2020 MLB Sign Stealing Discussion

[StevieStats 3,857]

4 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

That is not "policing."  That is vigilantism at it's worse and just plain stupid.  I am sick of idiotic caveman behavior in baseball.

Well, I mean yes... Players policing themselves is literally the definition of what a vigilante is lol 😆

vig·i·lan·te

/ˌvijəˈlan(t)ē/

noun

1. a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

    

You say vigilantism as if it's a bad thing. When its literally just players policing themselves and holding each other accountable because the MLB obviously had zero interest in holding a single player accountable.

"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out. It's a struggle for supremacy, a survival of the fittest."

-Ty Cobb

[The Big Bat Theory 7,534]

7 minutes ago, StevieStats said:

Well, I mean yes... Players policing themselves is literally the definition of what a vigilante is lol 😆

vig·i·lan·te

/ˌvijəˈlan(t)ē/

noun

1. a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

    

You say vigilantism as if it's a bad thing. When its literally just players policing themselves and holding each other accountable because the MLB obviously had zero interest in holding a single player accountable.

"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out. It's a struggle for supremacy, a survival of the fittest."

-Ty Cobb

Yet another reason why I hate Ty Cobb.  What a complete jackass he was.

And yes vigilantism is a bad thing.  A very bad thing.  That's a no brainer.

Edited January 19, 2020 by The Big Bat Theory

[duke of queens 1,063]

3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Yet another reason why I hate Ty Cobb.  What a complete jackass he was.

And yes vigilantism is a bad thing.  A very bad thing.  That's a no brainer.

So BBT you think fighting should be banned in hockey?

[The Big Bat Theory 7,534]

59 minutes ago, duke of queens said:

So BBT you think fighting should be banned in hockey?

OT:  Absolutely.  Not only is it caveman gruntsville but it is also looks totally corny and silly there.  International hockey is so much better than the NHL.

[duke of queens 1,063]

9 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

OT:  Absolutely.  Not only is it caveman gruntsville but it is also looks totally corny and silly there.  International hockey is so much better than the NHL.

I feel that retaliation and fear of retaliation has its place in both baseball and hockey. Cant have guys throwing 100 mph feeling free to plunk someone without a fear of one of their players getting hit as well. Same in hockey, the game is way too physical and players should have to think twice about taking runs at or leaving sticks high. Penalties/misconducts not enough of an enforcement. Fear of retaliation polices this somewhat and has forever. And for the record the fighting has subsided considerably in the NHL do to it being a little less physical(more speed and skill) and teams just cant carry a one dimensional goon anymore. But I still think it needs to be there in some capacity.

[GC Tacos 151]

7 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

OT:  Absolutely.  Not only is it caveman gruntsville but it is also looks totally corny and silly there.  International hockey is so much better than the NHL.

Calm down, there’s nothing wrong with players policing themselves. If you don’t like that then fine, but it proves you don’t like intricacies of baseball. Maybe look for a new sport? 
 

Second, it’s obvious you don’t watch international hockey. If something needs to be addressed they take it in their own hands. The only difference is the suspensions after the fact. 
 

Lastly, I think if every team threw at the lead off batter for the Astros it would send a clear message. I wouldn’t mind seeing a few of them lose out on money or career length after they caused the same to opposing players. 

[BMcP 8,609]

2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

The catcher should have the buzzer keypad in something like a harden hand warmer sleeve type of device attached to his chest protector that hides his hand and where he can slip his hand into and buzz the pitcher what to throw.

That would be some keypad...why not just give him a smartphone and let him stand up behind the plate and hide it close to the vest while he typed in pitch type, location, etc.

[jonninho 174]

5 hours ago, 2ndCitySox said:

While I love sports in general, baseball has always been my passion. I played little league, collected baseball cards, reenacted the Kirk Gibson 88 world series home run arm pump, owned multiple Nintendo baseball games, read fangraphs articles religiously, develop nerdy spreadsheets for fantasy baseball (the only fantasy sport I play), and follow more news about the game than I should. This whole sign stealing thing is really disheartening to me. I was finally over the PED issues, then this comes into fruition. I'm so jaded over the game right now. It's sad. I hope MLB can fix this problem, but considering that 2 of the last 3 championships have been implicated, it's a horrible stain on the game. I still love baseball, but I'm not "in love". 

You know what, man? I totally get what you are saying.. but.. its like the famous saying goes.. if you aint cheating you aint trying..

This theory applies to anything in life. We as regular people unfortunately do not get any where without bending the rules a bit or in other words.. cheating.

While i am totally against what the Astros did, and want pitchers to be throwing at them, players to be suspended for their participation and banners to be withdrawn.. i understand why they all did it. We try to get away with what we can... its the human in us... and when we get caught.. we gotta man up and take the punishment.

This is not just a baseball problem, though. Soccer is full of cheating. Football is full of cheating. Basketball is full of cheating. Hockey is also full of cheating. Each sport cheats in different ways, and while the issue in baseball is probably the most severe due to how dependent the individuals are in the secrecy behind whats coming.. they all still cheat.

Dont let it get to you man. Enjoy the game you love .

[The Big Bat Theory 7,534]

19 minutes ago, GC Tacos said:

Calm down, there’s nothing wrong with players policing themselves. If you don’t like that then fine, but it proves you don’t like intricacies of baseball. Maybe look for a new sport?

LOL!  Yeah sure.  I don't understand the "intricacies" of 19th century silliness.  Time for baseball to enter the 21st century.

9 minutes ago, BMcP said:

That would be some keypad...why not just give him a smartphone and let him stand up behind the plate and hide it close to the vest while he typed in pitch type, location, etc.

A keypad with one or two keys max is complicated?  One short tap for fastball, 2 for curve, 3 for change etc is complicated?  Maybe a second button added to reset and start the signals over at most though a tap sequence on the first key would work just as quickly? 

Or did you actually think he was going to "buzz" out Morse code spelling for f-a-s-t-b-a-l-l or something.  😉

Edited January 19, 2020 by The Big Bat Theory

[BMcP 8,609]

1 minute ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

A keypad with one or two keys max is complicated.  One tap for fastball, 2 for curve etc is complicated?  Maybe a second button added to reset and start the signals over at most?

Pretty sure it would need to do more than that to be useful at all.

[The Big Bat Theory 7,534]

1 minute ago, BMcP said:

Pretty sure it would need to do more than that to be useful at all.

Why?  It is just replacing fingers.  Signal pitch first then double tap to tell pitcher next tap is location taps like 1 for low inside etc.  Ain't rocket science.  Just a simple buzzer version of fingers.

[BMcP 8,609]

5 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Why?  It is just replacing fingers.  Signal pitch first then double tap to tell pitcher next tap is location taps like 1 for low inside etc.  Ain't rocket science.  Just a simple buzzer version of fingers.

Dude, that would require basically learning a whole new “tapping” language - even assuming these devices wouldn’t impede the players’ ability to actually play.  Do you tap nine times or ten times to signal low-low-outside?  How would this not affect a pitcher’s ability to focus on preparing to deliver the pitch?

It’s just not nearly as easy-peasy as you’re making it sound on this thread.

Edited January 19, 2020 by BMcP

[Low and Away 1,571]

50 minutes ago, GC Tacos said:

Calm down, there’s nothing wrong with players policing themselves. If you don’t like that then fine, but it proves you don’t like intricacies of baseball. Maybe look for a new sport? 
 

Second, it’s obvious you don’t watch international hockey. If something needs to be addressed they take it in their own hands. The only difference is the suspensions after the fact. 
 

Lastly, I think if every team threw at the lead off batter for the Astros it would send a clear message. I wouldn’t mind seeing a few of them lose out on money or career length after they caused the same to opposing players. 

Why only the Astros? Seems the Red Sox also need to be placed in the cheaters category or do they get a free pass? Realize the verdict hasn't been handed down yet but if Cora wasn't guilty why fire him? 

[The Big Bat Theory 7,534]

3 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

Why only the Astros? Seems the Red Sox also need to be placed in the cheaters category or do they get a free pass? Realize the verdict hasn't been handed down yet but if Cora wasn't guilty why fire him? 

He was officially let go for the Houston report.  If nothing happened in Boston at all he would still be gone.

[The Big Bat Theory 7,534]

31 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Dude, that would require basically learning a whole new “tapping” language - even assuming these devices wouldn’t impede the players’ ability to actually play.  Do you tap nine times or ten times to signal low-low-outside?  How would this not affect a pitcher’s ability to focus on preparing to deliver the pitch?

It’s just not nearly as easy-peasy as you’re making it sound on this thread.

Huh?  1 tap.  Pause, double tap.  2 taps.  That is rocket science to you?  So you would rather see the catcher repeat his signs several times when the pitcher keeps missing them and asking his to throw down his fingers yet again than a simple, clear cut vibration on his chest?  And no need to go to secondary signs when someone is on 2B.  Or changing them up mid-game out of fear they are being stolen.  A buzzer system would be way way more simple.

Edited January 19, 2020 by The Big Bat Theory

[Fbaseballgod 339]

32 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Dude, that would require basically learning a whole new “tapping” language - even assuming these devices wouldn’t impede the players’ ability to actually play.  Do you tap nine times or ten times to signal low-low-outside?  How would this not affect a pitcher’s ability to focus on preparing to deliver the pitch?

It’s just not nearly as easy-peasy as you’re making it sound on this thread.

tapping “language?”

do you mean just... tapping twice? Once for pitch, once for location? 

[Whitecloud0101 381]

Is there talk in this thread that the old school style of respect is now cavemanish? Hmmm

[shakestreet 4,103]

5 minutes ago, Whitecloud0101 said:

Is there talk in this thread that the old school style of respect is now cavemanish? Hmmm

The earthy crunchy crowd everybody gets a participation medal afterall we are in the 21st century. 

[sngehl01 917]

We are talking about ways to use technology to relay pitches and the one being talked about most is some keypad for Morse style buzzing? What year is this? 1989?

 

Just use small ear pieces and, idk, talk to him? Have the game called from the dugout even? Make the catcher mask cover more to be more sound proof? Just get better at relaying signs? 

 

There's no shortage of sign stealing and foul play scandals. Flashing stadium lights, turning AC on in the Astrodome when opposing teams hit, opening/closing modular roofs at a specific time, etc. Make penalties for u sportsman like play severe AND give teams the opp to use technology to more securely communicate signs.   

 

Of the multitude of options available I think it's safe to say we won't be seeing a keypad in catchers chest protectors anytime soon. 

[BMcP 8,609]

1 hour ago, Fbaseballgod said:

tapping “language?”

do you mean just... tapping twice? Once for pitch, once for location? 

That would be insufficient - not sure why some are having trouble understanding this relatively basic mathematical concept.

How would just two taps allow the pitcher to understand that he needs to throw a high-and slightly outside FB instead of a low-low-in slider, just as one example.

Edited January 19, 2020 by BMcP

[BMcP 8,609]

1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Huh?  1 tap.  Pause, double tap.  2 taps.  That is rocket science to you?  So you would rather see the catcher repeat his signs several times when the pitcher keeps missing them and asking his to throw down his fingers yet again than a simple, clear cut vibration on his chest?  And no need to go to secondary signs when someone is on 2B.  Or changing them up mid-game out of fear they are being stolen.  A buzzer system would be way way more simple.

And how exactly does “one” tap allow a pitcher to determine whether he needs to throw a fastball, as opposed to a slider, change, curve or sinker?  I won’t even ask how the various location possibilities would be communicated using two taps....

It just doesn’t seem like you’ve thought this through properly.

Edited January 19, 2020 by BMcP

[The Big Bat Theory 7,534]

3 minutes ago, BMcP said:

And how exactly does “one” tap allow a pitcher to determine whether he needs to throw a fastball, as opposed to a slider, change, curve or sinker?  I won’t even ask how the various location possibilities would be communicated using two taps....

It just doesn’t seem like you’ve thought this through properly.

It doesn't see like you read my posts thoroughly.  Three quick taps for a change.  Two for a curve.  One for a fastball.  Again, not rocket science.

[TribeFoo 1,411]

Pitchers are weird enough as is and I don’t envision most signing on to wear ear pieces. Anything that’s wireless is likely to be Bluetooth and that’s hackable as well. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s gonna be tough to reach common ground.

[The Big Bat Theory 7,534]

Just now, TribeFoo said:

Pitchers are weird enough as is and I don’t envision most signing on to wear ear pieces. Anything that’s wireless is likely to be Bluetooth and that’s hackable as well. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s gonna be tough to reach common ground.

They don;t have a problem in the NFL.  Not everything is Bluetooth which is a terrible technology no doubt.

1 hour ago, Whitecloud0101 said:

Is there talk in this thread that the old school style of respect is now cavemanish? Hmmm

Is that you, Ty Cobb?  Been sharpening your metal spikes up and just found it they don't let people wear them anymore?  😃

[BMcP 8,609]

3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

It doesn't see like you read my posts thoroughly.  Three quick taps for a change.  Two for a curve.  One for a fastball.  Again, not rocket science.

😂

Ok, man, we will have to agree to disagree here. Let’s hope the powers that be come to their senses and implement a new Morse code for Major League Baseball as the next high-tech innovation.