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2019-2020 Off-Season and Hot Stove Thread


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By this threads logic,  all teams not NYY and LAD should just mail it in.  "There's no way they're competing this year" is a bunch of nonsense.  Good thing the nats didn't think that way last year.  Boston is soft, grow a pair and get in the mix

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Happy Pitchers and Catchers Report Day to all! Not sure if this is the place to put this, but indulge me for a few minutes if you feel like it. I have to admit this is the fourth year I've gotten sent

Michael Schur, creator of Parks & Rec and The Good Place, blasts one into the bleachers: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1224882392369786880.html?refreshed=yes  

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2 hours ago, WahooManiac said:

By this threads logic,  all teams not NYY and LAD should just mail it in.  "There's no way they're competing this year" is a bunch of nonsense.  Good thing the nats didn't think that way last year.  Boston is soft, grow a pair and get in the mix

Bingo. 

Go look at last year's odds. On paper winners dont mean ****.

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I don’t know what all the fuss is about.  It isn’t like the Sox are in fire sale mode, this was more of a retooling, and they still have plenty of weapons to try to compete this year.  

If the price wasn’t right no doubt they keep Betts and focus on 2020 but Verdugo was a nice return, and shedding Price’s contract really made it a no brainer IMO.

The Nationals lost Bryce Harper and got nothing and still won the World Series ya know

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9 minutes ago, Weekday Warrior said:

 

The Nationals lost Bryce Harper and got nothing and still won the World Series ya know

 

Well they spent a 9 figure deal on a high caliber pitcher they did not have the year previously. So yeah, if they lost Betts and then got the equivalent of Patrick Corbin in free agency, it wouldn't be far behind this year.

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3 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Well they spent a 9 figure deal on a high caliber pitcher they did not have the year previously. So yeah, if they lost Betts and then got the equivalent of Patrick Corbin in free agency, it wouldn't be far behind this year.


Well the Sox are ahead of the curve on a strategy like that since they got both salary relief and a nice young hitter who won’t start arbitration until 2020.... the overarching point remains that this was far from a dismantling even if they don’t spend on a free agent in this year specifically

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5 hours ago, MrBrown said:

I mean its only the beginning of February.  I'm not writing his season off because he said a couple weeks ago he hasn't been doing baseball activities.  its possible he won't be ready opening day but we'll see.  I'm sure he's just been taking it easy in the offseason.  No reason to rush it.  Last year Judge was out for 2 months with a similar injury.

Yep.  Also teams exchange medical records etc.  The Sox wouldn't make the trade if they were worried about Verdugo's back and hadn't looked into the situation deeply first.

And see MrBrown how much fun it is here when Yankee and Red Sox fans get together and agree on stuff.  (I'm actually kind of serious for once.  This isn't some fan boy site.  It is fantasy baseball where all teams are respected and all good players appreciated).

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44 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Well they spent a 9 figure deal on a high caliber pitcher they did not have the year previously. So yeah, if they lost Betts and then got the equivalent of Patrick Corbin in free agency, it wouldn't be far behind this year.

2021 FA

Pitchers
Trevor Bauer (30)
James Paxton (32)
Mike Minor (33)
Jake Odorizzi (31)
Marcus Stroman (29)
Robbie Ray (29)
Masahino Tanaka (32)
Jose Quintina (32)

Hitters
Mookie Betts (28)
JT Realmuto (30)
Marcus Semien (30)
George Springer (31)
DJL (32)
Anderelton Simmons (31)
Joc Pederson (28)
Didi Grergious (31)
Michael Brantley (33)
Justin Turner (36)
Nelson Cruz (40)

 

Bauer or Paxton?

Maybe they should sign this Mookie Betts guy? Real good and only useful hitter under 30!!!

Edited by Slatykamora
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40 minutes ago, Weekday Warrior said:


Well the Sox are ahead of the curve on a strategy like that since they got both salary relief and a nice young hitter who won’t start arbitration until 2020.... the overarching point remains that this was far from a dismantling even if they don’t spend on a free agent in this year specifically

 

It's trading a once-in-a-generation player, the likes of whom has never been traded before.  That's only ahead of the curve if you don't give a **** about your team putting out the most talented roster it can.  I'd rather watch him on the Sox one more year - a year the COULD have competed for a championship but now we'll never know- than trade him for literal pennies on the dollar.  **** rooting for teams having salary-controlled players.  That's complete crap.  I'd rather watch the Red Sox play to win in 2020.  

Yes I am very bitter right now.  

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13 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

2021 FA

Pitchers
Trevor Bauer (30)
James Paxton (32)
Mike Minor (33)
Jake Odorizzi (31)
Marcus Stroman (29)
Robbie Ray (29)
Masahino Tanaka (32)
Jose Quintina (32)

Hitters
Mookie Betts (28)
JT Realmuto (30)
Marcus Semien (30)
George Springer (31)
DJL (32)
Anderelton Simmons (31)
Joc Pederson (28)
Didi Grergious (31)
Michael Brantley (33)
Justin Turner (36)
Nelson Cruz (40)

 

Bauer or Paxton?

Maybe they should sign this Mookie Betts guy? Real good and only useful hitter under 30!!!


Hmm that is a pretty bleak outlook and does indeed raise the question what they are saving their money for...

But, the landscape can change shift pretty quickly with pitchers at least, Patrick Corbin didn’t really establish himself as a valuable 2019 FA until his 2018 season, for example..

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As a Sox fan I hate to see Mookie go but let's be honest with ourselves, although the Sox had an offense that could compete with the best their pitching as it stood entering the season was not going to win them a WS. Also, let's say we kept Mookie, he already said he wants to be a FA so our chances of resigning him for the 12 year $400+ million he is asking for are slim to none. I wouldn't want my team to pay anyone that much money anyway. I think this was the right move for the team to continue to compete and build for the future. At least we got something for him than letting him walk after this season with nothing in return. 

Edited by BostonCajun
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Just now, Weekday Warrior said:


Hmm that is a pretty bleak outlook and does indeed raise the question what they are saving their money for...

But, the landscape can change shift pretty quickly with pitchers at least, Patrick Corbin didn’t really establish himself as a valuable 2019 FA until his 2018 season, for example..

 

Stop.  There's no question.  They are saving money for John Henry's bank account.  Pleast don't act like there's any baseball-related benefit to the Sox in this trade.  There isn't.

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3 minutes ago, Weekday Warrior said:


Hmm that is a pretty bleak outlook and does indeed raise the question what they are saving their money for...

 

 

2 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

 

Stop.  There's no question.  They are saving money for John Henry's bank account.  Pleast don't act like there's any baseball-related benefit to the Sox in this trade.  There isn't.

Devers ? Benintendi ? Erod ? 

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25 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

It's trading a once-in-a-generation player, the likes of whom has never been traded before.  That's only ahead of the curve if you don't give a **** about your team putting out the most talented roster it can.  I'd rather watch him on the Sox one more year - a year the COULD have competed for a championship but now we'll never know- than trade him for literal pennies on the dollar.  **** rooting for teams having salary-controlled players.  That's complete crap.  I'd rather watch the Red Sox play to win in 2020.  

Yes I am very bitter right now.  

Mookie wasn't a once in a generation player.  Not even close.  Anyone who watched Red Sox games saw that last season.  A really good player but he isn't going to be the next Mike Trout with consistently great play.  More like Harper with up and down seasons though hopefully for him not as extreme.

And the Sox haven't thrown in the towel.  They can compete this season but win it all is a pipe dream and one wonders what is in the pipe they are smoking to boot.  Realists knows that.  With this move they have announced in effect that they won't be some one year wonder club and out.  They are saving and rebuilding the farm which is 100% crucial and gearing for up for dynasty ball. 

Bloom is doing this right.  Look what he did in TB with almost no resources and support.  This is the guy to take the Sox to the next level.  To suddenly have Verdugo and Graterol going forward this next decade instead of nothing as well as save the Sox from drastic draft pick and international pool money penalties is like hitting a grand slam.  A real ace professional move.

14 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

Stop.  There's no question.  They are saving money for John Henry's bank account.  Pleast don't act like there's any baseball-related benefit to the Sox in this trade.  There isn't.

And stop with the John Henry is some cheapskate owner trying to pad out his pockets total crap.  He has spent more money in baseball for years now than anyone else.  Period!  He has paid the monetary penalties of the luxury tax and not uttered a word of complaint.  But his money cannot save the Sox from the REAL luxury tax penalties I mentioned above.  Those two penalties could destroy the Sox long term and make them also rans to the Yankees for years to come.  Also you want to keep Devers?  No way they could if Mookie was kept long term.  As a Red Sox fan you want any of that?

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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11 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

And stop with the John Henry is some cheapskate owner trying to pad out his pockets total crap.  He has spent more money in baseball for years now than anyone else.  

 

You're right. He's 100% not cheap. Who else pays $192 million in a throw in the towel year? Nobody has ever done that. 

Edited by brockpapersizer
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29 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

 

Devers ? Benintendi ? Erod ? 

 

27 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Mookie wasn't a once in a generation player.  Not even close.  Anyone who watched Red Sox games saw that last season.  A really good player but he isn't going to be the next Mike Trout with consistently great play.  More like Harper with up and down seasons though hopefully for him not as extreme.

And the Sox haven't thrown in the towel.  They can compete this season but win it all is a pipe dream and one wonders what is in the pipe they are smoking to boot.  Realists knows that.  With this move they have announced in effect that they won't be some one year wonder club and out.  They are saving and rebuilding the farm which is 100% crucial and gearing for up for dynasty ball. 

Bloom is doing this right.  Look what he did in TB with almost no resources and support.  This is the guy to take the Sox to the next level.  To suddenly have Verdugo and Graterol going forward this next decade instead of nothing as well as save the Sox from drastic draft pick and international pool money penalties is like hitting a grand slam.  A real ace professional move.

And stop with the John Henry is some cheapskate owner trying to pad out his pockets total crap.  He has spent more money in baseball for years now than anyone else.  Period!  He has paid the monetary penalties of the luxury tax and not uttered a word of complaint.  But his money cannot save the Sox from the REAL luxury tax penalties I mentioned above.  Those two penalties could destroy the Sox long term and make them also rans to the Yankees for years to come.  Also you want to keep Devers?  No way they could if Mookie was kept long term.  As a Red Sox fan you want any of that?

 

Yeah we all know how concerned you are about the Sox the 12 million a year they were paying in luxury tax.  Totally worth mailing in a season to avoid that!  I'm done going around in circles, let's just agree to disagree: I care about the team I root for trying to win; you care about their profit margins.  That's ok!  

And, I didn't say Henry was cheap, I said this trade was made to benefit his bank account.  One can be true without the other.

Devers contract could replace JDs which would be off the books by then.  The idea a team that takes in $516 million a year PLUS whatever it is they make off NESN can't afford Betts and Devers is the most laughable of all the stupid Sox ownership garbage you regurgitate on here.  

Edited by OaksterDan
expounding on BBTs level of willfull ignorance
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5 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

you care about their profit margins.  That's ok!  

 

This is a pretty uncharitable reading.  It's possible as a fan to believe that a move that improves the team's financial flexibility is better for the team's outlook in the coming years than paying to win now.  I disagree in this instance, and think some fans underestimate how profitable teams are based on the misinformation they put out about their revenues, but that's not the fans' fault, it's the teams for being coy / evasive about their profitability.

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18 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

 It's possible as a fan to believe that a move that improves the team's financial flexibility is better for the team's outlook in the coming years than paying to win now. 

 

I agree with this, but I think some fans overestimate the value in financial flexibility, which to me is the ultimate disconnect here.  If you cheer for financial flexibility at a disproportionate rate to what it actually is worth, you are essentially cheering for profit margins without knowing it.

 

In the NBA financial flexibility is much more important, and even there it's overrated. The Knicks took drastic steps to ensure financial flexibility in 2010. Great decade they had.

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9 hours ago, brooklynfinest42 said:

but how did the red sox not even get one of Lux or May? i knew getting both was bit much but you walk away with out one of those guys? Yikes.

They got Graterol. Zero percent of getting Lux or May. 

Edited by 2ndCitySox
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1 hour ago, OaksterDan said:

 

It's trading a once-in-a-generation player, the likes of whom has never been traded before.  That's only ahead of the curve if you don't give a **** about your team putting out the most talented roster it can.  I'd rather watch him on the Sox one more year - a year the COULD have competed for a championship but now we'll never know- than trade him for literal pennies on the dollar.  **** rooting for teams having salary-controlled players.  That's complete crap.  I'd rather watch the Red Sox play to win in 2020.  

Yes I am very bitter right now.  

Betts is not a once-in-generation player. 

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I love the range of reactions in this thread. 

To summarize:

Dodgers and Red Sox should both be jumping both for joy and off a bridge. 

Edited by 2ndCitySox
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Just now, 2ndCitySox said:

Betts is not a once-in-generation player. 

Agreed. He's a probably a top 10 player in MLB. Trout is a once in a generation player. By definition, that is about it.

"Generational" and "Elite" are the two most over used terms on this board.

 

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According to USA Today's Bob Nightengale, Ross Stripling is being traded to the Angels along with Joc Pederson.

 

Luis Rengifo will go to the Dodgers along with two prospects, per Nightengale's sources. ESPN's Kiley McDaniel reported Tuesday that the Angels would be getting Dodgers outfield prospect Andy Pages, but it's unclear if that is still an element of this deal.

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