Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion

[JE7HorseGod 2,702]

1 hour ago, brockpapersizer said:

Maybe the owners will feel bad and pay them anyway.

While no one can be too sure of anything these days, I can't see that happening ever.

[Dr. Whom 3,056]

16 hours ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

At my hospital. I work directly with COVID positive patients and don't get hazard pay because we don't have enough COVID patients.

 

Not sure what you want for "proof".

What Hospital and why does your employer refuse to give you hazard pay? I thought all hospitals got a per COVID patient amount in the first round of bailouts

[Thenewwildone8 826]

3 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Yes, players can choose to not pay and not get paid. Maybe the owners will feel bad and pay them anyway. This of course assuming there's a season. That being said, no athlete ever has to play in a game if they dont want to. Basic contract law. They may not get paid for a portion of their contract. 

100% going to be a season.

[Thenewwildone8 826]

12 hours ago, 2ndCitySox said:

What I find annoying and sad about these "liberty" demonstrations is that those that I feel have a right to be upset and frustrated are those that have lost their jobs and businesses because of state actions. I get that. But when I see these demonstrations, I see people that are mad because they cant go have fun and have things back to normal. I saw someone holding a sign saying, and I sh*t you not, "I NEED A HAIRCUT". 

 

Those are still relevant points. Why should a person be OK with having their fun taken away? Or not even be able to get a haircut? That’s literally robbing people of their liberty. When the 1% who die out of the less than 10% of infected who actually have serious symptoms start paying our bills maybe it will be OK to ruin our lives for them. I suspect that people who are so OK with quarantines are either ignorant to statistics, chicken littles, are part of the at-risk populations or lazy people with no social lives content to get paid for work at home.

[El_Chingon 1,810]

3 minutes ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

Those are still relevant points. Why should a person be OK with having their fun taken away? Or not even be able to get a haircut? That’s literally robbing people of their liberty. When the 1% who die out of the less than 10% of infected who actually have serious symptoms start paying our bills maybe it will be OK to ruin our lives for them. I suspect that people who are so OK with quarantines are either ignorant to statistics, chicken littles, are part of the at-risk populations or lazy people with no social lives content to get paid for work at home.

Callous take.  If one of your relatives were denied treatment in the ER because the hospitals were overrun with covid cases so you could have your fun, I suspect you might begin to see things differently.

[brockpapersizer 11,999]

28 minutes ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

100% going to be a season.

🧐

[TheForearmShiver 357]

44 minutes ago, El_Chingon said:

Callous take.  If one of your relatives were denied treatment in the ER because the hospitals were overrun with covid cases so you could have your fun, I suspect you might begin to see things differently.

People also like to look at the current numbers that are an incredible result of an amazing nation social distancing stay at home campaign. They can look at those numbers and say, see it wasn’t even that bad. Even thought it would have been exponentially worse with doing nothing or even a half measure. 

[El_Chingon 1,810]

7 minutes ago, TheForearmShiver said:

People also like to look at the current numbers that are an incredible result of an amazing nation social distancing stay at home campaign. They can look at those numbers and say, see it wasn’t even that bad. Even thought it would have been exponentially worse with doing nothing or even a half measure. 

Agreed, selfish idiots smh.

[TribeFoo 1,443]

1 hour ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

Those are still relevant points. Why should a person be OK with having their fun taken away? Or not even be able to get a haircut? That’s literally robbing people of their liberty. When the 1% who die out of the less than 10% of infected who actually have serious symptoms start paying our bills maybe it will be OK to ruin our lives for them. I suspect that people who are so OK with quarantines are either ignorant to statistics, chicken littles, are part of the at-risk populations or lazy people with no social lives content to get paid for work at home.

This is the rant of someone who’s never had to sacrifice anything or even think about anyone other than themself. Just grotesque.

[hailtoyourvictor 1,662]

3 hours ago, Dr. Whom said:

What Hospital and why does your employer refuse to give you hazard pay? I thought all hospitals got a per COVID patient amount in the first round of bailouts

 

Froedtert. One of the leading health systems in Wisconsin. Like I said, their reason is that our COVID volumes are not high enough for them to give us hazard pay. Even if they were, they were only giving it to employees who work 50% or more of their shift on a COVID floor.

 

 

[2ndCitySox 4,654]

2 hours ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

Those are still relevant points. Why should a person be OK with having their fun taken away? Or not even be able to get a haircut? That’s literally robbing people of their liberty. When the 1% who die out of the less than 10% of infected who actually have serious symptoms start paying our bills maybe it will be OK to ruin our lives for them. I suspect that people who are so OK with quarantines are either ignorant to statistics, chicken littles, are part of the at-risk populations or lazy people with no social lives content to get paid for work at home.

Dude, this is a temporary thing. No one is locking anyone up for life. 

Individual liberty is important, but when is it ok for your liberty to hurt a common good? Do you think these stories of hospitals being overrun are all made up? 

I know it sucks but people need to be smart about this, or it's going to get worse and take longer to get through. 

And honest to God your empathy only applies when someone pays your bills?

 

Edit: to reiterate, I approve opening up the economy in places that arent being ravaged by the virus right now. However, I dont think people should be out congregating closely for any reason just yet. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by 2ndCitySox

[hailtoyourvictor 1,662]

On 4/17/2020 at 2:33 PM, Dr. Whom said:

But that was only for selective surgeries correct? I read that they make the most money on surgeries

 

To touch back on this, it's not just elective surgeries that have been cancelled. We are cancelling as many outpatient radiology exams as possible. Our women's imaging centers (mammograms, breast ultrasound) have  been completely shut down all month.

[TrueToTheBlue 354]

Thinking about how this is going to play out it’s going to be a long and painful process. I personally don’t see there being any sports in 2020, I think it’ll be until spring 2021 and in empty stadiums. 

[daynlokki 425]

2 hours ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

Those are still relevant points. Why should a person be OK with having their fun taken away? Or not even be able to get a haircut? That’s literally robbing people of their liberty. When the 1% who die out of the less than 10% of infected who actually have serious symptoms start paying our bills maybe it will be OK to ruin our lives for them. I suspect that people who are so OK with quarantines are either ignorant to statistics, chicken littles, are part of the at-risk populations or lazy people with no social lives content to get paid for work at home.

Say everyone goes out and everyone gets infected from this virus. A 1% death rate is 3.3 million dead Americans. And it’s not 1% dead of only severe cases. It’s 1% dead period and they are even thinking that’s a grossly low estimate. CDC has put it as high as over 3%. 3 million dead Americans over a year would ravage our economy more than a shutdown ever could. 

[GamblorLA 368]

11 hours ago, jonninho said:

Uhm... if i was a wagering man.. which i am... i would place a bet on all of the above.. 🙄

Crazy how different the two cultures are.. we are in quarantine here in Canada too.. it sucks... honestly.. everyone is going a little crazy.. putting on a little weight.. many people like the U.S have lost their jobs.. all city facilities are closed.. but.. dont people get it that if we just abide by these restrictions for a few weeks we can all go back to normal a lot longer..

By having these protests.. you have now taken 3 steps backwards and will end up in a quarantine longer than you had to.. i just honestly do not understand the mentality of some people..

 

I'm am in the middle of this book, which I can't recommend highly enough if you're looking for a Corona book. Probably the best book of it's kind I've ever read.

Anyway, one thing it discusses is all the differences between collectivist and individualist cultures. They usually compare Americans to countries in the Far East, often Korea. So quite relevant to all this stuff, with the Eastern countries seemingly doing a far better job with the virus.

One of many cool facts is that the nature of your culture depends largely upon how your ancestors sustained themselves.  Eastern cultures were/are rice growers, which is an endeavor that requires a collective effort. Thousands of years later, everybody is on the same page with the Corona virus because their great, great, great.... grandparents were mainly rice farmers.  

Southern whites are partly more individualistic, but also very into systems of honor because they descend largely from herders.  If you are a herder, you have to fiercely stand up for yourself and observe certain social norms because if you don't, people will walk all over you. Use your land, steal your animals, etc. Sure enough, there they are reasserting their claim to the the beach, as though it were their grazing land and someone had tried to push them off of it*.

 

*Not all obviously.  Most people are intelligent and flexible enough to modify these impulses when needed.  

[MrBrett 138]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/coronavirus-black-plague-fall-of-rome-973211/

Found this an interesting read from the perspective of an European historian. Not all doom and gloom as the title suggests. 

[IcyBrood 8]

2 hours ago, MrBrett said:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/coronavirus-black-plague-fall-of-rome-973211/

Found this an interesting read from the perspective of an European historian. Not all doom and gloom as the title suggests. 

This was interesting read man, thanks.

[hockeyfan77 681]

2 hours ago, MrBrett said:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/coronavirus-black-plague-fall-of-rome-973211/

Found this an interesting read from the perspective of an European historian. Not all doom and gloom as the title suggests. 

 

22 minutes ago, IcyBrood said:

This was interesting read man, thanks.

Yeah, as a history teacher (American History) I learned some things...Great post

[The Big Bat Theory 7,602]

6 hours ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

Those are still relevant points. Why should a person be OK with having their fun taken away? Or not even be able to get a haircut? That’s literally robbing people of their liberty. When the 1% who die out of the less than 10% of infected who actually have serious symptoms start paying our bills maybe it will be OK to ruin our lives for them. I suspect that people who are so OK with quarantines are either ignorant to statistics, chicken littles, are part of the at-risk populations or lazy people with no social lives content to get paid for work at home.

And people that do NOT stay at home and social distance and sacrifice a little for the common good can be robbing people of their lives.  No life then there is no liberty.  Period.

Also I "suspect" that given your last sentence attacking the overwhelming majority of Americans doing the right thing that you know absolutely nothing about empathy or even basic science.

YOU are not the only one sacrificing.  And YOU are obviously not on the front lines risking your life everyday like out health workers and first responders or even the support troops of essential workers.  YOU don't care what happens to them and their families.  They have been BEGGING us to please stay at home.  But no.  YOU just want to "have fun."  Got news for you.  YOU are not the center of the universe.

Life isn't all peaches and cream.  Never has been and never will be.  Crap happens.  People pull together and work to get through it.  Except for the very selfish.  They go around making life more miserable for the rest of us and most of us do not appreciate that kind of behavior. 

You know why the tag of "the greatest generation" was applied to the people who grew up and suffered and came of age during the Great Depression only to be thrown full bore into WWII?  Because they were dealt a really lousy hand but they as a whole didn't whine though I'm sure every last one of those guys who went off to fight, BOTH those who volunteered and those who were drafted, would have loved to stay home and had a nice job and plenty of "fun" too. 

But no.  They took the hand they were dealt and played it the best they could.  Countless numbers of them went through far far worse for far far longer -- years even -- than any of us will have to do and they didn't whine and say me, me, me, me endlessly.  They did their duty.  And now is the time for all Americans to do their duty.  A far FAR easier duty for most of us then storming the bloody beaches of Normandy or fighting through a 6 month campaign in the jungles of Guadalcanal. We just have to social distance for a few months and stay home.  An easy sacrifice in comparison.

Edited April 20, 2020 by The Big Bat Theory

[GamblorLA 368]

So... you're telling me that being pulled away from your home and family, forced into the military, shipped overseas and then having to run directly at people who are trying to shoot you is a greater lapse in "liberty" than not being able to go to Dave & Busters for a little while?  I don't know, man.

It's also funny that these people are protesting... not the insider trading by politicians. not that massive amounts public money that could have been used to help them was misappropriated by corrupt politicians in both parties. THAT haircut, which cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars per person is fine. They're worried about a literal haircut at the barber.    

Makes me think of this:

 

All that money that was looted from you could have been used to buy many haircuts.

[daynlokki 425]

2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

And people that do NOT stay at home and social distance and sacrifice a little for the common good can be robbing people of their lives.  No life then there is no liberty.  Period.

Also I "suspect" that given your last sentence attacking the overwhelming majority of Americans doing the right thing that you know absolutely nothing about empathy or even basic science.

YOU are not the only one sacrificing.  And YOU are obviously not on the front lines risking your life everyday like out health workers and first responders or even the support troops of essential workers.  YOU don't care what happens to them and their families.  They have been BEGGING us to please stay at home.  But no.  YOU just want to "have fun."  Got news for you.  YOU are not the center of the universe.

Life isn't all peaches and cream.  Never has been and never will be.  Crap happens.  People pull together and work to get through it.  Except for the very selfish.  They go around making life more miserable for the rest of us and most of us do not appreciate that kind of behavior. 

You know why the tag of "the greatest generation" was applied to the people who grew up and suffered and came of age during the Great Depression only to be thrown full bore into WWII?  Because they were dealt a really lousy hand but they as a whole didn't whine though I'm sure every last one of those guys who went off to fight, BOTH those who volunteered and those who were drafted, would have loved to stay home and had a nice job and plenty of "fun" too. 

But no.  They took the hand they were dealt and played it the best they could.  Countless numbers of them went through far far worse for far far longer -- years even -- than any of us will have to do and they didn't whine and say me, me, me, me endlessly.  They did their duty.  And now is the time for all Americans to do their duty.  A far FAR easier duty for most of us then storming the bloody beaches of Normandy or fighting through a 6 month campaign in the jungles of Guadalcanal. We just have to social distance for a few months and stay home.  An easy sacrifice in comparison.

That generation also got hit with a Spanish Flu pandemic which if I remember right also had stay in place orders for part of it. 

[Dr. Whom 3,056]

1 hour ago, daynlokki said:

That generation also got hit with a Spanish Flu pandemic which if I remember right also had stay in place orders for part of it. 

They still had a parade when ww1 was over...they chose celebration of life instead of preserving it

 

[Dr. Whom 3,056]

7 hours ago, MrBrett said:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/coronavirus-black-plague-fall-of-rome-973211/

Found this an interesting read from the perspective of an European historian. Not all doom and gloom as the title suggests. 

Good read...although I thought the big problem in our country was the divide among people. People hate each other on both sides and we are less than 200 years from the last civil war in this country. Impossible to fight a common enemy effectively that way. 

 

The article also doesn’t address why a government or state needs to force businesses to help during the crisis. Henry Ford was against ww2 and he still retooled his factories to make bombers as it was the right thing to do.

[azeri98 827]

20 hours ago, jonninho said:

That appears to be what the situation is at the moment. Atleast to start the season off.

Truthfully, though some players have suggested they are not interested in the idea, i dont think they really have a say... They have a contract to play baseball, and where ever that might be, they must oblige to that contract. I think the owners will be on board with the idea (money obviously).. and the PA will be on board if enough players are willing to play (which there will be).. and that kinda forces all those who arent interested to kinda suck it up and get to AZ to play ball.. atleast IMO.

It all depends on the CBA. If they have to stay away from their families all season that's not going to fly. They will not have to honor those contracts unless the CBA states it.

[brockpapersizer 11,999]

29 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

It all depends on the CBA. If they have to stay away from their families all season that's not going to fly. They will not have to honor those contracts unless the CBA states it.

Once again. Regardless of the CBA,  every player in every sport under contract already has the option to not honor their contract and not get paid, even if there was no pandemic.
 

I know this isn't the case for every player, but I absolutely assume that most players are eager to pay and get paid. These guys worked real hard most or all of their adult lives and much of their "childhood" to get to where they are professionally. Most MLB careers are well under 10 years, I'm assuming under 5. Losing 5 to 50% of your most profitable financial years of your working life is something that most of these guys do not want to do.