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Deshaun Watson 2020 Outlook


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1 minute ago, PisEdiRin said:

 

Keeping a team in a game and ultimately losing = meaningless

Keeping a team in a game and ultimately winning = meaningful

You keep making meaningless points. In real life, we only care if you won the game or not.

Cool dude, good talk. “A quarterback can’t play well if his team loses” is an interesting take. 

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Please stop behaving like a 16yo, even if you are. This is a forum mostly populated by adults, so let's have an adult discussion. Points are not "won" by posting a link. Maybe you have a point, m

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5 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

Cool dude, good talk. “A quarterback can’t play well if his team loses” is an interesting take. 

I am pretty sure you are just trolling at this point, but I do want to point out the beauty of you citing PFF for Fuller while saying their third-highest rated QB this year isn’t that good.

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34 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

So basically....4 NFL teams all agree that Brandin Cooks is an excellent WR, hence the draft capital used to get him.

If this means Cooks is an excellent WR, then you're going to have to backtrack (or just disappear, per usual) when you see what teams will offer to get their hands on a QB like Watson.

Of course stats alone don't tell you if a QB is great, yet you think win/loss simply does? Enjoy defending Trubisky over Watson (LOL) bc he has a better record (29-21 vs. 28-25).

Want to use PFF ratings, like you did for Fuller? Watson was #2 in their grades.

I'm just using your own arguments to show how little water they actually hold under any scrutiny.

 

Edited by trilly
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1 minute ago, trilly said:

If this means Cooks is an excellent WR, then you're going to have to backtrack (or just disappear, per usual) when you see what teams will offer to get their hands on a QB like Watson.

Of course stats alone don't tell you if a QB is great, yet you think win/loss simply does? Enjoy defending Trubisky over Watson (LOL) bc he has a better record (29-21 vs. 28-25).

 

Yeah, exactly the point. Even Trubisky has a better record than Watson. Trubisky! Thank you for further proving my point. LOL

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Just now, PisEdiRin said:

Yeah, exactly the point. Even Trubisky has a better record than Watson. Trubisky! Thank you for further proving my point. LOL

No, exactly the opposite of the point - W/L is driven by many factors outside of one player. I won't bother feeding the troll anymore

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11 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

Cool dude, good talk. “A quarterback can’t play well if his team loses” is an interesting take. 

 

Patrick Mahomes 14-1

Aaron Rodgers 13-3

Josh Allen 13-3

Russell Wilson 12-4

Lamar Jackson 11-5

Tom Brady 11-5

1st ballot HOF Brees = #2 seed in NFC

1st ballot HOF Ben = #3 seed in AFC

 

---------‐----------------

 

 

 

 

Deshaun Watson 4-12*

 

 

*2 wins came versus JAX

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2 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

 

Patrick Mahomes 14-1

Aaron Rodgers 13-3

Josh Allen 13-3

Russell Wilson 12-4

Lamar Jackson 11-5

Tom Brady 11-5

1st ballot HOF Brees = #2 seed in NFC

1st ballot HOF Ben = #3 seed in AFC

 

---------‐----------------

 

 

 

 

Deshaun Watson 4-12*

 

 

*2 wins came versus JAX

Jared Goff’s trash game and Baker Mayfield: in the playoffs because their teams have good running games and olines and coaching and defenses or some combo of those. None of which the Texans had. And if winning playoff games is a barometer WATSON DID THAT LAST YEAR. Can’t say you aren’t an effective troll.

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1 hour ago, PisEdiRin said:

The Texans were already making the playoffs year after year under Bill Obrien WITHOUT Watson and with the Brian Hoyers, Tom Savages, and Matt Schaubs of the world.

It's not like Watson took over a non playoff team and was the reason they started making the playoffs. That simply isn't what happened.

Yes, the team built by Rick Smith achieved considerable success, most notably acquiring their long-term franchise QB.

But in a very short time, Easterby and Bill O'Brien have made a huge mess of things.  And now that O'Brien is gone, even the most notable success is now threatened.

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30 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

 

Patrick Mahomes 14-1

Aaron Rodgers 13-3

Josh Allen 13-3

Russell Wilson 12-4

Lamar Jackson 11-5

Tom Brady 11-5

1st ballot HOF Brees = #2 seed in NFC

1st ballot HOF Ben = #3 seed in AFC

 

---------‐----------------

 

 

 

 

Deshaun Watson 4-12*

 

 

*2 wins came versus JAX


 

Football is called “The ultimate team sport” for a reason it takes 22 players to win.


If you judge how good a qb is solely on wins then guys like drew bledso , alex smith, and joe flacco should go down as all time greats since they have top 20 win percentages (in front of many hall of famers) but in fact we know they were mostly average with a couple good seasons but we’re on a lot of really good teams. 
 

flacco is awful but has this elite ravens defenses

alex Smith is the epitome of a game manager but had great 49ers and chiefs defenses along with great run games. 
 

these guys have better win percentages that Troy aikmen, Russel Wilson, ken stabler, Steve young.. the list goes on. 

 

Watson is a top 5 QB on a bottom 5 team that shouldn’t have been competitive in 90% of their games and solely cuss of Watson’s never say die attitude and talent they won a few and were competitive in most. Don’t ever compare him to that bum trubisky if you wanna be taken Seriously tho. 

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2 hours ago, PisEdiRin said:

Big Ben led all QBs in Passing Yards on Super Wild Card Weekend. Why is that? Because he fell behind 28-0 and had to pass while playing from behind. 

So because Ben threw for 501 yards, most of all the QBs, does that mean he was the best QB on Super Wild Card Weekend?

Stat Pad-ford and Watson are the same QB. Anybody can fall behind by 2+ possessions every game and just spend the rest of the game padding their stats with hollow numbers while losing the game. That doesn't make one an elite QB.

The most relevant stat pertaining to Watson:

4-12.

QBs are judged on Wins and Losses. That's what Football is all about - Winning. Watson won 4 out of his 16 games in 2020. He's great for Fantasy Football, though. Being a great Fantasy QB doesn't make you a great real-life QB.

There isn't a take in sports that I disagree with more. QBs don't win games, teams win games. I could go through the list of great QBs from Peyton Manning, to John Elway, to Matt Ryan, etc. who have had horrible seasons by record.

Watson completed over 70% of his passes and had a 112 QB rating, while "padding" his stats. We can argue about Cooks and Fuller, but this is unquestionably not an elite offense around Watson. Yet, his numbers are objectively elite, however you slice it.

Furthermore, Watson has no control over the defense being dog doo. 

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44 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:


 

Football is called “The ultimate team sport” for a reason it takes 22 players to win.


If you judge how good a qb is solely on wins then guys like drew bledso , alex smith, and joe flacco should go down as all time greats since they have top 20 win percentages (in front of many hall of famers) but in fact we know they were mostly average with a couple good seasons but we’re on a lot of really good teams. 
 

flacco is awful but has this elite ravens defenses

alex Smith is the epitome of a game manager but had great 49ers and chiefs defenses along with great run games. 
 

these guys have better win percentages that Troy aikmen, Russel Wilson, ken stabler, Steve young.. the list goes on. 

 

Watson is a top 5 QB on a bottom 5 team that shouldn’t have been competitive in 90% of their games and solely cuss of Watson’s never say die attitude and talent they won a few and were competitive in most. Don’t ever compare him to that bum trubisky if you wanna be taken Seriously tho. 

 

False. Wins/Losses is a Team stat, a QB stat, and a HC stat. It certainly is a QB Stat. That's not debateable.

ProFootballReference is the Encyclopedia of Football. Here is Watson's page:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00.htm

Notice that QBs have a special "QBrec" column, tha t no other position has. There is no "RBrec", "WRrec", "DErec", "CBrec", "LBrec",...I think you get the point.

The QB is the only position on the field who is assigned a W/L record, for a reason. 

All the other great QBs are winning most of their games....if Watson wants to be considered great, he needs to be held to the same standard.

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37 minutes ago, ajs723 said:

There isn't a take in sports that I disagree with more. QBs don't win games, teams win games. I could go through the list of great QBs from Peyton Manning, to John Elway, to Matt Ryan, etc. who have had horrible seasons by record.

Watson completed over 70% of his passes and had a 112 QB rating, while "padding" his stats. We can argue about Cooks and Fuller, but this is unquestionably not an elite offense around Watson. Yet, his numbers are objectively elite, however you slice it.

Furthermore, Watson has no control over the defense being dog doo. 

False. Wins/Losses is a Team stat, a QB stat, and a HC stat. It certainly is a QB Stat. That's not debateable.

ProFootballReference is the Encyclopedia of Football. Here is Watson's page:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00.htm

Notice that QBs have a special "QBrec" column, tha t no other position has. There is no "RBrec", "WRrec", "DErec", "CBrec", "LBrec",...I think you get the point.

The QB is the only position on the field who is assigned a W/L record, for a reason. 

All the other great QBs are winning most of their games....if Watson wants to be considered great, he needs to be held to the same standard.

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1 hour ago, trilly said:

If this means Cooks is an excellent WR, then you're going to have to backtrack (or just disappear, per usual) when you see what teams will offer to get their hands on a QB like Watson.

Of course stats alone don't tell you if a QB is great, yet you think win/loss simply does? Enjoy defending Trubisky over Watson (LOL) bc he has a better record (29-21 vs. 28-25).

Want to use PFF ratings, like you did for Fuller? Watson was #2 in their grades.

I'm just using your own arguments to show how little water they actually hold under any scrutiny.

 

 

Watson or Brady over Allen is a joke.  I can argue Rodgers being better this season. I'd love to see PFF grading.

(I know you were just using PFF grading in regards to the Fuller comparison.  More of a general statement, but it looks strange without replying to your post with the image attached)

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1 minute ago, Sternes said:

 

Watson or Brady over Allen is a joke.  I can argue Rodgers being better this season. I'd love to see PFF grading.

 

Yup. Allen is unanimously a Top 3 QB in the NFL in 2020.

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1 hour ago, trilly said:

If this means Cooks is an excellent WR, then you're going to have to backtrack (or just disappear, per usual) when you see what teams will offer to get their hands on a QB like Watson.

Of course stats alone don't tell you if a QB is great, yet you think win/loss simply does? Enjoy defending Trubisky over Watson (LOL) bc he has a better record (29-21 vs. 28-25).

Want to use PFF ratings, like you did for Fuller? Watson was #2 in their grades.

I'm just using your own arguments to show how little water they actually hold under any scrutiny.

 

 

PFF grades for QBs is completely useless.

 

The QB is a complex, intangible, situational-based position. The QB's main job, is to Win.

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1 hour ago, Stonej14 said:


 

Football is called “The ultimate team sport” for a reason it takes 22 players to win.


If you judge how good a qb is solely on wins then guys like drew bledso , alex smith, and joe flacco should go down as all time greats since they have top 20 win percentages (in front of many hall of famers) but in fact we know they were mostly average with a couple good seasons but we’re on a lot of really good teams. 
 

flacco is awful but has this elite ravens defenses

alex Smith is the epitome of a game manager but had great 49ers and chiefs defenses along with great run games. 
 

these guys have better win percentages that Troy aikmen, Russel Wilson, ken stabler, Steve young.. the list goes on. 

 

Watson is a top 5 QB on a bottom 5 team that shouldn’t have been competitive in 90% of their games and solely cuss of Watson’s never say die attitude and talent they won a few and were competitive in most. Don’t ever compare him to that bum trubisky if you wanna be taken Seriously tho. 

 

Football in Year 2020/2021 is no longer "the ultimate team sport"

It used to be that way. Not anymore.

This league has turned into a full blown QB League.

Great QBs win in 2020 NFL. Great QBs take control of games, they dictate the tempo and flow of the game. 

Patrick Mahomes 14-1

Aaron Rodgers 13-3

Josh Allen 13-3

Russell Wilson 12-4

Lamar Jackson 11-5

Tom Brady 11-5

---------------------------------------------

 

Deshaun Watson 4-12*

*2 wins versus JAX, those are like Half-wins each

 

^^^1 of the above is drastically different than all of the rest.

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7 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

False. Wins/Losses is a Team stat, a QB stat, and a HC stat. It certainly is a QB Stat. That's not debateable.

ProFootballReference is the Encyclopedia of Football. Here is Watson's page:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00.htm

Notice that QBs have a special "QBrec" column, tha t no other position has. There is no "RBrec", "WRrec", "DErec", "CBrec", "LBrec",...I think you get the point.

The QB is the only position on the field who is assigned a W/L record, for a reason. 

All the other great QBs are winning most of their games....if Watson wants to be considered great, he needs to be held to the same standard.

I don't even know how to begin to respond to this... 

MLB also keeps track of wins/losses for pitchers. Watson is the equivalent of a pitcher with a 2.5 ERA and 200 strikeouts, but a losing record. Would you say that pitcher isn't elite? No, of course not. There's only so much he can control. 

I've already pointed out that other all-time great QBs have had bad record seasons because they had little talent around them. However, if you want to hand-wave history, you don't have to look beyond this year. Matt Ryan was also 4-12 this year. Justin Herbert, who had the greatest rookie season of any QB, probably ever, started 2-9. Ryan and Herbert did everything they could, they just got no help.

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1 minute ago, ajs723 said:

I don't even know how to begin to respond to this... 

MLB also keeps track of wins/losses for pitchers. Watson is the equivalent of a pitcher with a 2.5 ERA and 200 strikeouts, but a losing record. Would you say that pitcher isn't elite? No, of course not. There's only so much he can control. 

I've already pointed out that other all-time great QBs have had bad record seasons because they had little talent around them. However, if you want to hand-wave history, you don't have to look beyond this year. Matt Ryan was also 4-12 this year. Justin Herbert, who had the greatest rookie season of any QB, probably ever, started 2-9. Ryan and Herbert did everything they could, they just got no help.

 

Russell Wilson had a Bottom 3 Defense for basically the entire season, and he still went 12-4.

Great QBs WIN. No excuses.

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Just now, PisEdiRin said:

 

Football in Year 2020/2021 is no longer "the ultimate team sport"

It used to be that way. Not anymore.

This league has turned into a full blown QB League.

Great QBs win in 2020 NFL. Great QBs take control of games, they dictate the tempo and flow of the game. 

Patrick Mahomes 14-1

Aaron Rodgers 13-3

Josh Allen 13-3

Russell Wilson 12-4

Lamar Jackson 11-5

Tom Brady 11-5

---------------------------------------------

 

Deshaun Watson 4-12*

*2 wins versus JAX, those are like Half-wins each

 

^^^1 of the above is drastically different than all of the rest.

Justin Herbert started his NFL career 2-9, guess he's trash! 

Joe Burrow 2-7-1, looks like the Bengals got a bust.

Matt Ryan 4-12, so he must be garbage. 

 

Here's a fun one. 

Philip Rivers has seasons of:

4 wins, 5 wins (twice), 7 wins, 8 wins (twice), 9 (four times), 11 wins (twice), 12 wins, and 14 wins. 

So, I guess Rivers is simultaneously an awesome, average, and terrible QB. By your logic, anyway. 

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8 minutes ago, PisEdiRin said:

 

Russell Wilson had a Bottom 3 Defense for basically the entire season, and he still went 12-4.

Great QBs WIN. No excuses.

Peyton Manning had a 3-13 season. And another 6-10 season. No excuses. Peyton Manning was terrible. 

John Elway had a 4-6 season, and another 5-11 season. No excuses. John Elway sucked. 

Steve Young had a 2-12 season. No excuses.....

You get it. Your thesis falls apart at the slightest bit of scrutiny. 

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