Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion

[JE7HorseGod 2,700]

3 minutes ago, Rotocious said:

Deaths are way down.

So far today, so are cases.

16,395.  We haven't been below 20k since March 28th.

[JE7HorseGod 2,700]

3 hours ago, JE7HorseGod said:

So far today, so are cases.

16,395.  We haven't been below 20k since March 28th.

Ended with 18,196.  Both cases and deaths over the past two days have been lower than at any day over the past six weeks.

[jonninho 174]

2 hours ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Ended with 18,196.  Both cases and deaths over the past two days have been lower than at any day over the past six weeks.

Honest question - do you believe the numbers? or is there potential motivation within the Trump adminstration to ensure these numbers are inaccurately reported to ensure the economy gets up and running ASAP to help his campaign for re-election?

I am not on either side. Just curious of others thoughts about the reported numbers. In fairness, with the exception of a few major 'big name' countries.. the numbers as a whole do seem to be trending downward.

[Nefarious Industrialist 241]

4 hours ago, jonninho said:

Honest question - do you believe the numbers? or is there potential motivation within the Trump adminstration to ensure these numbers are inaccurately reported to ensure the economy gets up and running ASAP to help his campaign for re-election?

I am not on either side. Just curious of others thoughts about the reported numbers. In fairness, with the exception of a few major 'big name' countries.. the numbers as a whole do seem to be trending downward.

If there's potential motivation on one side, there's potential motivation on the other.  The most frustrating thing about this entire situation is being bombarded with so much contradictory information you can find the numbers to support any opinion you want.

[JE7HorseGod 2,700]

5 hours ago, jonninho said:

Honest question - do you believe the numbers? or is there potential motivation within the Trump adminstration to ensure these numbers are inaccurately reported to ensure the economy gets up and running ASAP to help his campaign for re-election?

I am not on either side. Just curious of others thoughts about the reported numbers. In fairness, with the exception of a few major 'big name' countries.. the numbers as a whole do seem to be trending downward.

If it was all about Trump's reelection, they wouldn't have gone up in the first place.

[Crusaderfan 297]

6 hours ago, jonninho said:

Honest question - do you believe the numbers? or is there potential motivation within the Trump adminstration to ensure these numbers are inaccurately reported to ensure the economy gets up and running ASAP to help his campaign for re-election?

I am not on either side. Just curious of others thoughts about the reported numbers. In fairness, with the exception of a few major 'big name' countries.. the numbers as a whole do seem to be trending downward.

I'm not on either side myself but what has become very apparent to me is that you can follow the political lines on this. IMHO - the stats are under reported in states that have Republican governors and over reported in states that have Democratic governors. Republican states are more aggressive in re-opening and the Democratic states are being so cautious in their re-opening that it appears as though it is now all about getting more Federal money. Our governor (in NJ) has been talking about a re-opening plan for two weeks, our numbers are steadily dropping, but we still haven't seen a plan from him. We have people here that have been trying to get unemployment for over 8 weeks yet he sits in front of a microphone every day telling us about all the bad news except what is going on with his Unemployment system. Thank God I am retired and not affected. 

Another thing I noticed a few days ago ( I have spare time since we have no fantasy to play) is that 8 of the top 10 states in cases and deaths have Democratic governors. I thought ok, probably have more states with Democratic governors but no there are actually 24 states led by a Democrat. The two Republican states were Massachusetts and Florida (duh). 

Like I said, I usually find my truth somewhere in the middle and didn't vote for Trump. But the political lines have become obvious to me - maybe they have been there from the beginning but I'm a little slow in my old age. Plus I'm grumpy because my gym is closed and we have to golf with some pretty dumb restrictions.

Again these are just my "observations" not here to debate endlessly. 

[TribeFoo 1,432]

Trump has entered the past-tense with this whole thing. From yesterday: "we have met the moment and we have prevailed." Say what? I truly believe this is why he doesn't want any federal testing plan. People will continue to test positive, it will continue to be daily news, and he will perceive that as looking bad in an election year. All along this has been the one thing he can't lie his way out of. Perhaps it would have been a semi-sound plan for him before the virus entered the White House.

That said, I don't think the daily numbers are really being fudged. The general trend is that initially-hit larger cities are seeing decreases while the virus continues to infiltrate smaller, rural communities that are not equipped to handle the patient load.

[Backdoor Slider 8,295]

All those health care workers who we called heroes for rushing to New York City to help their fellow Americans fight this virus...will be sent an income tax bill from New York for being out-of-state workers. Because New York is running a $13B deficit and they need their money. Despicable. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2020/05/08/andrew-cuomo-confirms-new-york-will-tax-out-of-state-volunteer-health-workers-congress-can-stop-this/amp/

[2ndCitySox 4,640]

6 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

All those health care workers who we called heroes for rushing to New York City to help their fellow Americans fight this virus...will be sent an income tax bill from New York for being out-of-state workers. Because New York is running a $13B deficit and they need their money. Despicable. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2020/05/08/andrew-cuomo-confirms-new-york-will-tax-out-of-state-volunteer-health-workers-congress-can-stop-this/amp/

What a jackass

[tonycpsu 5,406]

If only the state of New York had some other way to find money to cover the shortfall.  Like, if there were businesses who operate in the state who wouldn't notice a few shekels missing.  Alas.

[Backdoor Slider 8,295]

22 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

If only the state of New York had some other way to find money to cover the shortfall.  Like, if there were businesses who operate in the state who wouldn't notice a few shekels missing.  Alas.

Man, you found a way to turn incompetent government officials into “BLAME CORPORATIONS!” even here. Well done 👏🏼

[...]

Edited May 12, 2020 by tonycpsu
Don't make this personal.

[DivisionVision 458]

4 hours ago, Nefarious Industrialist said:

If there's potential motivation on one side, there's potential motivation on the other.  The most frustrating thing about this entire situation is being bombarded with so much contradictory information you can find the numbers to support any opinion you want.

 

The virus will play the winner of the Democrats vs. Republicans for the championship. I'm betting on the virus to take it all.

[tonycpsu 5,406]

1 minute ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Man, you found a way to turn incompetent government officials into “BLAME CORPORATIONS!” even here. Well done 👏🏼 

 

What are you talking about?  The state budget is in shambles right now.  States don't produce money with a printing press, nor can they run a trade deficit.  I'm suggesting that, instead of trying to chase down dollars from out-of-state volunteers or beg for more from the feds, he raise revenues from New York's existing taxpayers, particularly those with extra slack in their budget, like a finance industry that was in large part exempt from the lockdown.  You'd prefer what, exactly?

[Backdoor Slider 8,295]

5 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

What are you talking about?  The state budget is in shambles right now.  States don't produce money with a printing press, nor can they run a trade deficit.  I'm suggesting that, instead of trying to chase down dollars from out-of-state volunteers or beg for more from the feds, he raise revenues from New York's existing taxpayers, particularly those with extra slack in their budget, like a finance industry that was in large part exempt from the lockdown.  You'd prefer what, exactly?

They don’t have to print money.  Here, it’s easy:
Step 1- Tell all volunteers they’re excused and will not have to pay state taxes.

Step 2- Whatever else you need to be (raise tax rates if you wish. Those corporations can move out of state if they wish. I don’t care.)

 

*They shouldn’t be used as a political pawn (sorry, you’re getting screwed unless the federal government steps in and gives us money). 

[tonycpsu 5,406]

10 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

They don’t have to print money.  Here, it’s easy:
Step 1- Tell all volunteers they’re excused and will not have to pay state taxes.

Step 2- Whatever else you need to be (raise tax rates if you wish. Those corporations can move out of state if they wish. I don’t care.)

 

*They shouldn’t be used as a political pawn (sorry, you’re getting screwed unless the federal government steps in and gives us money). 

 

OK, so, we agree, then.  Neither of us thinks out-of-state people should pay the burden, and neither of us wants them to be used as pawns.  Not sure why you're trying to make this into something else.

[Gohawks 10,198]

11 hours ago, jonninho said:

Honest question - do you believe the numbers? or is there potential motivation within the Trump adminstration to ensure these numbers are inaccurately reported to ensure the economy gets up and running ASAP to help his campaign for re-election?

I am not on either side. Just curious of others thoughts about the reported numbers. In fairness, with the exception of a few major 'big name' countries.. the numbers as a whole do seem to be trending downward.

Considering there’s already countless reports of states skewing cases and deaths to be higher the answer is no. 

[AnonymousRob 3,508]

12 hours ago, jonninho said:

Honest question - do you believe the numbers? or is there potential motivation within the Trump adminstration to ensure these numbers are inaccurately reported to ensure the economy gets up and running ASAP to help his campaign for re-election?

I am not on either side. Just curious of others thoughts about the reported numbers. In fairness, with the exception of a few major 'big name' countries.. the numbers as a whole do seem to be trending downward.

Florida and Georgia have been giving inaccurate/very delayed numbers. Deaths are absolutely being underreported.

[shakestreet 4,104]

1 hour ago, Gohawks said:

Considering there’s already countless reports of states skewing cases and deaths to be higher the answer is no. 

 

38 minutes ago, AnonymousRob said:

Florida and Georgia have been giving inaccurate/very delayed numbers. Deaths are absolutely being underreported.

What is it? Deaths are higher or under?
 

Two different answers from two different parties? Ain’t that right? 

[tonycpsu 5,406]

The case for over-reporting is based on the fact that hospitals and insurers have a financial incentive to classify deaths as COVID to get more reimbursement from Medicare.  PolitiFact has studied the issue in great detail, concluding that this doesn't change the fundamental fact that deaths are being undercounted:

Quote

A post shared on Facebook claims hospitals have a financial incentive to claim patients had COVID-19, saying payment is three times higher if a patient goes on a ventilator. An article the post links to includes comments from a doctor who suggests the number of coronavirus cases is being padded.

It is standard for Medicare to pay roughly three times more for a patient with a respiratory condition who goes on a ventilator than for one who does not. That has nothing to do with the coronavirus.

As part of a federal stimulus bill, Medicare is paying hospitals 20% more than standard rates for COVID-19 patients.

Indications are that due to a lack of testing and other factors, the number of coronavirus cases has been undercounted, not padded.

 

USA Today, factcheck.org, NYT, and Snopes all come to similar conclusions.

[AnonymousRob 3,508]

29 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

 

What is it? Deaths are higher or under?
 

Two different answers from two different parties? Ain’t that right? 

Tony covered it well with the above posts. It's possible there may be pockets of padding but deaths are absolutely being undercounted overall. We probably won't get an semi accurate number until well after the year is over and can compare average annual deaths to previous years.

[Gohawks 10,198]

4 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

The case for over-reporting is based on the fact that hospitals and insurers have a financial incentive to classify deaths as COVID to get more reimbursement from Medicare.  PolitiFact has studied the issue in great detail, concluding that this doesn't change the fundamental fact that deaths are being undercounted:

 

USA Today, factcheck.org, NYT, and Snopes all come to similar conclusions.

 

Just now, AnonymousRob said:

Tony covered it well with the above posts. It's possible there may be pockets of padding but deaths are absolutely being undercounted overall. We probably won't get an semi accurate number until well after the year is over and can compare average annual deaths to previous years.

Oh there is no doubt that the total amount reported is less than actual cases. This is even confirmed by anti body testing done. However, there's a difference between underreporting deaths and cases due to not having the adequate testing vs skewing things on purpose. Such as reporting a death or a COVID case based on assumption alone rather than actual proof.

Also, it makes sense for states opening up to try and minimize amount of reported cases and for states closed to over report to try and justify their actions. That's politics for you. 

[AnonymousRob 3,508]

Fwiw Dr. Fauci  also says the deaths are likely higher.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-fauci-us-death-toll-cases-trump-spike-a9510791.html

[tonycpsu 5,406]

5 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

skewing things on purpose

 

I agree.  So we'll put you down as against Georgia's decision to change the way they reported data right around when they started reopening, then?

[JE7HorseGod 2,700]

8 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

I agree.  So we'll put you down as against Georgia's decision to change the way they reported data right around when they started reopening, then?

Hey if you can't trust Kemp to put personal ambition aside in the name of public good, who can you trust?  🤣

[Gohawks 10,198]

15 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

I agree.  So we'll put you down as against Georgia's decision to change the way they reported data right around when they started reopening, then?

Oh without a doubt. I'm just as against Georgia skewing in their favor as other states. It doesn't matter who is doing it.