Jump to content
NBC Sports Edge Forums

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, kp96 said:

 

He had a bad game, like the rest of the team.  Before that he had 3 very good games.  I guess we should all drop Deandre Hopkins too?  He stunk yesterday.

He has had 1 average game, 2 good games, and 6 bad (two really bad) games. Box score watching is one thing. The only reason he has been relevant is because Brady feeds him. He looks slow. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

A moment of your time sir please fill out this form!

Posted Images

1 minute ago, oliminator123 said:

He has had 1 average game, 2 good games, and 6 bad (two really bad) games. Box score watching is one thing. The only reason he has been relevant is because Brady feeds him. He looks slow. 

 

He's 6'6" and 265 lbs.  What do you expect, greased lightning?  Yes he is a little slower but he was never a gazelle.  He is a mismatch because he is huge and can catch (although I do realize he had butter fingers last night).

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Wrong.  I answered your "call out" post.  Go back and read the thread.  

My answer was that Brady had beat up on some bad defenses, let's see how he does against a competent one.

And we just saw.

 

No. You purposely made incorrect statements that Brady has thrown more picks this year, been sacked more this year than he's ever been. At the time of that post, it was a lie and was called out as wrong and proven otherwise and you've yet to answer to that or admit you made it up.

Back in March, you made statements that Brady to TB would be a "disaster". Tampa Bay is improved with Brady leading the way and for the most part, they have looked very good. Far from the "disaster" label you predicted. You also mentioned that the Patriots would be great with Cam... How's that going? Don't mention their lack of weapons, because we all knew what the weapons would be when he arrived in NE.

 

Dude, why do you constantly make these negative declarations and then cling to them refusing to ever admit that you were wrong even when it's so glaringly obvious? You even try to make things up to back up your argument that gets refuted. It's like you just want to be a contrarian to get a rise out of people. You're pretty knowledgeable so I wish you'd drop the schtick.

Edited by ThreadKiller
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, kp96 said:

Brady and co. are gonna be pissed after being embarrassed like this on Sunday Night Football, with the entire country watching.  I expect a big game next week.

 

Or TB will focus on the run game after practically showing zero running game vs. NO.

Likely just to be a 250+ yd 1-2 TD game from Brady vs. CAR, but who knows, it's Brady.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ThreadKiller said:

Back in March, you made statements that Brady to TB would be a "disaster".

To my eyes, it pretty much looked like a disaster last night.  What are you seeing?

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

To my eyes, it pretty much looked like a disaster last night.  What are you seeing?

 

See what I mean? You conveniently ignore whatever you're called out on that's clearly false and try to cling to one thing in your loose efforts to avoid admitting anything. Obnoxious.

Edited by ThreadKiller
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

See what I mean? You conveniently ignore whatever you're called out on that's clearly false and try to cling to one thing in your loose efforts to avoid admitting anything. Obnoxious.

Since stats seem to be so important to you, riddle me this:

When was the last time Brady had a three-interception, three-sack game with no TD passes and his team scored 3 points?

Perhaps Arians's "throw deep and get the QB killed" system is not IDEAL for a 43-year-old statue.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Since stats seem to be so important to you, riddle me this:

When was the last time Brady had a three-interception, three-sack game with no TD passes and his team scored 3 points?

Perhaps Arians's "throw deep and get the QB killed" system is not IDEAL for a 43-year-old statue.

 

He had a bad game, man. It happens. The best part is that you STILL refuse to answer to the things you were clearly wrong about.

 

Riddle me this:

-Last week, you purposely made incorrect statements that Brady has thrown more picks this year, been sacked more this year than he's ever been. Those comments were factually false. At the time of that post, it was a clear lie and was called out as such and proven otherwise.

Why did you lie?

-You also mentioned that the Patriots would be great with Cam... How's that going? Don't mention their lack of weapons, because we all knew what the weapons would be when he arrived in NE.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Cam does not seem to be healthy, so that makes it tough.  New England's struggles have largely been on the defensive side.  They really miss Hightower and Chung, and, recently, Gilmore.

Cam has a get-well spot tonight against the Jets.  We'll see how they do.

Brady has thrown more picks and been sacked more as a Buc than he did as a Patriot.  You can manipulate stats all you like, but facts are facts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Cam does not seem to be healthy, so that makes it tough.  New England's struggles have largely been on the defensive side.  They really miss Hightower and Chung, and, recently, Gilmore.

Cam has a get-well spot tonight against the Jets.  We'll see how they do.

Brady has thrown more picks and been sacked more as a Buc than he did as a Patriot.  You can manipulate stats all you like, but facts are facts.

 

You're hilarious. You made the statement on 10.28 to which I responded with the below:

Haha what? Throwing more picks than what? Being sacked more than what? The below numbers PROVE that at the time of your statement, he was actually being sacked LESS than his time in NE and throwing INTs LESS often than his time in NE. So yes, it directly contradicted your comment.

 

-Averaged .6 Interceptions per game as a Patriot

-Averages .5 Interceptions per game as a Buc

-Averages 1.25 sacks per game as a Buc

-Averaged 1.75 sacks per game as a Patriot

 

At the time you made the statement you did that Brady HAD already been throwing more picks and being sacked more often (on 10.28 BEFORE the game last night), it was factually incorrect and an intentional lie. Why can't you seem to admit that? Ah, I know...Because your preference to be a contrarian and consistently move the goalposts is your schtick. I'm not the one manipulating statistics here man as it's clear to everyone except you, that it's YOU.

 

EDIT: To the bolded....haha this is just wrong. Their offense has been worthless and much of it is on Cam who is been absolutely terrible. Don't just follow box scores and try to pass nonsense as fact. The defense has not been the problem.

They were without Gilmore for ONE game against Buffalo and Josh Allen went just 11of18 for 154 and 1 int and 10 carries for only 23 yds and a rushing TD. Missing Gilmore wasn't the issue in that loss, it was the offense (Cam). Again, stop making stuff up to fit your narrative.

Edited by ThreadKiller
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Patriots often start a little slow, then start doing better as the weather gets colder and their defense starts to gel.  I suspect that pattern will repeat.

As for Brady, I am not sure why Tampa's future opponents would do anything other than try to duplicate New Orleans' defensive gameplan from last night, since it worked so well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

The Patriots often start a little slow, then start doing better as the weather gets colder and their defense starts to gel.  I suspect that pattern will repeat.

As for Brady, I am not sure why Tampa's future opponents would do anything other than try to duplicate New Orleans' defensive gameplan from last night, since it worked so well.

Adjustments. You know that teams are going to try to replicate what New Orleans did. I know it. I'm pretty sure Arians and Brady know that too. Expect Tampa Bay to have a better gameplan against the Panthers.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SharkSwimmer said:

The Patriots often start a little slow, then start doing better as the weather gets colder and their defense starts to gel.  I suspect that pattern will repeat.

As for Brady, I am not sure why Tampa's future opponents would do anything other than try to duplicate New Orleans' defensive gameplan from last night, since it worked so well.

The recipe was pretty simple, a defensive line that can generate consistent pressure with the down 4...they brought 1 extra guy here and there, but this was just the 2 rotational nose guys (Malcom Brown and Malcolm Roach) pushing back the Tampa center and guards repeatedly--so Tom could not step up into throws-- and 3-technique stud tackle David Onyemeta darting thru for pressures/hits. Plus edge guys Cam Jordan, Trey Hendrickson and Marcus Davenport creating havoc and crashing from the outside.

I thought the Tampa line was playing really well coming in, and I know one of their guards was out, but this was a defensive front just dominating. Brady had no shot...esp with Arians having a game plan that did not allow for enough short and intermediate stuff. Sean Payton coached circles around Arians last night.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

-Averaged .6 Interceptions per game as a Patriot

-Averages .5 Interceptions per game as a Buc

-Averages 1.25 sacks per game as a Buc

-Averaged 1.75 sacks per game as a Patriot

I actually do not think it is all that useful to run the numbers for Brady's entire Patriot career for comparison purposes.  I am most interested in Brady's final five years or so in New England.

During that stretch, Brady's physical skills had deteriorated a bit and his bread and butter was short passes to Edelman and James White with a quick release.  And count playoff games during that era, too, since they are critical when examining this player.

My argument has always been that 43-year-old checkdown artist Brady is a poor fit for chuck-it-and-pray Bruce Arians.  And that will show out with more sacks, hurries, QB hits, and interceptions than we saw from late-stage Patriot Tom Brady.

Last night was such a perfect example of my prediction coming true, at least for one game, that I guess I can understand why it seems to be rattling around in your brain with such destructive force.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, ST. STEVEN said:

The recipe was pretty simple, a defensive line that can generate consistent pressure with the down 4...they brought 1 extra guy here and there, but this was just the 2 rotational nose guys (Malcom Brown and Malcolm Roach) pushing back the Tampa center and guards repeatedly--so Tom could not step up into throws-- and 3-technique stud tackle David Onyemeta darting thru for pressures/hits. Plus edge guys Cam Jordan, Trey Hendrickson and Marcus Davenport creating havoc and crashing from the outside.

I thought the Tampa line was playing really well coming in, and I know one of their guards was out, but this was a defensive front just dominating. Brady had no shot...esp with Arians having a game plan that did not allow for enough short and intermediate stuff. Sean Payton coached circles around Arians last night.

 

Bowles doesn't seem capable of stopping the blitzing when it clearly isn't working. You're blitzing a cerebral precise quarterback with a not-great arm and he has some of the best intermediate route runners in the game (Thomas, Kamara, Sanders...) Just a horrible game-plan and little adjustment...Arians can't seem to pivot away as well from his long-developing routes when there is just no time to throw the ball or have a hot route / check-down. Why is Fournette getting 6 targets? Saints will take that every time vs. one of the elite WRs getting them.

Overall, Arians is a fraud, and the team is a top-3 to 5 talented team that just can't hang with the big boys.

This game felt like when Manning got annihilated in the super bowl against the Saints...Payton's the man but even his ego / cuteness costs him at critical times (like in the playoffs.)

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I actually do not think it is all that useful to run the numbers for Brady's entire Patriot career for comparison purposes.  I am most interested in Brady's final five years or so in New England.

During that stretch, Brady's physical skills had deteriorated a bit and his bread and butter was short passes to Edelman and James White with a quick release.  And count playoff games during that era, too, since they are critical when examining this player.

My argument has always been that 43-year-old checkdown artist Brady is a poor fit for chuck-it-and-pray Bruce Arians.  And that will show out with more sacks, hurries, QB hits, and interceptions than we saw from late-stage Patriot Tom Brady.

Last night was such a perfect example of my prediction coming true, at least for one game, that I guess I can understand why it seems to be rattling around in your brain with such destructive force.

 

Ah, moving the goalposts on one topic while conveniently ignoring the rest of the my post that proved something you said to be incorrect. Trademark Shark move.

-Averaged .47 Interceptions per game as a Patriot (final on 5 years as a Patriot)

-Averages .5 Interceptions per game as a Buc (as of 10.28 when comments were made)

-Averages 1.25 sacks per game as a Buc  (as of 10.28 when comments were made)

-Averaged 1.75 sacks per game as a Patriot (based on final 5 years as a Patriot)

The INTs are pretty in line with a slight edge to Brady throwing more as a Buc (as of 10.28 when comments were made), but the sample size is quite small here. But fine, since you are moving the goalposts, yes Brady on average had been throwing INTs at a miniscule fraction higher rate as a Buc than he did on average per game during his last 5 years in NE.

 

As for the sacks? Not. Even. Close. Further proof that you literally made it all up.

 

*And yes, you ARE in fact moving goalposts. At the time of your comment you passed along your comment as fact and didn't mention last 5 years. Once proved wrong, you now claim you meant (5) years and then conveniently use the game from last night (though this had not even been part of the equation back on 10.28 when you made the comment lol) to back your statement up? Hilarious. Had it gone the other way and last night further assisted in refuting your statement, you'd go the other way with it. Classic.

***To the bolded. LOL what? Destructive force? Whatever makes you feel good, man. Just trying to throw you a bone here to admit your false statements, but oh well.

 

 

Edited by ThreadKiller
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Stat heads like you are slaves to the numbers and can't understand the importance of seeing them in context.  It is one reason certain fantasy managers hang on with veteran players for too long.

Why would it be useful to include 2001-6 Brady's sack and interception totals as part of this process?  That is literally decades ago in a different era of the game and with a completely different team around him, not one single player the same on offense, defense, or special teams.  But that is the kind of thing you stat heads do.

It's why team managers who are overly reliant on statistical analysis cannot see the cliff coming for guys like Demaryius Thomas and Jeremy Maclin and Le'Veon Bell.  But their career numbers are so consistent!

Tell you what, let's wait until the end of the 2020 season.  Then let's look at Tom Brady's sack and interception numbers as a Patriot in 2019 and as a Buc in 2020.  I believe they will be significantly higher.  

And that's really all I have ever been trying to say.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Stat heads like you are slaves to the numbers and can't understand the importance of seeing them in context.  It is one reason certain fantasy managers hang on with veteran players for too long.

Why would it be useful to include 2001-6 Brady's sack and interception totals as part of this process?  That is literally decades ago in a different era of the game and with a completely different team around him, not one single player the same on offense, defense, or special teams.  But that is the kind of thing you stat heads do.

It's why team managers who are overly reliant on statistical analysis cannot see the cliff coming for guys like Demaryius Thomas and Jeremy Maclin and Le'Veon Bell.  But their career numbers are so consistent!

Tell you what, let's wait until the end of the 2020 season.  Then let's look at Tom Brady's sack and interception numbers as a Patriot in 2019 and as a Buc in 2020.  I believe they will be significantly higher.  

And that's really all I have ever been trying to say.

 

Yeah, I like to use data to support my arguments, sue me. What do you use? Oh, I know! You MAKE IT ALL UP. It's the "kind of thing guys like you do."

-I more than understand context and use it and refer to it when evaluating anything really. You are clearly someone who mainly just follows box scores and makes definitive statements based on them. Yet I'm the one who doesn't understand context? Um, ok.

-You claimed that Brady was being sacked more (wrong) and throwing more INTs (wrong) as a Buc (up until 10.28) than he ever did as Patriot. Those were incorrect statements. I'm supposed to assume that you meant only the past (5) years? GTFOH with that nonsense. If you wanted to use the past (5) years as a measuring stick, then it's YOUR job to mention that, not for someone else to assume that. If you didn't act the way you do, it would be easier to give you the benefit of the doubt on that. But since you prefer to go down with the ship, grasping at straws and moving the goalposts, proving you to be wrong is necessary. It would have been SO EASY for you to say "oh my mistake, but I was just referring to the past 5 years (or whatever)", but you choose a much different path because it's the "kind of thing guys like you do."

 

*To the bolded. But that's different than what you said before though.. Why change it now? Oh, I know! It's because what you said before was refuted and proved to be incorrect. And why would we just look at the numbers without using context to sort them? Different teams, entirely situations...Somehow those are valid now when you want it to help you but when NE teams from early 2000s are mentioned, those don't apply because "completely different team around him" even though the real reason is because they destroy your already flimsy argument.

 

You should change your name to GoalPostMover2020

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am talking about this Tom Brady, not the one from 18 years ago.  Which of us is using stats from the Tom Brady of 18 years ago to try to figure out this Tom Brady?  That would be you.  

I do not think those are very helpful.  If you are willing to be intellectually honest, you probably would have to admit the same.

But I see you have declined to wait until the end of 2020 to see how Brady's interception and sack totals as a Buc compare to 2019 as a Patriot.  I wonder why that is?

Link to post
Share on other sites

[...]

idk how to feel about brady at this point...every time i think he’s going to be reliable he makes me second guess that (like putting up 14 in the packers game). fortunately minnesota-atlanta-detroit is a great playoff schedule as long as he shows you enough to be worth starting in those matchups

Edited by tonycpsu
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ThreadKiller said:

It would have been SO EASY for you to say "oh my mistake, but I was just referring to the past 5 years (or whatever)

I did not make a mistake.  I said 43-year-old quick pass artist Tom Brady was going to be a poor fir for Bruce Arians's long developing deep-pass offensive system.

You are the one who tried to use averages from Brady's ENTIRE Patriot career for comparison with his first few games as a Tampa Bay Buc.

I did not let you get away with that transparent attempt at statistical sleight-of-hand, and you have been throwing a fit over it ever since.

But getting back to Tom Brady, it looks like he is going to end up with quite a few more sacks and interceptions this year as the Tampa quarterback compared to the system he played in with New England, a quick passing system that suited him better as he reached his late 30s and early 40s.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...