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Lamar Jackson 2020 Outlook


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2 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

QBs like Jackson crack me up. They are able to have one flukey season (Cam, Vick, etc) but it's not a sustainable style of play. It was OBVIOUS last season that Lamar Jackson is inaccurate and just not a good passing QB. All it takes is teams to adjust and now his "2nd time through the lineup" he is struggling because he is not a great passer.

It's just funny because when I (or anyone else) say these things last season. during Jackson's flukey season, or when Tebow was entering the NFL, or when Cam had his fluke season, people laugh at you like you're absolutely crazy. But why don't people learn that this style of QB play is not sustainable?

 

Honestly, I scratched my head when Baltimore let Hurst go bc I think Jackson needs 2 legit pass catching TEs.

 

Cam, Vick, and Lamar's career seasons were definitely unsustainable, (mostly aided by a career high TD %) but their style of play is sustainable for fantasy and real life. 

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RG3?

I love julio, but unfortunately this isn't street fighter where he can go "yoga arms" and catch one of lamars errand passes.

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2 minutes ago, Evincar said:

 

 but their style of play is sustainable for fantasy and real life

what's your definition of sustainable when it comes to real life?

Because there are qb's who can run real fast but choose to play qb and pass first. Those guys can sustain

Cam is prob going to be the only qb to have a lengthy good career as a run first starting qb

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Just now, Chippa said:

what's your definition of sustainable when it comes to real life?

Because there are qb's who can run real fast but choose to play qb and pass first. Those guys can sustain

Cam is prob going to be the only qb to have a lengthy good career as a run first starting qb

 

Agreed. I would argue that the statistics point to them NOT being sustainable. What player has proved them to be sustainable? Yes, you can play for a long stretch, but elite levels of performance is not sustainable IMO unless you are strong in the passing game.

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5 minutes ago, Chippa said:

what's your definition of sustainable when it comes to real life?

Because there are qb's who can run real fast but choose to play qb and pass first. Those guys can sustain

Cam is prob going to be the only qb to have a lengthy good career as a run first starting qb

 

Sustainable as they're going to be great for fantasy and good enough in real life for their teams to be competitive every season.

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9 minutes ago, Evincar said:

 

Sustainable as they're going to be great for fantasy and good enough in real life for their teams to be competitive every season.

a pass first qb is more sustainable and will have a longer career on average than a run first qb. These are just facts though

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41 minutes ago, Chippa said:

a pass first qb is more sustainable and will have a longer career on average than a run first qb. These are just facts though

 

I agree but if the issue is that Baltimore will move on from Lamar soon, they wont, unless his numbers are terrible and the team starts losing.

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2 hours ago, yossarian said:

You just called 17 almost historic level MVP level games (LJ), a super bowl run and 5 very-good-to-great seasons (Cam) and...everything Mike Vick did with both the Falcons AND the Packers a fluke. You then went on to compare them to...Tim Tebow. That's simply amazing in how incorrect it is. How long does a player have to be good and productive for you to NOT call them a fluke? Just curious? 

I don't now what is going on with LJ. He's certainly backslid for whatever reason (coaching, league wide defensive adjustments, roster talent, OLine quality / injuries, lack of offseason personal development, a little bit of each). However--that opinion above is just wrong and bad.

Also LJ's football IQ is not "clearly limited". That's a completely subjective statement and there's nothing "clearly" about it. I don't know what's going to happen with his career. I think there are a lot of valid things to be discussed about the struggles of this offense and this qb right now. "I'm gonna pat myself on the back because Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton, and Michael Vick were all flukes and were basically Tim Tebow and I knew it all along" is not one of them.

your apologist levels for lamar are next level. ONE YEAR BRAH. ONE FN YEAR. 

Edited by TroutFister
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Let us not forget who led the NFL in passing TDs waaaaaaaaay back in....last year!  He did this while completing 66% of his passes (good for 9th highest in NFL). The 'he always sucked as a passer' narrative is, as some would say, fake news!

Edited by Al.Davis
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44 minutes ago, Al.Davis said:

Let us not forget who led the NFL in passing TDs waaaaaaaaay back in....last year!  He did this while completing 66% of his passes (good for 9th highest in NFL). The 'he always sucked as a passer' narrative is, as some would say, fake news!

He sucks as a passer (compared to average and above QBs). I understand your point, but his legs and their running game opened a lot of that up last year. Now that teams have had more time to scheme for him he looks bad to terrible passing this year. 

I realize you can't take his legs away, but we're strictly talking passing right now. If he wasn't allowed to run he'd be a bottom 5-10 QB. 

Edited by BGDDYKWL
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On 11/3/2020 at 10:08 AM, ThreadKiller said:

QBs like Jackson crack me up. They are able to have one flukey season (Cam, Vick, etc) but it's not a sustainable style of play. It was OBVIOUS last season that Lamar Jackson is inaccurate and just not a good passing QB. All it takes is teams to adjust and now his "2nd time through the lineup" he is struggling because he is not a great passer.

It's just funny because when I (or anyone else) say these things last season. during Jackson's flukey season, or when Tebow was entering the NFL, or when Cam had his fluke season, people laugh at you like you're absolutely crazy. But why don't people learn that this style of QB play is not sustainable?

 

Honestly, I scratched my head when Baltimore let Hurst go bc I think Jackson needs 2 legit pass catching TEs.

 

Why do people lie and act like 2015 is the only good season Cam Newton has ever had? Lol Cam was having a career year before TJ Watt folded him like a lawn chair inside the pocket and wrecked his shoulder. Which btw could happen to anyone. 

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What's funny is that on Lamar's interceptions, the Steelers defense did NOTHING special lol. He blindly threw one back to a LB after scanning the other side of the field, and then tried to float a pass in a tight window over a flat defender when he should've just taken the flat. That's not defenses figuring anything out, that's just poor decision making by the QB. 

 

QBs throw multi interception games. Russell Wilson threw three of the most egregious interceptions of his career against Arizona and one should've went for six if DK Metcalf wasn't superhuman. Kyler Murray went 9/24 against the worst defense I've ever seen in my life and threw three picks against Detroit, should've been four. Aaron Rodgers was horrendous against Tampa Bay lol. Big Ben stunk against the Titans. Josh Allen's in a slump. Lamar is the only QB in the league that seems to dissected throw by throw and there's always these wide sweeping referendums every game like there's no tomorrow lol. 

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1 minute ago, Deuce1042 said:

Also there's no such thing as a "fluke season". You can have fluke games. No one is good for 16 games unless they're good LOL. 

If a guy plays 8-10 years, and only 1 season is good, I don't think most would say that makes him a good player. I think most would say he has one good year. Many would consider one good year of 8-10 to be a fluke. 

As to your first point, you say the Steelers did nothing special, but it could be subtle. Lamar could be forced to make throws he didn't have to make last year because the team's running game was more effective and they were steamrolling people, and defenses could've also adjusted their schemes a bit to force Lamar to make specific reads/throws he struggles with. 

He's declined significantly, I think we can all agree on that. It's gotta be something. 

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49 minutes ago, BGDDYKWL said:

If a guy plays 8-10 years, and only 1 season is good, I don't think most would say that makes him a good player. I think most would say he has one good year. Many would consider one good year of 8-10 to be a fluke. 

As to your first point, you say the Steelers did nothing special, but it could be subtle. Lamar could be forced to make throws he didn't have to make last year because the team's running game was more effective and they were steamrolling people, and defenses could've also adjusted their schemes a bit to force Lamar to make specific reads/throws he struggles with. 

He's declined significantly, I think we can all agree on that. It's gotta be something. 

 

1. There's a difference between a good season and an MVP level season. Matt Ryan is someone who only had ever one MVP level year, he's had plenty of good seasons. Stop the presses everyone, Lamar Jackson isn't duplicating a historical season like everyone on planet Earth thought he wouldn't. There is no such thing as a fluke season. You can statistically regress. You can get injured it. You had a good season because you're a good football player. 

 

2. No. They did nothing special. It was cover three and Lamar threw the ball right to the curl defender for no reason. On top of that the throw was late. That's bad Lamar that's not good Steelers. The 2nd interception happens because Mark Andrews doesn't get enough depth on his route so the the defender between him and Pat Ricard is in position defend both routes. Instead of taking the conservative option, Jackson decides to try and float the ball over the defender into a tight window and it back fired. Again throwing an interception for no reason. He's thrown both routes and made those reads a million times. 

 

This is starting to get ridiculous and borderline unhinged. He might be the only QB outside of Dak Prescott who is never allowed to have a bad game or even a bad throw. A guy that's thrown 13 interceptions his entire career and now we're suddenly worried that he can't read defenses. No he's human and made a bad decision like quarterbacks do every week. 

Edited by Deuce1042
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On 11/3/2020 at 8:47 PM, BGDDYKWL said:

He sucks as a passer (compared to average and above QBs). I understand your point, but his legs and their running game opened a lot of that up last year. Now that teams have had more time to scheme for him he looks bad to terrible passing this year. 

I realize you can't take his legs away, but we're strictly talking passing right now. If he wasn't allowed to run he'd be a bottom 5-10 QB. 

 

It is so tiresome that people hold Jackson's athleticism against him. If Tom Brady was intellectually deficient he'd suck and so would Mahomes if he were missing a right pinky finger and wasn't mobile. Football fans are SO BAD for young QBs. The way fans and media talk about young QBs is irritating because of the groupthink and reactionary hot takes. 

 

It's like every week there's this high stakes, do or die scenario where there's no tomorrow, and if Lamar isn't the best version of himself that he's ever going to be he sucks, and then when he performs well we add caveats and move the goalpost. 

 

For starters, the Ravens are dead last in the league in passing attempts (last I checked), they're not very deep at WR, their offensive line has substantially regressed from a year ago, and Lamar isn't perfect and is still learning how to play the position...AND THAT'S OKAY LOL. If I told you he does a lot of things better from the pocket than he did last season you'd probably shrug it off because stats stats stats. 

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26 minutes ago, Deuce1042 said:

1. There's a difference between a good season and an MVP level season. Matt Ryan is someone who only had ever one MVP level year, he's had plenty of good seasons. Stop the presses everyone, Lamar Jackson isn't duplicating a historical season like everyone on planet Earth thought he wouldn't. There is no such thing as a fluke season. You can statistically regress. You can get injured it. You had a good season because you're a good football player. 

 

2. No. They did nothing special. It was cover three and Lamar threw the ball right to the curl defender for no reason. On top of that the throw was late. That's bad Lamar that's not good Steelers. The 2nd interception happens because Mark Andrews doesn't get enough depth on his route so the the defender between him and Pat Ricard is in position defend both routes. Instead of taking the conservative option, Jackson decides to try and float the ball over the defender into a tight window and it back fired. Again throwing an interception for no reason. He's thrown both routes and made those reads a million times. 

Plenty of marginal players have had one very good year, in all sports. I'd consider it a fluke. But we've each stated our case with that so we can move on. 

What I'm saying is maybe Lamar is being forced to make tougher throws than he had to last year, and that's leading to these mistakes. 

14 minutes ago, Deuce1042 said:

It is so tiresome that people hold Jackson's athleticism against him. If Tom Brady was intellectually deficient he'd suck and so would Mahomes if he were missing a right pinky finger and wasn't mobile. Football fans are SO BAD for young QBs. The way fans and media talk about young QBs is irritating because of the groupthink and reactionary hot takes. 

 

For starters, the Ravens are dead last in the league in passing attempts (last I checked), they're not very deep at WR, their offensive line has substantially regressed from a year ago, and Lamar isn't perfect and is still learning how to play the position...AND THAT'S OKAY LOL. If I told you he does a lot of things better from the pocket than he did last season you'd probably shrug it off because stats stats stats. 

Yes, but saying Peyton wouldn't be as good without his mind is not the same as saying Lamar wouldn't be as good without your legs. Your mind doesn't go during your playing years, your legs do. Particularly at the QB position. 

He probably has improved some things since last year, I think that's a fair assumption. But if his expected production right now is QB5-10 with his legs at essentially 100%, what's gonna happen when his legs are 70%? Could get real ugly. I think that's where the concern is coming from. 

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40 minutes ago, Deuce1042 said:

 

1. There's a difference between a good season and an MVP level season. Matt Ryan is someone who only had ever one MVP level year, he's had plenty of good seasons. Stop the presses everyone, Lamar Jackson isn't duplicating a historical season like everyone on planet Earth thought he wouldn't. There is no such thing as a fluke season. You can statistically regress. You can get injured it. You had a good season because you're a good football player. 

 

Ryan's 2018 season wasnt much different than his MVP season.

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