Chicago White Sox 2020 Outlook

[itslarry 107]

11 hours ago, 2ndCitySox said:

^ I'm more impatient than negative. I want to see things happening for this team to really have a chance at a playoff run (!) next year. I don't agree with Criptvills assessment that the Sox are one of the worst franchises (in any major sport). Its a positive sign that they actually had the highest bid on Wheeler. Its not their fault that he has a gf that preferred *gasp* Philly to Chicago because it was closer to Jersey. Your man just got $120M, boo, he can fly your a** to Jersey first class every damn day. 

Yeah what an a**, taking his gfs considerations (amd a beyter yeam lets be honest) over what some famtasy fans wanted. 

Chicago as a city is pretty harsh atm. People turning down $ not to play there has to be a sign. 

[CrypTviLL 833]

1 hour ago, itslarry said:

Yeah what an a**, taking his gfs considerations (amd a beyter yeam lets be honest) over what some famtasy fans wanted. 

Chicago as a city is pretty harsh atm. People turning down $ not to play there has to be a sign. 

Yup, I lived 7+ years in the city of Chicago... has some of the highest highs (mostly during spring/fall, and the summer is popping depending on weather) and also some of the lowest lows.

 

[CrypTviLL 833]

15 hours ago, handyandy86 said:

 

Why all the negativity in here?  It looks like the team is finally starting to pull out of the rebuild, a handful of young potential stars in the making, and just opened up the wallet big time for Grandal, along with picking up Mazara for a prospect.   

That graphic is also including some terrible periods pre-1950 before probably any of us were even born.  And as much as I also hate penny pinching owners, the last 2 years have been clear rebuilding years, which no team is going to be spending money on players when the objective is clearly to lose and develop MiLB talent.  

I'm a Jays fan, so I feel the pain of a small budget team that is "rebuilding" many more years than they are contending.  Unfortunately MLB is a league of have's and have-not's, where a handful of teams have a much larger budget than the rest.  Which to me ends up meaning that I have to celebrate the small victories, like the team signing lower tier FA's and developing some good internal talent.  Sox and Jays both look to be on the rise this year and going forward, so hopefully both can take that next step with the acquisitions they do make this off-season.  

Eh... I suppose from an outsider looking in you can say a lot of positive things.

As someone who has followed this team religiously during the offseasons the past few years, it's been pretty rough.

They completely botched last year trying to grab Machado and Harper. Now, I often yearn on this, maybe too much, but I can't believe any competent front office would do what they did. They let everyone know that they were going after Harper and Machado, almost daily.... they traded/bought/helped division rivals (cleveland -- by trading for Yonder Alonso) to try to "woo" machado into signing. Yet, at the end of the day, they wouldn't put the money on the table. They got completely embarassed.

Y. Grandal is a fine signing, im happy with that, but that's the largest signing ever in White Sox History. Ouch.

They signed Abreu to a bit of an absurd extension, and now tell us that some of that 'machado money' has gone to Grandal/Abreu. This is a team that is well below average payroll right now by like 45 million (that's including all the signings).

The owners are corrupt, the coaching staff is outdated and does not embrace the new analytical trend, and they can't sign a damn thing. This rebuild would have taken off with Machado or Harper. It would have gotten back on tracks with Wheeler. Now were stuck with probably signing s---y Keuchel and Ivan Nova... which is exactly what the White sox do .. they Dumpster dive.

 

Look at what the Phillies and Padres are doing, two organizations who are working their asses off and putting their money on the table. I'd be ecstatic if I were a fan of these teams.

It's an embarrassing organization (the White Sox), I've even tried to find new teams to root for, but at the end of the day, I don't have the passion for other teams like I do with the White sox due to childhood memories and all that. 

[CrypTviLL 833]

Also, on the Mazara trade... a lot of fans (like me) hated the deal on principle. It signaled the FO thought it was ok to pass on Ozuna/Castellanos to get a below average right fielder. 

On the outside, this looks like buying low on a player with a lot of potential. 

On the inside, it was typical white sox 101, avoiding spending the money on top free agents and instead dumpster diving.

 

[Sonny_D 1,962]

When’s Robert up? That’s all that really matters here. 

[jfazz23 2,530]

Gio Gonzalez!

 

theres your big time pitcher signing!

[2ndCitySox 4,460]

5 hours ago, CrypTviLL said:

Also, on the Mazara trade... a lot of fans (like me) hated the deal on principle. It signaled the FO thought it was ok to pass on Ozuna/Castellanos to get a below average right fielder. 

On the outside, this looks like buying low on a player with a lot of potential. 

On the inside, it was typical white sox 101, avoiding spending the money on top free agents and instead dumpster diving.

 

I'm ok with the Gio signing, since I'm assuming they aren't done. 

Mazara I'm warming up too. Castellanos is going to get too much $$$. Hes a good bat but sucks in the OF. Ozuna was probably the best of the options, but I think he is who he is (and will be overpaid too). 

That being said they can't be done. Its only December. 

[CrypTviLL 833]

5 hours ago, 2ndCitySox said:

Mazara I'm warming up too. Castellanos is going to get too much $$$. Hes a good bat but sucks in the OF. Ozuna was probably the best of the options, but I think he is who he is (and will be overpaid too). 

I *used* to feel this way on free agents, but the fact is that to get the guys you HAVE to overpay. It's just how its been.

Almost every SP that's gone is being overpaid it seems. The top hitters are all seemingly overpaid. But to get them, especially to get them to come to a shithole like the White Sox, you have to overpay. If you don't you settle for big signings like Gio Gonzalez. 

If the White Sox were in a really bad financial situation, or something, I'd totally get it -- but this team is ripening up and they continuously refuse to ignite it with a prime player. 

[2ndCitySox 4,460]

1 hour ago, CrypTviLL said:

I *used* to feel this way on free agents, but the fact is that to get the guys you HAVE to overpay. It's just how its been.

Almost every SP that's gone is being overpaid it seems. The top hitters are all seemingly overpaid. But to get them, especially to get them to come to a shithole like the White Sox, you have to overpay. If you don't you settle for big signings like Gio Gonzalez. 

If the White Sox were in a really bad financial situation, or something, I'd totally get it -- but this team is ripening up and they continuously refuse to ignite it with a prime player. 

Yeah you do, but I'm not going to get broken up about not overpaying for castellanos or ozuna. 

They tried to overpay wheeler. I'll give them that. 

[2ndCitySox 4,460]

Giolito

Keuchel

Kopech 

Lopez

Gio 

Cease

Rodon

Dunning

Looks like the makings of a professional rotation with some depth, but obviously the team needs Lopez and Cease to step it up. Kopech will be handled lightly, and Rodon will be a late season option. 

It wouldn't hurt for them to add another stable vet, whether via FA or trade 

[handyandy86 2,451]

On 12/19/2019 at 9:34 AM, CrypTviLL said:

Eh... I suppose from an outsider looking in you can say a lot of positive things.

As someone who has followed this team religiously during the offseasons the past few years, it's been pretty rough.

They completely botched last year trying to grab Machado and Harper. Now, I often yearn on this, maybe too much, but I can't believe any competent front office would do what they did. They let everyone know that they were going after Harper and Machado, almost daily.... they traded/bought/helped division rivals (cleveland -- by trading for Yonder Alonso) to try to "woo" machado into signing. Yet, at the end of the day, they wouldn't put the money on the table. They got completely embarassed.

Y. Grandal is a fine signing, im happy with that, but that's the largest signing ever in White Sox History. Ouch.

They signed Abreu to a bit of an absurd extension, and now tell us that some of that 'machado money' has gone to Grandal/Abreu. This is a team that is well below average payroll right now by like 45 million (that's including all the signings).

The owners are corrupt, the coaching staff is outdated and does not embrace the new analytical trend, and they can't sign a damn thing. This rebuild would have taken off with Machado or Harper. It would have gotten back on tracks with Wheeler. Now were stuck with probably signing s---y Keuchel and Ivan Nova... which is exactly what the White sox do .. they Dumpster dive.

 

Look at what the Phillies and Padres are doing, two organizations who are working their asses off and putting their money on the table. I'd be ecstatic if I were a fan of these teams.

It's an embarrassing organization (the White Sox), I've even tried to find new teams to root for, but at the end of the day, I don't have the passion for other teams like I do with the White sox due to childhood memories and all that. 

 

Personally, I'm perplexed by what Philly and San Diego are calling "rebuilds".  Maybe it will end up working, but the whole point of a rebuild is to essentially tank for a few years, collect up a bumper crop of prospects, and when they grow close to taking the next step into being stars, you start to surround them with veteran talent.  Then you have a team core that is made up of cost controlled assets you developed, and can fill in the gaps with free agents, and still have a payroll that is somewhere around the luxury tax line.  

The Padres have Tatis and a couple decent SP prospects that are close, and have basically said "screw it" and just started buying free agents.  Why did they need to suck for years if that was the game plan?  They could have just started spending recklessly right away.  The Hosmer contract looks terrible already, and despite paying up for Machado, they still lost more games than the White Sox last year.  Now they're coming off a 70 win season with the 11th-highest payroll in MLB, and trading some of the young talent they have for even more "paid" veterans like Pham.  How much money do they have to spend to get to .500?

The Phillies are in a similar boat.  6th highest payroll as of today, and they still only finished .500 last year.  They had a long and frustrating rebuild for their fanbase, and all they have to show for it is Aaron Nola and Hoskins.  The McCutcheon and Arrieta contracts already look terrible.  Paying up for Harper didn't get them a lot closer to contending.  And again, this is something they could have done years ago, if the whole "rebuild" was just to decide to start spending money and buy a roster.  

Looking at teams that have come out of a rebuild successfully, they actually developed their own talent.  The Astros have ended up with a huge payroll and the salaries on a lot of these guys has gone up recently, but they kicked it off with players like Bregman, Altuve, Correa, Springer, etc. and then adding pieces to their core.  The Cubs finally winning a WS was based on them developing and identifying cheap talent and then adding to it as well.  

I'm starting to get off track here a bit, but my point is, adding Harper or Machado wasn't making the Sox a playoff team last year, and I'd be happier with how Moncada, Jimenez, hopefully Robert, and the young SP's are developing versus wishing the front office just spent money hand over fist on very expensive players that won't put the team over the top.  Seems like good timing now to start adding complementary pieces like Grandal, and being tied to Keuchel for 3 years comes with a lot lower risk than 5 years of Wheeler IMO.  And if Giolito and Kopech don't develop into good starters, then the difference between Wheeler and Keuchel isn't going to help much.  Jays are in a similar boat with everything riding on the development of players like Vlad, Bichette, Biggio, Pearson, etc., and are starting to add complementary pieces like Ryu on manageable deals.  Seems like a smart game plan to me.  If the youngsters develop like they did for the Astros, then you put all your chips in and go for broke.  If they flame out then all the FA's aren't going to help you.

[2ndCitySox 4,460]

Opening day lineup per rosterresource.com 

Yoan Moncada (3B)

Tim Anderson (SS)

Jose Abreu (1B)

Yasmani Grandal (C)

Edwin Encarnacion (DH)

Eloy Jimenez (OF) 

Nomar Mazara (OF)

Leury Garcia (OF) - holding a spot for Robert

Danny Mendick (2B)- holding a spot for Madrigal 

 

Dis I like.

 

 

[meh2 3,174]

8 hours ago, 2ndCitySox said:

Opening day lineup per rosterresource.com 

Yoan Moncada (3B)

Tim Anderson (SS)

Jose Abreu (1B)

Yasmani Grandal (C)

Edwin Encarnacion (DH)

Eloy Jimenez (OF) 

Nomar Mazara (OF)

Leury Garcia (OF) - holding a spot for Robert

Danny Mendick (2B)- holding a spot for Madrigal 

 

Dis I like.

 

 

After all the money spent this offseason I’d really hope they give Robert and Madrigal a legit opportunity to make the team out of spring training. They’re playoff contenders and every game matters now. I hope to see this lineup come opening day:

This looks like a top 5 lineup now and I’ll be grabbing lots of White Sox shares this year.

Edited December 26, 2019 by meh2

[2ndCitySox 4,460]

^ yeah that's very possible. Allegedly Robert already has an extension offer on the table. If he signs one like Eloy did then he will 100% be the opening day guy. Also, if Bryant wins his time manipulation grievance (unlikely), then both guys will likely be up ASAP too.

 

[jonninho 174]

If health permits, this is looking like a division winning team to me... The Indians will be much weaker with the loss of Kluber (altho he wasnt much of a part of the team last year) and the potential loss of Lindor. The Twins will still be solid, but i do proceed with caution because of the juiced ball. How much will it change? if at all.. they are a homer or bust type team and when looking at the line up the White Sox are going to put out there, it just seems to me they can attack the pitcher in so many more ways.

[The Big Bat Theory 7,360]

So is Zach Collins now the forgotten man?  Seems he is the 3rd string catcher and the 2nd string DH now.  Will he be trade bait?

Also looks like the White Sox are taking a good, hard look at Puig now.  Are they having buyer's regret already with Mazara?

[sleepysock 811]

1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

So is Zach Collins now the forgotten man?  Seems he is the 3rd string catcher and the 2nd string DH now.  Will he be trade bait?

Also looks like the White Sox are taking a good, hard look at Puig now.  Are they having buyer's regret already with Mazara?

I think he gets another year of atbats in AAA and a chance to inherit DH/backup C from EE and McCann in 2021. Guys will inevitably miss games also so I'm sure he'll get 150+ MLB PAs somehow or another.

But yeah, he's likely not breaking camp with the team at this point.

[2ndCitySox 4,460]

2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

So is Zach Collins now the forgotten man?  Seems he is the 3rd string catcher and the 2nd string DH now.  Will he be trade bait?

Also looks like the White Sox are taking a good, hard look at Puig now.  Are they having buyer's regret already with Mazara?

I don't think they sign any other OF types, but even if they are, I can't see why they'd have any buyers remorse from mazara after a couple weeks in the offseason

[jfazz23 2,530]

15 hours ago, meh2 said:

After all the money spent this offseason I’d really hope they give Robert and Madrigal a legit opportunity to make the team out of spring training. They’re playoff contenders and every game matters now. I hope to see this lineup come opening day:

This looks like a top 5 lineup now and I’ll be grabbing lots of White Sox shares this year.

 

not if EE plays like he did in the postseason.

[TribeFoo 1,364]

As a Tribe fan I'm fearing this team more and more each day. My gut says they're still a year away, but it's hard not to like the moves they've made. Seems like the kind of team that will hang 10 on you when you least expect it. 1-6 of that order is legit.

[supac720 352]

Great lineup for fantasy purposes but that defense could be brutal irl.

[Tommy Lee Jones 577]

22 hours ago, jfazz23 said:

 

not if EE plays like he did in the postseason.

 

Not surprised by this post.

There are a whole lot of stooopid Yankees fans on twitter going on about how he failed in 22 plate appearances against the Astros, and therefore, he is damaged goods.  Lots of irreversible brain damage it looks like.

[2ndCitySox 4,460]

2 hours ago, supac720 said:

Great lineup for fantasy purposes but that defense could be brutal irl.

Madrigal and Robert will be huge defensive upgrades. But overall, it's not good. Hopefully Anderson can take a step forward and either Eloy or Mazara figure out how to play OF.

[Golden Spikes 2,041]

3 hours ago, 2ndCitySox said:

Madrigal and Robert will be huge defensive upgrades. But overall, it's not good. Hopefully Anderson can take a step forward and either Eloy or Mazara figure out how to play OF.

thats the biggest thing, they are fielding a bunch of DH's

 

[Tommy Lee Jones 577]

As long as you’re solid up the middle, there’s a lot that you can hide on the corners.  Timmay throws a wrench into that a bit with his wild throws.  Maybe they can bring Kareem Abdul Jabbar out of retirement and have him play 1B.