our vets. In fact, I've come up with a new system, and in that new system, you'll be called the corner guard. Edited November 19, 2019 by MysticPeak 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RingMyBell 454 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, MysticPeak said: 40% Frank's fault, 60% Fizdale's. Go stand in the corner, Frank. Let's develop our vets. In fact, I've come up with a new system, and in that new system, you'll be called the corner guard. Coach is under pressure to win games. He can't do that relying on this offensively inept PG. You do that with veterans. So if the Knicks would give him time to develop young talent without holding his job as a carrot, maybe he could do that. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MynameisMudd 319 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I'm just telling all of you, there is so much untapped potential in this kid. You can teach and groom a player to show adequate offense....much harder to teach and groom defense. Once Frank is either out of NY or Fiz is fired, I think we will see that potential start to be realized. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotojoe 532 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 how many coaches has he played for? It's not just Fizdale. there is a family I know who keeps blaming the school for their kid's poor grades. He has gone through multiple teachers and a new school- same results and same excuses. At some point you have to start realizing the kid himself is part of the problem. If Frank had the right type of personality, maybe he could develop into a Pat Beverley type of player. That's his upside. But he doesn't play with that chip or that fire. Payton is the Knicks best PG prospect and should get all the minutes he can handle. As a Knicks fan, I really hope they can get a draft pick for Frank. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yung_fetty 170 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, rotojoe said: how many coaches has he played for? It's not just Fizdale. there is a family I know who keeps blaming the school for their kid's poor grades. He has gone through multiple teachers and a new school- same results and same excuses. At some point you have to start realizing the kid himself is part of the problem. If Frank had the right type of personality, maybe he could develop into a Pat Beverley type of player. That's his upside. But he doesn't play with that chip or that fire. Payton is the Knicks best PG prospect and should get all the minutes he can handle. As a Knicks fan, I really hope they can get a draft pick for Frank. 2 coaches— Hornacek + Fizdale. Not sure who is more inept... but I think it all boils down to James Dolan’s impatience of rebuilding affecting the coaches’ decisions, which you should know as a Knicks fan. You are a prime example of what happens to Knicks fans after so many horrible years. I’m sorry you’ve gone blind sir, but there is no way in hell 25 year old Elfrid Payton—6th year, 6th team in the NBA—has more potential than 21 year old Frankie. Elfrid had has his chances, he is what he is Good luck on your season; maybe look into a LASIK procedure if you get the chance 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotojoe 532 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 minute ago, yung_fetty said: 2 coaches— Hornacek + Fizdale. Not sure who is more inept... but I think it all boils down to James Dolan’s impatience of rebuilding affecting the coaches’ decisions, which you should know as a Knicks fan. You are a prime example of what happens to Knicks fans after so many horrible years. I’m sorry you’ve gone blind sir, but there is no way in hell 25 year old Elfrid Payton—6th year, 6th team in the NBA—has more potential than 21 year old Frankie. Elfrid had has his chances, he is what he is Good luck on your season; maybe look into a LASIK procedure if you get the chance maybe Frankie needs Lasik to learn how to put the ball in the basket... You're right Payton has had his chances- and he actually has done pretty well with them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore1521 1,461 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) Just now, rotojoe said: maybe Frankie needs Lasik to learn how to put the ball in the basket... You're right Payton has had his chances- and he actually has done pretty well with them. Orlando has been in search for a PG for what seems like an eternity and they let him go very telling imo but hey Payton does fit in with the Randle Taj Portis types for the worst way to develop youth strategy Edited November 19, 2019 by kmoore1521 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
memo 170 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 24 minutes ago, yung_fetty said: 2 coaches— Hornacek + Fizdale. Not sure who is more inept... but I think it all boils down to James Dolan’s impatience of rebuilding affecting the coaches’ decisions, which you should know as a Knicks fan. You are a prime example of what happens to Knicks fans after so many horrible years. I’m sorry you’ve gone blind sir, but there is no way in hell 25 year old Elfrid Payton—6th year, 6th team in the NBA—has more potential than 21 year old Frankie. Elfrid had has his chances, he is what he is Good luck on your season; maybe look into a LASIK procedure if you get the chance ... What?? insert nick young looking to the side meme here —> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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