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Lamar Jackson 2020 Outlook


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9 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

He was 19-23 for only 170 with a long completion of 21. It's not like was throwing very far so let's not pretend like he was "Mr Accurate" against the Colts.

 

The guy is simply not a good passer. Why can't people just call it how it is?

I never said he was a good passer. But hes not Jamarcus Russell

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RG3?

I love julio, but unfortunately this isn't street fighter where he can go "yoga arms" and catch one of lamars errand passes.

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Why is he already considered done developing when he's younger than Burrow at 23 lmao. Yea he might not be a top 3 QB this year (he has a cake second half schedule) but long term if you just assume he can't get better idk... It's likely just not his year and he clearly has more work to do developing as a passer but the rage in this thread for dropping 18 yesterday is... unwarranted? 

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6 minutes ago, mike11 said:

Why is he already considered done developing when he's younger than Burrow at 23 lmao. Yea he might not be a top 3 QB this year (he has a cake second half schedule) but long term if you just assume he can't get better idk... It's likely just not his year and he clearly has more work to do developing as a passer but the rage in this thread for dropping 18 yesterday is... unwarranted? 


If you could just hold off on the reasoning until I can buy low, that'd be much appreciated. 

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6 minutes ago, mike11 said:

Why is he already considered done developing when he's younger than Burrow at 23 lmao. Yea he might not be a top 3 QB this year (he has a cake second half schedule) but long term if you just assume he can't get better idk... It's likely just not his year and he clearly has more work to do developing as a passer but the rage in this thread for dropping 18 yesterday is... unwarranted? 

 

I don't think anyone in here said "he's 1 finished product and has zero change of improving" though...

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13 hours ago, CletisVanDamme said:

What the hell happened to this team?  Like, what's been the big change since last year?  Looks like basically the same roster to me.  Pretty amazing...They're actually winning games but somehow helping no one in the process fantasy wise, which seems really hard to do.

 

Mix of a couple of things, mainly being their massive run blocking protection regressing in the O line, lack of clear upgrades at the WR/TE positions, and a general lack of preparation against teams that seemingly are okay with Lamar beating them with his passing rather than running. Baltimore still sports an elite defensive unit, and can win games just managing and running the ball, with some timely throws sprinkled in here and there with Jackson. He's by no means a game manager, but the Ravens are not in the business of producing fantasy stat lines (like the Chargers); they want to win NFL games. 

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5 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

I don't think anyone in here said "he's 1 finished product and has zero change of improving" though...

Well actually someone said "Sham MVP, dude throws worse than Jamarcus Russell. Once he loses a step it’s over", and you liked the post.

If you agree with that post then yeah the sentiment he's not going to improve is being said

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1 minute ago, mike11 said:

 

Haha, he's getting called Jamarcus Russel man...

 

Playing like Jermarcus Russell when it comes to accuracy does not equate to "he is done developing and has zero change of ever improving".

 

With that said, I don't anticipate him ever becoming an accurate passer. Sure, he can improve, but IMO, his game is his game and he's likely never be known as a top accurate passer.

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3 minutes ago, owenmills said:

Well actually someone said "Sham MVP, dude throws worse than Jamarcus Russell. Once he loses a step it’s over", and you liked the post.

If you agree with that post then yeah the sentiment he's not going to improve is being said

 

I do agree that once he loses a step, it's likely over for him being an effective QB. He's not an accurate enough passer to stand alone in the passing game. Can he improve? Sure, but I don't think it will ever be enough to stand alone without the rushing threat. IMO, he needs his rushing ability in order to be effective.

 

*Liking that particular post does not equate to saying "He has zero change to improve." Stop putting words in my (or anyone elses) mouth please and thank you.

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Just now, ThreadKiller said:

 

I do agree that once he loses a step, it's over. He's not an accurate enough passer to stand alone in the passing game. He needs his rushing ability in order to be effective.

Sure, he'll never be Mahomes or Rodgers passing, but we've seen he doesn't need to be to be a dynamic fantasy QB. Unfortunately when you're ranked QB2 coming into the season you'll face scrutiny and for people that thought he'd carry them this year, half of his insane value was how late you got him last year and that return on investment is just not likely to happen. 

I'd say as a Ravens fan watching the games he's inconsistent right now and team are specifically forcing him to throw to the outside hashes where he's the worst. I'm going to leave this here too, people sometimes have a short memory. Now, this isn't to say "Lamar is a better passer than Mahomes" BUT it should show that he has done it (been accurate before).

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2 minutes ago, mike11 said:

team are specifically forcing him to throw to the outside hashes where he's the worst.

 

Weird how that works, huh? Teams are forcing him to go through his progressions and actually throw the ball this year and he's struggling with that.

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2 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Weird how that works, huh? Teams are forcing him to go through his progressions and actually throw the ball this year and he's struggling with that.

Dude what's you're deal? Very few QBs are perfect at throwing to ALL parts of the field, you stated "he's inaccurate", that's strange, I just showed during his MVP year he was very accurate. So yea, he has room to improve... What are we disagreeing about?

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21 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

I do agree that once he loses a step, it's likely over for him being an effective QB. He's not an accurate enough passer to stand alone in the passing game. Can he improve? Sure, but I don't think it will ever be enough to stand alone without the rushing threat. IMO, he needs his rushing ability in order to be effective.

 

*Liking that particular post does not equate to saying "He has zero change to improve." Stop putting words in my (or anyone elses) mouth please and thank you.

The sentiment of that post you liked was exactly 'he's not going to improve'. So if you agree with it, well then.....

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1 minute ago, owenmills said:

The sentiment of that post you liked was exactly 'he's not going to improve'. So if you agree with it, well then.....

 

Just stop.

 

Saying "Sham MVP, dude throws worse than Jamarcus Russell. Once he loses a step it’s over" is not the same as saying "he's not going to improve." Liking the first comment is also not the same as saying "he's not going to improve."

 

Seriously, just stop. I don't appreciate you making stuff up and trying to put words in my mouth.

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3 minutes ago, mike11 said:

Dude what's you're deal? Very few QBs are perfect at throwing to ALL parts of the field, you stated "he's inaccurate", that's strange, I just showed during his MVP year he was very accurate. So yea, he has room to improve... What are we disagreeing about?

 

My stance is that he is not an accurate passer. Can he improve? Sure. However, I think that once his rushing ability deteriorates he'll never be able to improve enough as an accurate passer to be effective without his rushing ability.

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9 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

My stance is that he is not an accurate passer. Can he improve? Sure. However, I think that once his rushing ability deteriorates he'll never be able to improve enough as an accurate passer to be effective without his rushing ability.

 

I think that's a fair assessment, once he loses a step it's unlikely he has the Russell Wilson ability to morph more into a pure passer and his career will likely fall off pretty quickly when it happens.

That said, his running ability is just about as elite as it can get, so I'd wager even if his passing stays at this year's levels he has a good 5+ more years as a QB in the league. At least half the teams in the NFL would instantly accept him as their starting QB if they had the option today.

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How did this guy lead the freaking league in TD passes last year? 36 TDs in 15 games. I doubt that talent just disappears. The offense seems like a mess this year. 

 

JaMarcus Russell??? Thats absolutely ridiculous. 

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13 minutes ago, fantasymad said:

How did this guy lead the freaking league in TD passes last year? 36 TDs in 15 games. I doubt that talent just disappears. The offense seems like a mess this year. 

 

JaMarcus Russell??? Thats absolutely ridiculous. 

 

No one said talent has disappeared though...

"The offense seems like a mess this year" because of Lamar Jackson not yet adjusting to how teams are forcing him to rely more on the passing game. That and like I said previously, I think it was a mistake to move on Hayden Hurst. IMO, the Ravens need the (2) TE big targets so that Lamar can quickly get rid of the ball to either of them. Last year, he could get away with not really going through progressions much and just throwing to safety valves (TEs) or tucking and running.

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2 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

No one said talent has disappeared though...

"The offense seems like a mess this year" because of Lamar Jackson not yet adjusting to how teams are forcing him to rely more on the passing game. That and like I said previously, I think it was a mistake to move on Hayden Hurst. IMO, the Ravens need the (2) TE big targets so that Lamar can quickly get rid of the ball to either of them. Last year, he could get away with not really going through progressions much and just throwing to safety valves (TEs) or tucking and running.

 

Lamar scrambles less often than Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson, Gardner Minshew, and Josh Allen. I actually wish he'd do it more and it drives me crazy that he forces the ball into tight windows instead of taking off, getting five yards, and falling. Or better yet check the ball for crying out loud. Which is way I never got the Mike Vick comparisons outside of them being Black and fast. Their play styles are not similar. 

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4 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

He was 19-23 for only 170 with a long completion of 21. It's not like was throwing very far so let's not pretend like he was "Mr Accurate" against the Colts.

 

The guy is simply not a good passer. Why can't people just call it how it is?

 

Never understood why NFL fans fetishize the deep ball so much. Really good deep ball throwers *only* complete about half of them. Maybe because they're eye popping and highlight worthy? I'm much more impressed with QBs who are good in the intermediate (which btw is harder for most QBs). 

 

Would you want him to connect on those 60 yard bombs? Sure if it's available. Drew Brees has never been much of a deep ball thrower and Peyton really wasn't either. Mike Vick and Cam Newton had the most beautiful deep balls ever and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn on routes closer than 20 yards. 

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4 hours ago, Soafanforlife said:

 

Mix of a couple of things, mainly being their massive run blocking protection regressing in the O line, lack of clear upgrades at the WR/TE positions, and a general lack of preparation against teams that seemingly are okay with Lamar beating them with his passing rather than running. Baltimore still sports an elite defensive unit, and can win games just managing and running the ball, with some timely throws sprinkled in here and there with Jackson. He's by no means a game manager, but the Ravens are not in the business of producing fantasy stat lines (like the Chargers); they want to win NFL games. 

 

They have to be able to throw the ball in January to win. Looks like their passing offensive finally saw some life against Indy when they went up tempo and used a TE and FB to block for max protection. The interior OL play has regressed enormously from a year ago. 

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6 minutes ago, Deuce1042 said:

 

Lamar scrambles less often than Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson, Gardner Minshew, and Josh Allen. I actually wish he'd do it more and it drives me crazy that he forces the ball into tight windows instead of taking off, getting five yards, and falling. Or better yet check the ball for crying out loud. Which is way I never got the Mike Vick comparisons outside of them being Black and fast. Their play styles are not similar. 

 

Lamar Jackson scrambles/runs less than Mahomes? Um, what? Lamar Jackson runs literally more than all of those players...

Jackon's play style is similar to Vick in that they are inaccurate passing QBs whose first instinct once they see that their first read is covered, is to run (scramble) and they are very good in doing so (running)

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11 minutes ago, Deuce1042 said:

 

Never understood why NFL fans fetishize the deep ball so much. Really good deep ball throwers *only* complete about half of them. Maybe because they're eye popping and highlight worthy? I'm much more impressed with QBs who are good in the intermediate (which btw is harder for most QBs). 

 

Would you want him to connect on those 60 yard bombs? Sure if it's available. Drew Brees has never been much of a deep ball thrower and Peyton really wasn't either. Mike Vick and Cam Newton had the most beautiful deep balls ever and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn on routes closer than 20 yards. 

 

When did I even mention the deep ball? Please don't put words in my mouth. My point was that context is important here. Someone labeled Jackson as accurate because he was 19-23 but didn't mention that the ball never really traveled far. It reminds me of when people would say OMG, Brees accuracy that game was 90% but he was 25-28 for 190yds with primarily dump offs/screens to the backs.

 

And yes, I agree I am much more interested in the short to intermediate passing game with the deep game as complimentary and connecting half the time is a success. Lamar is NOT accurate in the intermediate game.

 

I guess just my main point is, like I said, context is important.

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2 hours ago, fantasymad said:

How did this guy lead the freaking league in TD passes last year? 36 TDs in 15 games. I doubt that talent just disappears. The offense seems like a mess this year. 

 

JaMarcus Russell??? Thats absolutely ridiculous. 

 

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