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2019-2020 Off-Season and Hot Stove Thread


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8 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

It's still only a tactic for terribly run teams/fantasy owners do. 

 

 

I don't understand how leaking a agreed to trade is something that terribly run teams do. Let's walk through the timeline as I'm not seeing how this makes Boston a terribly run org.

-Trade agreed to and details (players included) shared with public.

-Medical reports come back iffy, team asks for more to be included in order to compensate, which is WELL within their rights and the smart thing to do if there is something truly iffy about the medical reports.

The ONLY thing worth debating is what was actually in those medical reports. No one except the organizations know the answer to that. But none of this and I mean NONE of this, paints the Red Sox as an awfully run organization.

 

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This is a weird trade. The medical reports are normally done before the announced trade, Then u have the actual physicals where issues can crop up and threaten trades. Not sure what kind of red flag they saw limiting him to a RP workload. Gotta be uncomfortable since the Joc Peterson trade hinged on this trade. I assume the commissioner has to step in quick. An arbitrator would take too long and never heard of an arbitrator doing a 3 way anyhow. Every player in these 2 trades still have to pass a physical which can lead to more hijinx and mayhem.

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17 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

The ONLY thing worth debating is what was actually in those medical reports. No one except the organizations know the answer to that. But none of this and I mean NONE of this, paints the Red Sox as an awfully run organization.

Brusdar medical reports are well known.  
 

The Red Sox developed reservations about Graterol after examining his medicals, and were denied when they asked the Twins to include another high-quality prospect in return. It's unclear what caught the Red Sox off guard, as Graterol has a known injury history that includes Tommy John surgery and a shoulder impingement. It's also unclear why the Red Sox asked the Twins for more, considering the Red Sox weren't sending any players to Minnesota in the swap.

Graterol, 21, has thrown more than 100 innings in a season once. In addition to his past physical woes, there are concerns he'll end up in the bullpen due to his skill set. He has a good fastball-slider combination, but he has a lacking changeup and suboptimal command, due in part to a high-effort delivery.

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29 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Agreed.

It's difficult to get really good prospects included when the other team is having to take on Price.

 

I think the actual difficult part is Betts for just 1 year.  To punt .a guy foor 6-7 years your window needs too be this year and you have to have prospect depth.  Dodgers really the only fit. Padres might have a shot if they wanted to, but their window might be more next year.  

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19 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

 

The Red Sox developed reservations about Graterol after examining his medicals, and were denied when they asked the Twins to include another high-quality prospect in return.

 

What I don't understand is did they want one of their good prospects in addition to Graterol.  If you were going to do the deal for Graterol, why would it take a second Graterol level player now? Shouldn't it be just a different prospect or a much lesser one added on? They aren't going to get Graterol+ Balovizic or someone in that tier.

 

@ThreadKiller, you can say this is just the result of the medical records of Graterol that the Red Sox had no idea about if you want. It's possible, but more than "random" people are speculating. Even Heyman is suggesting blowback is part of it. I related this to when the bad owner in your fantasy league makes a horrible trade, everyone tells him that, and then he gets to try to get his own trade vetoed and/or restructured. Like, it's still better to veto your own horrible trade than go through with it from an ownership perspective, but to me it certainly casts doubt on competency. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

 

What I don't understand is did they want one of their good prospects in addition to Graterol.  If you were going to do the deal for Graterol, why would it take a second Graterol level player now? Shouldn't it be just a different prospect or a much lesser one added on? They aren't going to get Graterol+ Balovizic or someone in that tier.

 

@ThreadKiller, you can say this is just the result of the medical records of Graterol that the Red Sox had no idea about if you want. It's possible, but more than "random" people are speculating. Even Heyman is suggesting blowback is part of it. I related this to when the bad owner in your fantasy league makes a horrible trade, everyone tells him that, and then he gets to try to get his own trade vetoed and/or restructured. Like, it's still better to veto your own horrible trade than go through with it from an ownership perspective, but to me it certainly casts doubt on competency. 

 

 

The Boston Wafflers 

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1 hour ago, BxBOMBERs28 said:

The Boston Wafflers 

 

They can't even rip a bandaid off properly.  Just get it done at this point.  Still no manager 4 days before spring training too!  Chaim is shaking in his bloomers.  Might have bitten off more than he can chew, Boston is not exactly the same low-pressure baseball environment as Tampa.  

 

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3 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

I don't understand how leaking a agreed to trade is something that terribly run teams do. Let's walk through the timeline as I'm not seeing how this makes Boston a terribly run org.

-Trade agreed to and details (players included) shared with public.

-Medical reports come back iffy, team asks for more to be included in order to compensate, which is WELL within their rights and the smart thing to do if there is something truly iffy about the medical reports.

The ONLY thing worth debating is what was actually in those medical reports. No one except the organizations know the answer to that. But none of this and I mean NONE of this, paints the Red Sox as an awfully run organization.

So true.  On the contrary they found out about the damaged goods before the trade was finalized.  Same thing with Drew Pomeranz.  The whole med stuff is working like it should work.

59 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

They can't even rip a bandaid off properly.  Just get it done at this point.  Still no manager 4 days before spring training too!  Chaim is shaking in his bloomers.  Might have bitten off more than he can chew, Boston is not exactly the same low-pressure baseball environment as Tampa. 

Please try and keep up.  The Red Sox announced their manager 2 days ago.  Ron Roenicke who was the Bench Coach.  Everyone knew he would become the manager if formerly cleared of having any part in the alleged sign stealing scandal.  They HAD to wait until the report was known to them.  To name him before they were 110% sure would have been insane.  Now not only was he cleared but their sign stealing seemed to be not much at all in the end.  They will get a light fine at most.

And Bloom is the one behind trading Archer and getting back Meadows, Glasnow and Baz for him.  Yet you seem to think he is an idiot?   Yet you are the one who can't handle pressure even when it isn't on you by getting all emotional and out of control like a chicken with their head cut off screaming "just get it done" as in let your team get screwed over?   Come on, man.

What they had before the trade were all the stats and analyticals in the book.  Everything ever written about the guy.  Ever video ever made.  Scouts watching him live.  What Minnesota told them about his health.  What they didn't have was the actual under the hood meds.  That is why they are required before a trade can become official.  They are very very important, duh.

And yes my money is on Bloom and what he is doing totally.  If the Twins were trying to test him as the new guy he showed them no one was going to do that.  After years of trying the Red Sox have finally gotten a first rate GM.

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This could be a smart move by both parties.  The Twins have been the entire problem with the trade so cut out the problem.  The Dodgers are highly motivated to make this deal and have the prospects themselves and the Red Sox have some leverage because the Padres would indeed be more than happy to jump back in:

Quote

Mark Feinsand of MLB.com reports that the Red Sox are focused on getting a deal done with the Dodgers, rather than resurrecting the three-team deal with the Twins.

Feinsand notes that a separate deal could still be done between the Dodgers and Twins regarding Kenta Maeda. If the Dodgers and Red Sox can't work out a deal, other teams like the Padres could jump back in. No deal is expected to be finalized until Sunday at the earliest.

Source: Mark Feinsand on Twitter                    Feb 8, 2020, 6:50 PM ET

 

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1 minute ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

This could be a smart move by both parties.  The Twins have been the entire problem with the trade so cut out the problem.  The Dodgers are highly motivated to make this deal and have the prospects themselves and the Red Sox have some leverage because the Padres would indeed be more than happy to jump back in:

 

Twins have been the problem? What are you smoking? Red Sox got cold feet and made up this medical bs. Let's not be naive. I love Bloom too. Wish the Mets hired him but this is on him.

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3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

This could be a smart move by both parties.  The Twins have been the entire problem with the trade so cut out the problem.  The Dodgers are highly motivated to make this deal and have the prospects themselves and the Red Sox have some leverage because the Padres would indeed be more than happy to jump back in:

 

Guess you were wrong about that twins report being false then little buddy.

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Red sox cheaters and cowards backing out since they knew they got bent over. All teams should never trade with them until they fire this pathetic front office. Trying to use a medical excuse to back out with their tail between their legs. Dodgers better not give them one extra thing. Dodgers should ask for more for having to deal with this moron.

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6 minutes ago, duke of queens said:

Twins have been the problem? What are you smoking? Red Sox got cold feet and made up this medical bs. Let's not be naive. I love Bloom too. Wish the Mets hired him but this is on him.

They didn't make up the medicals part. They just used as an excuse for changing his projection from SP to RP. When everyone else knew he had RP projection from the start.

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3 minutes ago, duke of queens said:

Twins have been the problem? What are you smoking? Red Sox got cold feet and made up this medical bs. Let's not be naive. I love Bloom too. Wish the Mets hired him but this is on him.

They didn't get cold feet any more than they did with Pomeranz.  Would anyone buy a used car before looking under the hood?  That is what the meds are for.  You can't look under the hood until then.  There have been any number of trades stopped because of that.  Like the same team in the same year that tried to hide Pomeraz' true condition also did that with anotehr team when SD tried to ship more damaged goods but to Miami that time.  Miami sent him back after their meds.

2 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

Guess you were wrong about that twins report being false then little buddy.

No the blurb said that it may or may not happen.  Not that it did happen.  And the current blurb says the Sox seem to be leaning to make it just a two way trade.  The false rumor was that Minnesota had officially pulled out when they hadn't and still haven't officially at this point even though they are fading from the scene quickly now.

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19 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

So true.  On the contrary they found out about the damaged goods before the trade was finalized.  Same thing with Drew Pomeranz.  The whole med stuff is working like it should work.

Please try and keep up.  The Red Sox announced their manager 2 days ago.  Ron Roenicke who was the Bench Coach.  Everyone knew he would become the manager if formerly cleared of having any part in the alleged sign stealing scandal.  They HAD to wait until the report was known to them.  To name him before they were 110% sure would have been insane.  Now not only was he cleared but their sign stealing seemed to be not much at all in the end.  They will get a light fine at most.

And Bloom is the one behind trading Archer and getting back Meadows, Glasnow and Baz for him.  Yet you seem to think he is an idiot?   Yet you are the one who can't handle pressure even when it isn't on you by getting all emotional and out of control like a chicken with their head cut off screaming "just get it done" as in let your team get screwed over?   Come on, man.

What they had before the trade were all the stats and analyticals in the book.  Everything ever written about the guy.  Ever video ever made.  Scouts watching him live.  What Minnesota told them about his health.  What they didn't have was the actual under the hood meds.  That is why they are required before a trade can become official.  They are very very important, duh.

And yes my money is on Bloom and what he is doing totally.  If the Twins were trying to test him as the new guy he showed them no one was going to do that.  After years of trying the Red Sox have finally gotten a first rate GM.

 

They announced their manager two days ago?  If you're going to be condescending you might want to at least make sure you have your facts up-to-date yourself.  Per The Athletic yesterday afternoon:

"It’s been various levels of chaos right up to late Friday morning when the Boston Globe reported Ron Roenicke would be hired as Cora’s replacement, only to have the Red Sox issue a rare public statement denying that they’ve made a decision. Separately, a team source told The Athletic that the team has made no managerial offer, and that the team can’t possibly know its options until the league’s investigation is complete."

Lolz (paid content)

Try again boomer.

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4 minutes ago, FantasyGeek2018 said:

Red sox cheaters and cowards backing out since they knew they got bent over. All teams should never trade with them until they fire this pathetic front office. Trying to use a medical excuse to back out with their tail between their legs. Dodgers better not give them one extra thing. Dodgers should ask for more for having to deal with this moron.

LOL!!!  Who gave a false indication of the health of their pitcher they were trying to trade?  Red Sox were not the shady ones.  They were the do diligence one.

And digging yourself in yet deeper I see, Oakster. 

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Problem is it appears they still wanted to get him + more. Instead of simply agreeing on a different prospect(s). Unless i'm mistaken?

Twins still obviously like Graterol. So they had no interest in selling 50 cents on the dollar. If you tell me something is worth less and I still like it? You need to ask for something different. Don't waste my time.

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11 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

They didn't get cold feet any more than they did with Pomeranz.  Would anyone buy a used car before looking under the hood?  That is what the meds are for.  You can't look under the hood until then.  There have been any number of trades stopped because of that.  Like the same team in the same year that tried to hide Pomeraz' true condition also did that with anotehr team when SD tried to ship more damaged goods but to Miami that time.  Miami sent him back after their meds.

No the blurb said that it may or may not happen.  Not that it did happen.  And the current blurb says the Sox seem to be leaning to make it just a two way trade.  The false rumor was that Minnesota had officially pulled out when they hadn't and still haven't officially at this point even though they are fading from the scene quickly now.

Stop bringing up Pomeranz. Different heirarchy, different players, different trade. If Graterdal was in fact damaged good why would Sox still want him in the deal plus another? 

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12 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

LOL!!!  Who gave a false indication of the health of their pitcher they were trying to trade?  Red Sox were not the shady ones.  They were the do diligence one.

And digging yourself in yet deeper I see, Oakster. 

 

Digging myself in deeper?  Even though you have now been proven wrong, by the Red Sox themselves?  You conveniently forgot to address that I guess.  They literally said, yesterday, "we have no manager yet."  Interesting how you immediately switch to rhetoric once the facts prove you wrong.  

It's ok to be wrong boomer.  It's even ok to admit to being wrong.  The Red Sox currently have no manager.  

 

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50 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Yet you are the one who can't handle pressure even when it isn't on you by getting all emotional and out of control like a chicken with their head cut off

maybe I am miss interpreting but damnit I see you’re the one getting .......

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7 minutes ago, duke of queens said:

Stop bringing up Pomeranz. Different heirarchy, different players, different trade. If Graterdal was in fact damaged good why would Sox still want him in the deal plus another? 

Because they said he could be a reliever.  Not that he couldn't pitch.  Just that he couldn't last as a starter and the innings they throw given his meds and the Twins had shopped him to them as a starter.

 

2 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

Digging myself in deeper?  Even though you have now been proven wrong, by the Red Sox themselves?  You conveniently forgot to address that I guess.  They literally said, yesterday, "we have no manager yet." 

Then why was every single Boston sportscast announcing Roenicke as the manager and discussing same YESTERDAY.  I saw WBZ Channel 4's (CBS Boston affiliate) coverage on their 6 pm news yesterday where they had detailed coverage and comments including from Gammons even and the whole thing.  And one station announced on the 11 PM news the day before even.  The Red Sox have already gotten their feedback from MLB he is in the clear.  And the report originally of his hsi hiring was broken by the Boston Globe.  You do know who owns the Globe, right?  John Henry.  The Globe wouldn't print the news unless they knew for certain it was true.

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