2020 MLB Sign Stealing Discussion

[fletch44 1,531]

There's also this...

https://twitter.com/Jared_Carrabis/status/1224726276285587458/photo/1

[shakestreet 4,112]

13 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

There's also this...

https://twitter.com/Jared_Carrabis/status/1224726276285587458/photo/1

Don’t be one of those guys if it’s on the internet it has to be true.
Did you hear the Tom Brady rumor that he was in Tennessee looking at schools? That was concocted by a 17 year old kid at the school. Who tweeted that .... then the story goes viral. 

[fletch44 1,531]

3 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

Don’t be one of those guys if it’s on the internet it has to be true.
Did you hear the Tom Brady rumor that he was in Tennessee looking at schools? That was concocted by a 17 year old kid at the school. Who tweeted that .... then the story goes viral. 

I don't know if it's true or not but I think it'd be pretty naive to believe there are only two teams with their hands in the cookie jar. And here we have two unrelated sources (Hembee and Gammons) with no reason to lie outing Chris Young as the player who brought the Apple watch scheme to Boston.

[shakestreet 4,112]

6 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

I don't know if it's true or not but I think it'd be pretty naive to believe there are only two teams with their hands in the cookie jar. And here we have two unrelated sources (Hembee and Gammons) with no reason to lie outing Chris Young as the player who brought the Apple watch scheme to Boston.

I have no idea how many teams but at this time two teams have been named. Period. Some need to find more teams to justify what? I have no idea ..

IMO The Astros took this cheating to the next level they were caught with there pants down in that cookie jar. We should have seen some suspensions to the named players. Banging, whistling etc.. is god damn awful in my eyes. 

[fletch44 1,531]

11 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

I have no idea how many teams but at this time two teams have been named. Period. Some need to find more teams to justify what? I have no idea ..

IMO The Astros took this cheating to the next level they were caught with there pants down in that cookie jar. We should have seen some suspensions to the named players. Banging, whistling etc.. is god damn awful in my eyes. 

I'm not trying to justify anything. We have a 22 page thread on sign stealing. I added a couple relevant reports with legitimate sources. Not sure why anyone would take issue with that or what the Astros taking it to another level has to do with this Chris Young story.

Edited February 5, 2020 by fletch44

[The Big Bat Theory 7,589]

1 hour ago, fletch44 said:

There's also this...

https://twitter.com/Jared_Carrabis/status/1224726276285587458/photo/1

Thanks.

1 hour ago, shakestreet said:

Don’t be one of those guys if it’s on the internet it has to be true.
Did you hear the Tom Brady rumor that he was in Tennessee looking at schools? That was concocted by a 17 year old kid at the school. Who tweeted that .... then the story goes viral. 

Hembree is 17 now?  He'd love to be and just starting his career again.

37 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

I have no idea how many teams but at this time two teams have been named. Period. Some need to find more teams to justify what? I have no idea ..

IMO The Astros took this cheating to the next level they were caught with there pants down in that cookie jar. We should have seen some suspensions to the named players. Banging, whistling etc.. is god damn awful in my eyes. 

Dude the Hembree post was from last AUGUST way before any of this came out.  Don't be naive and think only two teams do this stuff.  The next level was reached long ago.  Only two teams got "officially" caught by MLB so far is all. 

[rocklandrew 82]

 

first 3 paragraphs from mlb.com, 4th from Jerry Beach article discussing Hinch being asked questions about sign stealing during 2017 alcs . .. .. . .

 

The Commissioner's report said that Hinch twice took a bat to monitors that were used to steal signs, an indication that the manager did not approve of the players' methods. In hindsight, Hinch said, he should have taken further measures to stop what was happening.

"I should have had a meeting and addressed it face forward and really ended it," he said. "Leadership to me is often about what you preach. Leadership's also about what you tolerate. I tolerated too much.

"I wanted people to know that I didn't like it. I should have done more. I should have addressed it more directly. It's complicated when you're talking about a team and all the inner workings of a team.

 

His voice faltered ever-so-slightly and he cleared his throat a couple times. In real time, it wasn’t that noticeable, and maybe it meant nothing. Or maybe Hinch knew he was building lie upon lie.

 

Conclusion:   in modern baseball, the "star" players and their guaranteed $$ not only run the show but are the cash cows and landmark investments for the owners and their collective stoolie the commissioner.  Meanwhile, managers and administrators are typical, easy scapegoats to be fed to an uninformed public in some sort of morality play.

I'm not excusing Hinch, but giving the players who are documented, proven, enthusiastic cheaters a free pass is a horrible message any way you slice it.

unless you're this guy . ..

 

 . . ..   meanwhile I'm preparing for my upcoming league in an attempt to separate my friends from their entry fees so i guess it's complicated.

 

 

[Low and Away 1,575]

Watched the edited version on MLBTV last night.  He came off as someone who knew what was going on  was wrong but enjoyed the winning and all that came with it. Just wasn't impressed with his demeanor at all and felt that even though it didn't show there was a smirk behind the facade. After the year is up some team will hire him to manage again. The more I've "processed" all that  happened it should have been a lifetime ban.

[The Big Bat Theory 7,589]

People seemed to miss Nightengale's report when it first came out so:

Quote

By Matt Dolloff, 985TheSportsHub.com

A new column by baseball insider Bob Nightengale at USA Today shed more light on the Red Sox' managerial situation. But he also dropped a fresh detail on the team's potential punishment for their accused sign-stealing during the 2018 season.

According to Nightengale, the team is expected to receive no more than a light punishment for their alleged sign-stealing scheme due to "little evidence of cheating." Nightengale says this was the major hold-up in the team's reported intention to hire bench coach Ron Roenicke as manager. The Red Sox reportedly dispute the news.

Roenicke was the Red Sox' bench coach during the 2018 season, which is the time when multiple former Red Sox staffers say they illegally used the video replay room to learn the signal sequences of opposing teams. High-ranking officials involved in the investigation tell Nightengale that they lack evidence compared to the Astros' harsh punishment for their own sign-stealing scheme. People spoke anonymously on the Red Sox and no one in the organization acknowledged any rule violations. Former Astros pitcher Mike Fiers went on the record as the whistleblower for the sign-stealing in Houston, which also included clear audio and video evidence of a scheme involving banging on trash cans.

Given Smoak's out front allegations against the Yankees and the anonymous ones reported against I think up to 7 or 8 other teams if MLB gives a tough punishment here where they can't find a smoking gun then they would have to also start to look into at least a third of the remaining league and punish those teams to based on hearsay.  I guess MLB doesn't want to keep getting black eyes because along with the non-anonymous one against the Yankees some of the anonymous ones includ some of the better teams like last year's champs the Nats.  Also the Dodgers and Cubs and Brewers and D-Backs as I recall from that list.  Can't remember the others right now.

So it looks like an example was made with the Astros where they actually had that smoking gun.  Now basically a warning will be given to not only the Sox but second hand to the other clubs with what the Red Sox will get.  The other clubs are the real winners here since a light punishment for the Sox means no investigation of their past activities so they get to skate and everyone gets to push the reset button.

[hailfire4 413]

Shoeless joe Jackson got a lifetime ban and been dead 70 years and still not in HOF so maybe the year long ban turns out longer?

[charger_ss24 472]

It’s really amazing how people say how they should of done this or could have done that or how sorry they are after the fact.

Should’ve, could’ve, didn’t.

[Triple Short Of a Cycle 446]

11 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

People seemed to miss Nightengale's report when it first came out so:

Given Smoak's out front allegations against the Yankees and the anonymous ones reported against I think up to 7 or 8 other teams if MLB gives a tough punishment here where they can't find a smoking gun then they would have to also start to look into at least a third of the remaining league and punish those teams to based on hearsay.  I guess MLB doesn't want to keep getting black eyes because along with the non-anonymous one against the Yankees some of the anonymous ones includ some of the better teams like last year's champs the Nats.  Also the Dodgers and Cubs and Brewers and D-Backs as I recall from that list.  Can't remember the others right now.

So it looks like an example was made with the Astros where they actually had that smoking gun.  Now basically a warning will be given to not only the Sox but second hand to the other clubs with what the Red Sox will get.  The other clubs are the real winners here since a light punishment for the Sox means no investigation of their past activities so they get to skate and everyone gets to push the reset button.

When did Smoak say that about the Yankees?

[charger_ss24 472]

Here comes a lawsuit:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28673134/citing-unfair-practices-former-blue-jays-reliever-mike-bolsinger-elects-sue-sign-stealing-astros

[tonycpsu 5,418]

Interesting.  Not a lawyer, but it seems like he's got an uphill battle proving that particular outing was what led to him washing out when he was kind of terrible in the years leading up to that outing as well.  I do love the angle of trying to have the Astros WS funds redirected to charity, though.  If nothing else, it's a *chef's kiss* superb troll job.

[shakestreet 4,112]

Marwin Gonzalez steps up ... will any of those other cheaters from Houston do the same.

[Sidearmer 2,226]

1 minute ago, shakestreet said:

Marwin Gonzalez steps up ... will any of those other cheaters from Houston do the same.

 

He’s remorseful now after having a career year, winning the World Series, and earning the largest contract in his career as a result.

[Cmilne23 10,559]

39 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

Marwin Gonzalez steps up ... will any of those other cheaters from Houston do the same.

No, Bregman already gave a smug laugh in regards to effecting performance.  He’s going to get blasted by HBPs all year.  Bet he shatters a hand at some point.  Not touching him this year.

[colepenhagen 3,566]

39 minutes ago, Cmilne23 said:

No, Bregman already gave a smug laugh in regards to effecting performance.  He’s going to get blasted by HBPs all year.  Bet he shatters a hand at some point.  Not touching him this year.

you really think he will get targeted?

[Junkie Cosmonaut 702]

So exactly how did Carlos Beltran know that the Astros sign stealing methods were "behind the times"?

 

Beltran's 2016

w NYY - .304/.344/.546

w TEX - .280/.325/.451

 

Can't help but think that when this is all said and done, the Yankees are going to get buried in this too. 

 

  

[HOOTIE 1,087]

On 2/10/2020 at 2:26 PM, tonycpsu said:

Interesting.  Not a lawyer, but it seems like he's got an uphill battle proving that particular outing was what led to him washing out when he was kind of terrible in the years leading up to that outing as well. 

 

Maybe, but I would try it.

The most bangs recorded versus one pitcher, was Mike's last game against Astros. He was sent down right after.

In his defense, he pitched very few innings that year, 41, and 29 the year before. 

Before that he had a year, where he was 2% above league average.

Comparisons

Jose Lima pitched 13 years, made 24 mil, with a career era+ of 85.

Bolsinger is at 79 era+

Bolsinger career fip is 4.59

Kendall Graveman just got 1.5 mil, and his career fip is 4.54.

Mike probably doesnt get sent down after the bang game he got hit hard, had there been no bangs.

Not saying hes close to average, but guys havr made millions, with similar numbers as Bolsinger.

[HOOTIE 1,087]

He pitched 2 games against the Astros, giving up 8 earned, in 5.2 innings.

Take out the Astros, and his era drops a whole run down to 5.30.

[tonycpsu 5,418]

Yeah, the anecdata is there, but I don't know what the legal standard would be to say that he deserves legal relief.  It would open up the flood gates for other guys who had bad outings.  Particularly in light of findings that the sign stealing wasn't all that effective, it seems like a long shot to prove that those particular outings from Boslinger would have gone differently were it not for the trash can.

[shakestreet 4,112]

Anybody see the new piece from Ken Rosenthal & Evan Drellich ... I guess the whole article is on the Athletic 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/new-details-in-astros-cheating-scandal-put-carlos-beltrans-legacy-in-jeopardy-230153436.html

 

You’re an accessory to a robbery, and now you’re in the backseat of the getaway car. You never intended to be part of a criminal act. But the doors are locked, the driver is speeding away, and you’re unable to escape. One member of the 2017 World Champion Astros uses that analogy to explain the feeling in the clubhouse 

This piece is garbage.  Cora & Beltrán left after the 2017 then why did they continue to cheat in 2018? 

[Baseball Jonze 361]

The lawsuit brought on by the pitcher is interesting that it could get the individual players to testify to their involvement in it.  Whoever faces him that inning could reasonably be called to testify to the scheme.  I wonder how much MLB and Houston Asterisks will offer in settlement money to make this guy go away.  I guess the otherside could just agree that they cheated that inning, but just argue that inning alone didn't end the guys career.  That keeps the players from having to testify, but put that case in front of a civil jury where you only need the majority and I could see folks sticking it to Houston for cheating.  I mean the guy was blown out and it was his last inning in the show so there is enough there I'd think.  Interesting it was filed in LA and not Houston where the crime would have happened.  I'd suspect the Astros would try and move it to Houston courts in the very least - why file it in LA? 

[jonninho 174]

19 hours ago, colepenhagen said:

you really think he will get targeted?

100%. I would be extremely shocked if he finishes the year. Although Altuve is equally guilty, Bregman is so much more easy to dislike. Wont be touching him this year, either.