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Mookie Betts 2020 Outlook


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59 minutes ago, MSkibisky said:

based on ... age? He's 27.

 

carl crawford was done running at 29 and he was a much more prolific base stealer. (not as good overall i know)

Edited by jfazz23
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Betts batted behind Jackie Bradley Jr for years. The pitchers will be an upgrade.

Who cares about "skills level."  It is not competitive any more as a league.  NBA is run by about a half dozen players.  It sucks because of that. And quit saying people who are against 12 year /

Much as I like to bash Mookie, I have to defend his contracts demands.  He’s a 6-7 war per year avg player and those type of players are just super rare.  Harper is like a 4 War player except that sen

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28 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

carl crawford was done running at 29 and he was a much more prolific base stealer. (not as good overall i know)

I think he stopped running as soon as the Red Sox signed him to that mega-year huge contract.  Set for life does that to a player's legs sometimes.  LOL!

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37 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

 

carl crawford was done running at 29 and he was a much more prolific base stealer. (not as good overall i know)

and Dee Gordon stole 60 bases at 29 years old. I mean.. if we are just going to take a single sample and apply it to the theme..

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11 minutes ago, MSkibisky said:

and Dee Gordon stole 60 bases at 29 years old. I mean.. if we are just going to take a single sample and apply it to the theme..

 

yep...then cut that to 30 at age 30 while increasing his caught stealing by 10%.  so basically you are getting 2-4 top years of betts then 6-8 years of an 890 ops guy who hits 25- 30 homeruns (might benefit from a great hitters park too)

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4 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

 

yep...then cut that to 30 at age 30 while increasing his caught stealing by 10%.  so basically you are getting 2-4 top years of betts then 6-8 years of an 890 ops guy who hits 25- 30 homeruns (might benefit from a great hitters park too)

JDM, Harper and Arenado all have career OPS's in the 890s. You make it sounds like that isn't still a really great thing to consistently do.

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The dude clearly just wants to see FA. He's been a business first guy for most of his career. He's rebuffed extensions in the past. So he is setting himself up a very high bargaining position. That is all there is to it. We go thru this every year with great players setting themselves in FA. Of course they going have insane asks as a starting point. 

We will just have to see what he actually ends up getting. The is "player X worth this" debates when the player is clearly setting up his bargaining position isn't really useful. IMO.

Think some people are under-selling how good of a pure hitter Mookie is. No, its' not worth 400 Mil, but no one is has actually inked that contract. Boston just has to decide if they want to go for one last year. Personally think they should unless they get an impact prospect. Baseball isn't that predictable and Boston is still a very good team. If you can get a Gavin Lux for 1 year of Mookie. Sure, go for. Don't think that is going to happen though.

We shall see

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48 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

JDM, Harper and Arenado all have career OPS's in the 890s. You make it sounds like that isn't still a really great thing to consistently do.

 

JDM has averaged about a 1 OPS or just under the last 4 years. and im still not giving JDM a 10 year 350 mil deal.  Arenado will probably age better....hes a  corner infield power hitter.  his game not based on speed.  and he got 8 years 260 mil which is better than what betts thinks hes going to get. Harper got 25 mil a year. and again, his game isnt really tied to speed.

 

the question is is he worth the 10+ years 35 mil a year hes asking for.  reports are he turned down 10yr 300 mil.  you giving betts 10 years 350 mil?  

 

 

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1 hour ago, MSkibisky said:

and Dee Gordon stole 60 bases at 29 years old. I mean.. if we are just going to take a single sample and apply it to the theme..

But Dee Gordon never got the kind of contract Carl Crawford did.  Give Dee that kind of money and I bet he'd be happy to just stand on top of 1B day dreaming on what kind of new car he was going to buy next.  This mega contracts don;t exactly inspire full out play at times.  See Machado, Manny.

 

13 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

the question is is he worth the 10+ years 35 mil a year hes asking for.  reports are he turned down 10yr 300 mil.  you giving betts 10 years 350 mil? 

According to the Lou Merloni info he didn't ask for 350 mil and 10 years.  He asked for 420 mil for 12 years.  Same amount per year but for a dozen years instead.  Boston offered 10 years at 300 mil and was rejected.

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5 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

But Dee Gordon never got the kind of contract Carl Crawford did.  Give Dee that kind of money and I bet he'd be happy to just stand on top of 1B day dreaming on what kind of new car he was going to buy next.  This mega contracts don;t exactly inspire full out play at times.  See Machado, Manny.

 

*facepalm* .. I was just responding to the take on speed relating to age. That's it. You guys ... lol

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3 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

But Dee Gordon never got the kind of contract Carl Crawford did.  Give Dee that kind of money and I bet he'd be happy to just stand on top of 1B day dreaming on what kind of new car he was going to buy next.  This mega contracts don;t exactly inspire full out play at times.  See Machado, Manny.

 

According to the Lou Merloni info he didn't ask for 350 mil and 10 years.  He asked for 420 mil for 12 years.  Same amount per year but for a dozen years instead.  Boston offered 10 years at 300 mil and was rejected.

Good lord 12 years is ridiculous. Any GM that gives him(or anyone) a 12 year deal should be fired on the spot. We've seen how that plays out way too many times. He'd be an Ellsbury contract a little over half way through that deal. 

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20 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:


never thought I’d see this day


Big difference between Fantasy and Real Life :)

I’m Real life Mookie’s defensive ability is huge yet 95%+ of leagues probably don’t rate defence.

Mookies sublime defence is enhanced by his ability to play Boston’s right field. He has experience there and this too is valuable.  Even if the Red Sox were to hypothetically trade for an elite defensive OF and stick him in right field, there’s going to be problems adapting.  Some of those problems won’t translate to defensive metrics but will be very real (ie playing tricky bounces off of right field corner fences.

His OBP skills will also not play in some leagues.

with his contact skills and speed, he can advance runners and put pressure on the defence which also doesn’t translate to stats very well.

I prefer to wait until the trade decision works out to comment on his ADP.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by KingJoffrey
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9 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

 

According to the Lou Merloni info he didn't ask for 350 mil and 10 years.  He asked for 420 mil for 12 years.  Same amount per year but for a dozen years instead.  Boston offered 10 years at 300 mil and was rejected.

 

that insane.  if judge wants 10 years 300 mil im letting him walk too...

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On 1/31/2020 at 7:31 AM, Members_Only_76 said:

What do you think he’ll do in 2020?

Cause us to spend dozens of pages arguing whether some billionaire can afford to pay him and whether he'll live up to the contract. Especially once he hits an inevitable cold and hot streak during the season.

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1 minute ago, Members_Only_76 said:

@brockpapersizer just shared in hot stove thread. Mookie going to LA sounds “inevitable “. 
 

what do folks think of that from a 2020 fantasy perspective?

 

to be clear Peter Gammons is saying it not, me. Verdugo slight increase in value and Betts slight decrease I guess if they switch spots. I'd still be fine with Betts in round 1, but probably in the 2nd half, but whatever. Alex Verdugo is a solid player, feels Nick Markakish

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4 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

to be clear Peter Gammons is saying it not, me. Verdugo slight increase in value and Betts slight decrease I guess if they switch spots. I'd still be fine with Betts in round 1, but probably in the 2nd half, but whatever. Alex Verdugo is a solid player, feels Nick Markakish


I edited, my bad. Thanks and I tend to agree - slight decrease for Mookie but at the same time maybe he gets a little adrenaline boost in the new surroundings. 

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51 minutes ago, bluntbros said:

Please no. I cannot become a Dodger fan. Hopefully it’s one and done for Mookie and he finds a permanent home in 2021. He and Lindor should collaborate, like NBA players do, and put a franchise back on the map.

not possible. you could take 5 great players and stack a team and still not do jack. see yankees, lad.

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1 hour ago, bluntbros said:

Please no. I cannot become a Dodger fan. Hopefully it’s one and done for Mookie and he finds a permanent home in 2021. He and Lindor should collaborate, like NBA players do, and put a franchise back on the map.

Yeah let us try and destroy baseball in the process since the NBA is a total joke right now and no longer a true team sport. 

But fortunately no baseball team could afford BOTH contracts on the same team. 

And colepenhagen is right in that 2 super stars hitters do not a winning team make.  Without pitching -- and a team signing both Mookie and Lindor to 10 year  contracts could never afford a decent starter for that decade -- they won't even make the playoffs.  Even with one mega-contract and one under less money early on that guarantees nothing.  How many rings did the Trout and Pujols duo in Anaheim garner?

Fortunately baseball is still a team sport and just a couple of players can't get together and ride into a town and dictate a season to the whole league.  Baseball is a better sport than that.  It takes a whole team to win it all.

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