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Deshaun Watson 2020 Outlook


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Please stop behaving like a 16yo, even if you are. This is a forum mostly populated by adults, so let's have an adult discussion. Points are not "won" by posting a link. Maybe you have a point, m

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6 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

I personally like Watson but I don't think any player should dictate who is coach, GM, President and Owner. 

 

If I'm houston I'd sell him for all I could get and just start over. 

 

 

Clearly the QB cannot dictate who is the team's owner, GM, coach, or VP of Football Operations/Team Chaplain/True Decision Maker of the team.

But a QB does have the option to withdraw his services when he has lost faith in the leaders of the organization.

"I won't play for you.  Period."

That can work if the player is already financially secure.  See Gronkowski, Rob, 2019 season.

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19 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Clearly the QB cannot dictate who is the team's owner, GM, coach, or VP of Football Operations/Team Chaplain/True Decision Maker of the team.

But a QB does have the option to withdraw his services when he has lost faith in the leaders of the organization.

"I won't play for you.  Period."

That can work if the player is already financially secure.  See Gronkowski, Rob, 2019 season.

 

That's the truth.

 

That's why I'd trade him for all he is worth and just rebuild.

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1 hour ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

I personally like Watson but I don't think any player should dictate who is coach, GM, President and Owner. 

 

If I'm houston I'd sell him for all I could get and just start over. 

 

 

Yup.

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1 hour ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

"I personally like Watson but I don't think any player should dictate who is coach, GM, President and Owner. If I'm Houston I'd sell him for all I could get and just start over. "

Imagine you're the GM of the LA Lakers & you've just won the NBA Title! But your coach has fallen out with your superstar, that rare player who's physical attributes & ball skills (combined) are way before his time. If there's any conviction behind what you've written, you're the sort who would've been remembered for making one of the biggest blunders in all of sports history.  

Just so you know, revenue-wise, the Houston Texans are in the top-5 these days! Every NFC East team is in the top-7/8, whether they win or not. Obviously, because of how huge their markets are. It's incredible that the Texans are as high as they are. You get one guess as to why that is! ha-ha 

 

 

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On 1/10/2021 at 2:46 PM, ajs723 said:

He led the league in passing yards and threw 33 TDs to 7 picks. He did this under the inept BOB and an interim coach with very little talent around him. The team had no idea how to use his legs, and the playcalling was not exciting, for the most part. He's pretty clearly a top 5, if not top 3, QB in the league.

As for the Miami rumors, I don't love it for him. That team still needs an alpha WR.

 

Big Ben led all QBs in Passing Yards on Super Wild Card Weekend. Why is that? Because he fell behind 28-0 and had to pass while playing from behind. 

So because Ben threw for 501 yards, most of all the QBs, does that mean he was the best QB on Super Wild Card Weekend?

Stat Pad-ford and Watson are the same QB. Anybody can fall behind by 2+ possessions every game and just spend the rest of the game padding their stats with hollow numbers while losing the game. That doesn't make one an elite QB.

The most relevant stat pertaining to Watson:

4-12.

QBs are judged on Wins and Losses. That's what Football is all about - Winning. Watson won 4 out of his 16 games in 2020. He's great for Fantasy Football, though. Being a great Fantasy QB doesn't make you a great real-life QB.

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8 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

Big Ben led all QBs in Passing Yards on Super Wild Card Weekend. Why is that? Because he fell behind 28-0 and had to pass while playing from behind. 

So because Ben threw for 501 yards, most of all the QBs, does that mean he was the best QB on Super Wild Card Weekend?

Stat Pad-ford and Watson are the same QB. Anybody can fall behind by 2+ possessions every game and just spend the rest of the game padding their stats with hollow numbers while losing the game. That doesn't make one an elite QB.

The most relevant stat pertaining to Watson:

4-12.

QBs are judged on Wins and Losses. That's what Football is all about - Winning. Watson won 4 out of his 16 games in 2020. He's great for Fantasy Football, though. Being a great Fantasy QB doesn't make you a great real-life QB.

He came from behind to beat this year’s darling Josh Allen in the playoffs last year. It isn’t his fault his coach sucked, his defense was awful, and they traded away his best offensive weapon.

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14 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

Big Ben led all QBs in Passing Yards on Super Wild Card Weekend. Why is that? Because he fell behind 28-0 and had to pass while playing from behind. 

So because Ben threw for 501 yards, most of all the QBs, does that mean he was the best QB on Super Wild Card Weekend?

Stat Pad-ford and Watson are the same QB. Anybody can fall behind by 2+ possessions every game and just spend the rest of the game padding their stats with hollow numbers while losing the game. That doesn't make one an elite QB.

The most relevant stat pertaining to Watson:

4-12.

QBs are judged on Wins and Losses. That's what Football is all about - Winning. Watson won 4 out of his 16 games in 2020. He's great for Fantasy Football, though. Being a great Fantasy QB doesn't make you a great real-life QB.

Also if he is just padding his stats chucking the ball around he wouldn’t have had an almost 5:1 TD to INT ratio. Ben threw a pick for every TD last week. Throwing to Keke Coutee and Chad Hansen and Brandin Cooks and some random TEs

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1 minute ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

He came from behind to beat this year’s darling Josh Allen in the playoffs last year. It isn’t his fault his coach sucked, his defense was awful, and they traded away his best offensive weapon.

Nice job of twisting the narrative.

 

They 1) Traded for the #1 pure Pass-protecting Left Tackle in football and made him the highest paid OL in the game. In large part because Watson has zero pocket presence and needs to hold onto the ball for 5 seconds, requiring a dominant pass-blocking LT. 2) Replaced Hopkins with a combo of not 1, but 2 WRs (Brandin Cooks, Randall Cobb). They didn't just get rid of Hopkins and not add any WRs.

 

2 of Watson's 4 wins this season came against the Jaguars, the team with the worst record in football.

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2 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

Also if he is just padding his stats chucking the ball around he wouldn’t have had an almost 5:1 TD to INT ratio. Ben threw a pick for every TD last week. Throwing to Keke Coutee and Chad Hansen and Brandin Cooks and some random TEs

Will Fuller was a Top 5 WR in the games he played in 2020 before suspension. Watson was throwing to a Top 5 WR in 11 games. He was still losing with Fuller.

Brandin Cooks is also an excellent WR. The Texans gave up a 2nd round pick to acquire Cooks. 

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5 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

Nice job of twisting the narrative.

 

They 1) Traded for the #1 pure Pass-protecting Left Tackle in football and made him the highest paid OL in the game. In large part because Watson has zero pocket presence and needs to hold onto the ball for 5 seconds, requiring a dominant pass-blocking LT. 2) Replaced Hopkins with a combo of not 1, but 2 WRs (Brandin Cooks, Randall Cobb). They didn't just get rid of Hopkins and not add any WRs.

 

2 of Watson's 4 wins this season came against the Jaguars, the team with the worst record in football.

Oh yeah how could I forget they signed Randall Cobb’s corpse. Hate to tell you Hopkins to Cook/Cobb is not a lateral move. Not sure what narrative I was twisting; I think the majority view isn’t “Deshaun Watson is a bad real life QB.”

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4 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

Will Fuller was a Top 5 WR in the games he played in 2020 before suspension. Watson was throwing to a Top 5 WR in 11 games. He was still losing with Fuller.

Brandin Cooks is also an excellent WR. The Texans gave up a 2nd round pick to acquire Cooks. 

Will Fuller was a top 5 WR PLAYING WITH WATSON. That doesn’t help your argument ha ha ha

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Just now, donslaughtonslaught said:

Will Fuller was a top 5 WR PLAYING WITH WATSON. That doesn’t help your argument ha ha ha

And I don’t care what the texans traded for Cooks because a) Bill O’Brien is an idiot and b) Brandin Cooks is on his fourth team in four years and one concussion away from retirement.

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1 minute ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

Oh yeah how could I forget they signed Randall Cobb’s corpse. Hate to tell you Hopkins to Cook/Cobb is not a lateral move. Not sure what narrative I was twisting; I think the majority view isn’t “Deshaun Watson is a bad real life QB.”

 

I never said he was a bad real-life QB. He's just not a great real-life QB. He does not play with tempo/pace, and never takes control of a game. That's not a great QB. Great QBs dictate the tempo, pace, and flow of the game.

 

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2 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

And I don’t care what the texans traded for Cooks because a) Bill O’Brien is an idiot and b) Brandin Cooks is on his fourth team in four years and one concussion away from retirement.

4th team in 4 years

1st team drafted him with a 1st round pick (Saints)

2nd team traded a 1st + 3rd round pick to acquire him (Pats)

3rd team traded a 1st round pick to acquire him (Rams)

4th team traded a 2nd round pick to acquire him (Texans)

So of the 4 teams Cooks has played on, 3 teams valued him at a 1st round pick, and 1 team valued him at a 2nd round pick. 

So basically....4 NFL teams all agree that Brandin Cooks is an excellent WR, hence the draft capital used to get him.

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6 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

Will Fuller was a top 5 WR PLAYING WITH WATSON. That doesn’t help your argument ha ha ha

 

Fuller had a Top 5 WR grade from PFF. 

Fuller was playing at an incredible level, not because he was playing with Watson.

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1 minute ago, PisEdiRin said:

4th team in 4 years

1st team drafted him with a 1st round pick (Saints)

2nd team traded a 1st + 3rd round pick to acquire him (Pats)

3rd team traded a 1st round pick to acquire him (Rams)

4th team traded a 2nd round pick to acquire him (Texans)

So of the 4 teams Cooks has played on, 3 teams valued him at a 1st round pick, and 1 team valued him at a 2nd round pick. 

So basically....4 NFL teams all agree that Brandin Cooks is an excellent WR, hence the draft capital used to get him.

And his original teams didn’t mind parting with him. I don’t imagine your argument is really “the Hopkins trade was fine, and Watson had comparable weapons once he was gone.” If so you are the first person I have ever seen make it. And on QB wins, I am a 49er fan, and I would never say Jimmy G was a better QB than Watson, Wilson, etc last year just because they won a bunch of games. Coaching, defense, special teams, roster management are all completely out of a QBs hands and have a huge effect on W-L record.

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1 minute ago, PisEdiRin said:

 

Fuller had a Top 5 WR grade from PFF. 

Fuller was playing at an incredible level, not because he was playing with Watson.

I am sure you watch a lot of Texans to have such opinions about Watson, but did you ever notice how many long TDs Fuller gets from Watson scrambling or making a crazy cross-field throw on the money? And are PFF WR grades totally independent of QB play? How would that even work?

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7 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

And his original teams didn’t mind parting with him. I don’t imagine your argument is really “the Hopkins trade was fine, and Watson had comparable weapons once he was gone.” If so you are the first person I have ever seen make it. And on QB wins, I am a 49er fan, and I would never say Jimmy G was a better QB than Watson, Wilson, etc last year just because they won a bunch of games. Coaching, defense, special teams, roster management are all completely out of a QBs hands and have a huge effect on W-L record.

You're full of excuses.

If you have to make this many excuses for a QB who just went 4-12 with 2 of his 4 wins coming against JAX.

Secondly, how did the 49ers do this season with Jimmy G missing most of the season? Exactly. Looks like Golden Boy Kyle Shanahan can't win as a HC unless he has Jimmy G as his QB. No Jimmy G at QB = no winning for Shanahan.

 

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Watson is both an excellent RL quarterback and fantasy football quarterback.  Repeated trips to the playoffs and playoff wins and his statistics prove that.  Watson would command an absolute king's ransom in a trade, and rightly so.

That's why it is so moronic that Cal "Tommy Boy" McNair seems to have chosen Easterby over Watson.  And Watson has every right to explore his options.

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1 minute ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Watson is both an excellent RL quarterback and fantasy football quarterback.  Repeated trips to the playoffs and playoff wins and his statistics prove that.  Watson would command an absolute king's ransom in a trade, and rightly so.

That's why it is so moronic that Cal "Tommy Boy" McNair seems to have chosen Easterby over Watson.  And Watson has every right to explore his options.

 

The Texans were already making the playoffs year after year under Bill Obrien WITHOUT Watson and with the Brian Hoyers, Tom Savages, and Matt Schaubs of the world.

It's not like Watson took over a non playoff team and was the reason they started making the playoffs. That simply isn't what happened.

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8 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

You're full of excuses.

If you have to make this many excuses for a QB who just went 4-12 with 2 of his 4 wins coming against JAX.

Secondly, how did the 49ers do this season with Jimmy G missing most of the season? Exactly. Looks like Golden Boy Kyle Shanahan can't win as a HC unless he has Jimmy G as his QB. No Jimmy G at QB = no winning for Shanahan.

 

Without Jimmy G and Bosa and Kittle and Dee Ford and Richard Sherman and Deebo. Again, QB is not the only position on the team. Watson single-handedly kept them in games against Tennessee twice and the Colts at least once. He has gone into foxboro and torn it up against Belichick and Brady. Beat Russell Wilson in Seattle. His career is more than just this year (when he was good and his team sucked).

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1 minute ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

Without Jimmy G and Bosa and Kittle and Dee Ford and Richard Sherman and Deebo. Again, QB is not the only position on the team. Watson single-handedly kept them in games against Tennessee twice and the Colts at least once. He has gone into foxboro and torn it up against Belichick and Brady. Beat Russell Wilson in Seattle. His career is more than just this year (when he was good and his team sucked).

 

Keeping a team in a game and ultimately losing = meaningless

Keeping a team in a game and ultimately winning = meaningful

You keep making meaningless points. In real life, we only care if you won the game or not.

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