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20 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I did not make a mistake.  I said 43-year-old quick pass artist Tom Brady was going to be a poor fir for Bruce Arians's long developing deep-pass offensive system.

You are the one who tried to use averages from Brady's ENTIRE Patriot career for comparison with his first few games as a Tampa Bay Buc.

I did not let you get away with that transparent attempt at statistical sleight-of-hand, and you have been throwing a fit over it ever since.

But getting back to Tom Brady, it looks like he is going to end up with quite a few more sacks and interceptions this year as the Tampa quarterback compared to the system he played in with New England, a quick passing system that suited him better as he reached his late 30s and early 40s.

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At the time you wrote this, it was obviously false. Brady's INT rate was 1.4%, 1.9%, and 1.3% in his last three years in New England. After week 7 (when you made the comment) his INT rate was 1.5%. He had taken 8 sacks in 7 games, on pace for 18 in the season—he only finished with under 18 sacks a single time in the 10 seasons before he went to TB, and his average over the last 5 seasons was around 27 per year. Now you're here pretending that you didn't say the thing you said in the same thread and which you've been quoted on multiple times, which was demonstrably false. He simply wasn't throwing more picks or taking more sacks at the time you made this comment.

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28 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I did not make a mistake.  I said 43-year-old quick pass artist Tom Brady was going to be a poor fir for Bruce Arians's long developing deep-pass offensive system.

You are the one who tried to use averages from Brady's ENTIRE Patriot career for comparison with his first few games as a Tampa Bay Buc.

I did not let you get away with that transparent attempt at statistical sleight-of-hand, and you have been throwing a fit over it ever since.

But getting back to Tom Brady, it looks like he is going to end up with quite a few more sacks and interceptions this year as the Tampa quarterback compared to the system he played in with New England, a quick passing system that suited him better as he reached his late 30s and early 40s.


You are the one who said that “Tom Brady to TB will be a disaster.” It has not been. So because it has not been, that makes that prediction incorrect.

I used Brady’s career numbers as a Patriot because YOU said on 10.28 that he was throwing more picks and getting sacked more per game than he did during his career as a Patriot. In case you need to have your hand held, by definition of that incorrect statement of yours, that means that you are wrong here too, even if you want to move the goalposts to the past 5 years, you’re still very much wrong lol (and significantly too when it comes to sacks)

Absolute NONSENSE. About time you get shown the door and get blocked.

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I am talking about this Tom Brady, not the one from 18 years ago.  Which of us is using stats from the Tom Brady of 18 years ago to try to figure out this Tom Brady?  That would be you.  

I do not think those are very helpful.  If you are willing to be intellectually honest, you probably would have to admit the same.

But I see you have declined to wait until the end of 2020 to see how Brady's interception and sack totals as a Buc compare to 2019 as a Patriot.  I wonder why that is?


Incorrect. Not once have I used Tom Brady’s stats from 18 years ago to talk about today. Just responding to your BS lies and proving them wrong.

Any other NONSENSE you want to flat out make up?

 

Note that I’m not interested in conversing with someone like you at the end of 2020. You’ll long be blocked by then. The reason I didn’t bother to respond? Decided to take a page out of your pamphlet and just cherry pick what I want to respond to.

👋🏻 

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I am in the prediction business.  I do not think Tom Brady in Tampa is going to work out well.  He has had some good games against weak opponents.  Teams with decent defenses, like the Saints last night, have made him look foolish.

We will be able to evaluate at the end of the season whether or not I was correct.  Last night was a disaster.  A few more games like that, and Arians will have to make a change.  Who is Tampa's backup QB?

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Brady is not progressing through his reads like he should.  Watching him pre-snap he is locking on to a WR and knows where he is throwing the ball already.  I'm not talking about on some short designed play like the AB out for 5 yards. I'm talking about downfield he isn't scanning, he is just forcing it.  I'm not sure if that was a 1 game thing, or a general thing all year that was more noticeable last night.  Him chucking it to Gronk while AB is 5 yards to the left and running next to him and watching Gronk dive helplessly at the overthrow basically summed up the night.

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8 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I am in the prediction business.  I do not think Tom Brady in Tampa is going to work out well.  He has had some good games against weak opponents.  Teams with decent defenses, like the Saints last night, have made him look foolish.

We will be able to evaluate at the end of the season whether or not I was correct.  Last night was a disaster.  A few more games like that, and Arians will have to make a change.  Who is Tampa's backup QB?

 

This man:

 

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10 minutes ago, ilikepieman said:

620967064_ScreenShot2020-11-09at3_18_25PM.thumb.png.79d54ea2ac46f6cf2ffa5a1a4c2711ef.png

Brady's INT rate was 1.4%, 1.9%, and 1.3% in his last three years in New England. After week 7 (when you made the comment) his INT rate was 1.5%.

A ha!  Another statistical sleight-of-hand.  You two should take your act on the road.

A player who throws MORE passes will throw MORE interceptions even if the rate stays the same.  I said Brady was throwing more interceptions, and last night the trend accelerated.

BB new he had a QB with declining skills so he emphasized the run to protect him.

Arians does not tailor his program to the players on hand.  He runs his system whether he has YA Tittle or Dan McGwire.  4 runs last night?  Sheesh.  Arians left Tom to the wolves last night, then threw Tom under the bus in his after game presser. 

As I have said all along: not a match made in heaven.

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13 minutes ago, Sternes said:

Brady is not progressing through his reads like he should.  Watching him pre-snap he is locking on to a WR and knows where he is throwing the ball already.  I'm not talking about on some short designed play like the AB out for 5 yards. I'm talking about downfield he isn't scanning, he is just forcing it.  I'm not sure if that was a 1 game thing, or a general thing all year that was more noticeable last night.  Him chucking it to Gronk while AB is 5 yards to the left and running next to him and watching Gronk dive helplessly at the overthrow basically summed up the night.


I agree with this based on last night and I think it was due to him being uncomfortable for whatever reason.

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25 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

A ha!  Another statistical sleight-of-hand.  You two should take your act on the road.

A player who throws MORE passes will throw MORE interceptions even if the rate stays the same.  I said Brady was throwing more interceptions, and last night the trend accelerated.

BB new he had a QB with declining skills so he emphasized the run to protect him.

Arians does not tailor his program to the players on hand.  He runs his system whether he has YA Tittle or Dan McGwire.  4 runs last night?  Sheesh.  Arians left Tom to the wolves last night, then threw Tom under the bus in his after game presser. 

As I have said all along: not a match made in heaven.

OK, let's do it in terms of raw numbers then. When you made the comment, he was on page for 9 (total) interceptions on the season. The last three years in New England were 8, 11, and 8 picks—or an average of exactly 9. This also doesn't respond to the sack point at all because that was already in totals (so you conveniently ignored it) The crazy thing is that you keep denying you made a mistake and moving the goalposts, but even the new points are just as incorrect as the old ones

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Were any of these criticisms of Brady accurate in week 7 when he threw for 369 yards and 4 tds (plus a rushing td?). 

If they are, then how did he put up a game like that? 

If they are not, then are we saying that, in the span of 2 weeks, he went from awesome to completely losing his entire skill set?

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Sometimes a guy just puts up a stinker.  Rodgers had one against the Bucs a few weeks ago.

His schedule is pretty good for the rest of the year especially against week 14 and 15 against the Vikings and Flacons.

Maybe another week with AB will help get him to a more consistent level.

 

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1 hour ago, kp96 said:

Were any of these criticisms of Brady accurate in week 7 when he threw for 369 yards and 4 tds (plus a rushing td?). 

If they are, then how did he put up a game like that? 

If they are not, then are we saying that, in the span of 2 weeks, he went from awesome to completely losing his entire skill set?

Keep dreaming.  He started off hot last year too but fell off in the second half of the season and looked like the old man that he is.  He’s going to need optimal conditions like perfect protection and wide open receivers to throw to.  Otherwise expect a lot of dink and dunk.  His reflexes and arm aren’t strong enough to drive the ball to his spots.  
 

 

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17 hours ago, jstep13 said:

look at him. He's not so good. I knew he wasnt the goat.


let’s think about this for a minute. He is what, 44? How can he be as good. Not sure has anything left to prove. Come on man!

 

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It is in fact ok to say Brady played like trash. Great QBs sometimes just have a terrible game. One other HOF QB also put up a 160/0/2 performance in a blowout this same season. That being said Arians and Leftwich need to make some goddamn adjustments on offense when the deep passing game is shut down due to the pass rush.

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1 hour ago, Rickydragon said:

Keep dreaming.  He started off hot last year too but fell off in the second half of the season and looked like the old man that he is.  He’s going to need optimal conditions like perfect protection and wide open receivers to throw to.  Otherwise expect a lot of dink and dunk.  His reflexes and arm aren’t strong enough to drive the ball to his spots.  
 

 

 

Apparently his arm strength and reflexes are enough to put up 369 yards and 4 tds.  Were you on this forum telling us how much he sucks after that game?  Or did you just wait until he had a bad game?

Please.

Even after Sunday's disaster, he's still around the number 7 or 8 QB in the league in fantasy points.

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31 minutes ago, kp96 said:

 

Apparently his arm strength and reflexes are enough to put up 369 yards and 4 tds.  Were you on this forum telling us how much he sucks after that game?  Or did you just wait until he had a bad game?

Please.

Even after Sunday's disaster, he's still around the number 7 or 8 QB in the league in fantasy points.

He’s been mediocre in 4 of the last 5 games. But yeah, good luck chasing that 5 td game the rest of the season.  

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1 minute ago, Rickydragon said:

He’s been mediocre in 4 of the last 5 games. But yeah, good luck chasing that 5 td game the rest of the season.  

 

You're obviously not getting the point.  I'll spell it out for you.  If he was washed up, there is no way in hell he can ever put up 369 yards and 4 tds.  He did that 2 weeks ago. 

I never said he was going to repeat it.  Don't put words in my mouth.

 

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31 minutes ago, kp96 said:

 

You're obviously not getting the point.  I'll spell it out for you.  If he was washed up, there is no way in hell he can ever put up 369 yards and 4 tds.  He did that 2 weeks ago. 

I never said he was going to repeat it.  Don't put words in my mouth.

 

Uhh you’re not getting the point lol.  Nobody said that he never put up 5 td’s.  Why do you keep bringing that up?  Fantasy football is about future trajectories.  I don’t believe that a 43 year old is gonna excel as the season progresses.  That’s just my opinion.  He started off great last year but then reality set in and turned into an old dink and dunk qb.  

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1 hour ago, Rickydragon said:

He’s been mediocre in 4 of the last 5 games. But yeah, good luck chasing that 5 td game the rest of the season.  

 

1 hour ago, kp96 said:

I never said he was going to repeat it. 

 

21 minutes ago, Rickydragon said:

Uhh you’re not getting the point lol.  Nobody said that he never put up 5 td’s.  Why do you keep bringing that up?

 

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28 minutes ago, Rickydragon said:

Fantasy football is about future trajectories.

 

OK, so....going into week 7, did Brady have a weak arm, no reflexes, and no drive in his ball?  Or did that just happen conveniently after his week 7 game? 

 

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6 minutes ago, FouLLine said:

I keep hearing the only reason The Saints signed Winston was to get an in depth look into Bruce Arians playbook.

Not the only reason, they needed an experienced 3rd stringer to keep Taysom in his jack role.

But also it has proved to be pretty smart, as they have dusted a div rival 2x now, on the strength of shutting down the Arians scheme.

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