Jump to content
NBC Sports Edge Forums

Deshaun Watson 2020 Outlook


Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

If Deshaun Watson came out tomorrow and said he was being racially discriminated against, I'd be first in line to support him. But as it currently stands, there has been no evidence of that occurring, nor has that been a major factor in his decision making. This is more Jay Cutler than you want to admit. Trust was broken between the front office / GM/ HC and a star player, and the star player wants out. It's as simple as that. To throw baseless accusations of racism into the equation does not serve to help Watson's grievances at all. Hiring Caserio is not racist. Not hiring Bieniemy is not racist. 

If racist tendencies do exist behind the scenes in the Houston front office, I agree it will need to be cleaned up in order for the organization to be viable long term. But that if just an "if" scenario at this current juncture, and until I hear otherwise from Watson or one of his representatives, that does not appear to be a deciding factor.

These accusations should not be thrown around casually, that's all. Where they are indeed baseless, it only serves to undermine legitimate critiques of race relations. You think you're doing Watson favors, but he's a grown a** man who can handle his own. If it is because of racism, I have no doubt he would let it be know loud and clear.

 

The question was whether his ownership calling the team inmates and referring to them as slaves had a negative impact on Watson's view and opinion of ownership. You were claiming definitively that it had nothing to do with it. I agree with the opinion that there is no way to know for sure and that it's likely safe to assume that that particular incident is kept in the back of Watson's mind and contributes in some fashion toward his opinion of the Houston FO.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 818
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Please stop behaving like a 16yo, even if you are. This is a forum mostly populated by adults, so let's have an adult discussion. Points are not "won" by posting a link. Maybe you have a point, m

Posted Images

3 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

The question was whether his ownership calling the team inmates and referring to them as slaves had a negative impact on Watson's view and opinion of ownership. You were claiming definitively that it had nothing to do with it. I agree with the opinion that there is no way to know for sure and that it's likely safe to assume that that particular incident is kept in the back of Watson's mind and contributes in some fashion toward his opinion of the Houston FO.

exactly what I'm talking about. this didn't happen. Hopkins interpretation of McNair's original statements are valid and his own, but ownership never called players slaves. but keep fighting the good fight

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

exactly what I'm talking about. this didn't happen. Hopkins interpretation of McNair's original statements are valid and his own, but ownership never called players slaves. but keep fighting the good fight

 

EDIT: Referred to them as inmates IMPLYING slaves which caused players to mention that they felt like that was his implication.

Either way, this back and forth isn't worth the debate for me. In my opinion, McNair's comments likely contribute in some fashion to Watson's opinion of ownership and the Houston org. Are they the driving force in him wanting out? Likely not, but I think it's safe to say that they have contributed in some way to his opinion of McNair. With that said, you have made it clear that you disagree and that you're somehow 100% certain that it has nothing to do with Watson's opinion on the Houston front office. Not sure how you know that (hint: you don't) but hey, what do I know?

Edited by ThreadKiller
Link to post
Share on other sites

There may not be any racism going on, and there may be.  When a star black player starts speaking out against racial injustice, then gets traded away for David Johnson, it sure does not seem like purely a football decision.

Cheap shot at David Johnson, who seems to be a good man and was a helluva player in his prime.  But you take my meaning.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, lolcopter said:

If Deshaun Watson came out tomorrow and said he was being racially discriminated against, I'd be first in line to support him. But as it currently stands, there has been no evidence of that occurring, nor has that been a major factor in his decision making. This is more Jay Cutler than you want to admit. Trust was broken between the front office / GM/ HC and a star player, and the star player wants out. It's as simple as that. To throw baseless accusations of racism into the equation does not serve to help Watson's grievances at all. Hiring Caserio is not racist. Not hiring Bieniemy is not racist. 

If racist tendencies do exist behind the scenes in the Houston front office, I agree it will need to be cleaned up in order for the organization to be viable long term. But that if just an "if" scenario at this current juncture, and until I hear otherwise from Watson or one of his representatives, that does not appear to be a deciding factor.

These accusations should not be thrown around casually, that's all. Where they are indeed baseless, it only serves to undermine legitimate critiques of race relations. You think you're doing Watson favors, but he's a grown a** man who can handle his own. If it is because of racism, I have no doubt he would let it be know loud and clear.

 

 

There is a lot of common sense here. Great post

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's getting nasty...Read the "Texans should teach Deshaun a lesson" post on here...As a young black millennial its a hard to ignore the racial undertones 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I read that Watson will likely approve a trade to any team that is "not the Texans."  So that should simplify things a bit.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Weird to me how when other players held out race wasn't brought up yet the same critiques were there about "honor your contract" "you made a commitment" etc etc etc

 

Why is this saga turning into a race thing? falling victim to the "everything in todays world is about race" card or is it due to past events as mentioned in 2017? Feels like a reach by the media spinning this into a race thing tbh just my 2 cents

 

Looks like Jets could be a real possibility though, the shine on ole Darnold (was there ever any?) has seem to have worn off

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, kmoore1521 said:

Weird to me how when other players held out race wasn't brought up yet the same critiques were there about "honor your contract" "you made a commitment" etc etc etc

 

Why is this saga turning into a race thing? falling victim to the "everything in todays world is about race" card or is it due to past events as mentioned in 2017? Feels like a reach by the media spinning this into a race thing tbh just my 2 cents

 

Looks like Jets could be a real possibility though, the shine on ole Darnold (was there ever any?) has seem to have worn off

Probably just the state of the culture in the US. I see it as Deshaun Watson trying to strong arm an NFL franchise into giving him more ownership power similar to how some NBA star players have basically been handed the keys to the franchise in both input to hiring of front office personnel and bringing in teammates.

I just don't ever see that happening in the NFL because of the sheer amount of players that comprise an entire team. QB is the closest it gets to a position player in the NFL having more power than other positions, but there is far too much going on in the NFL to involve the QB or star players heavily in all decision making. It is beyond their capabilities in most cases. And this isn't a 5-player team sport dominated by one or two players on a team, like the NBA.

NFL players will continue to compare themselves to the NBA and want the extra power and guaranteed money, but the two sports aren't the same. I think a similar parallel can be drawn to how the US Women's soccer team is paid far less in comparison to their male counterparts. But even though the two sports are the same, the popularity and money behind female vs male is entirely different.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, devaster said:

NFL players will continue to compare themselves to the NBA and want the extra power and guaranteed money, but the two sports aren't the same. I think a similar parallel can be drawn to how the US Women's soccer team is paid far less in comparison to their male counterparts. But even though the two sports are the same, the popularity and money behind female vs male is entirely different.

Pretty stupid example, quite frankly.  The US Women soccer players were making less than their male counterparts, and yet the women's team was for more successful and generated far more money and ratings than did the men's team.

Race enters into it because the Texans have a history of racist statements and racist actions, as mentioned in this thread.  Second, is there a double standard at work?  Favre and Vermeil are all "shut up and play" but white QBs who made similar choices were not scrutinized in similar fashion, i.e. Favre himself, Carson Palmer, Eli and Elway during their respective drafts, Andrew Luck, and the like.

Edited by SharkSwimmer
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Pretty stupid example, quite frankly.  The US Women soccer players were making less than their male counterparts, and yet the women's team was for more successful and generated far more money and ratings than did the men's team.

Race enters into it because the Texans have a history of racist statements and racist actions, as mentioned in this thread.  Second, is there a double standard at work?  Favre and Vermeil are all "shut up and play" but white QBs who made similar choices were not scrutinized in similar fashion, i.e. Favre himself, Carson Palmer, Eli and Elway during their respective drafts, Andrew Luck, and the like.

And the comment about  "Deshaun Watson trying to strong arm an NFL franchise into giving him more ownership power" is simply ridiculous.  Ownership stated they wanted to involve him in management decisions. 

Please tell me how Deshaun is "strong-arming" the organization when he was invited to the table to provide his input?

 

    

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The "honor your commitment" comment for any non-fully guaranteed contract (if I recall, this means every player not named Kirk Cousins) in the NFL is completely silly. Teams cut players all the damn time and no one ever complains that the team should honor their end of the bargain.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, kmoore1521 said:

Weird to me how when other players held out race wasn't brought up yet the same critiques were there about "honor your contract" "you made a commitment" etc etc etc

 

Why is this saga turning into a race thing? falling victim to the "everything in todays world is about race" card or is it due to past events as mentioned in 2017? Feels like a reach by the media spinning this into a race thing tbh just my 2 cents

 

Looks like Jets could be a real possibility though, the shine on ole Darnold (was there ever any?) has seem to have worn off

Yes everything in today's world is about race especially in the NFL where the world is predominantly made up of black players (what is is? 70-75%?) but the percentage of black head coaches in the league does not represent diversity does it? 

But yes, it's about the "race card", but in the opposite meaning you've stated.  

Please don't get me started okay?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Pretty stupid example, quite frankly.  The US Women soccer players were making less than their male counterparts, and yet the women's team was for more successful and generated far more money and ratings than did the men's team.

Race enters into it because the Texans have a history of racist statements and racist actions, as mentioned in this thread.  Second, is there a double standard at work?  Favre and Vermeil are all "shut up and play" but white QBs who made similar choices were not scrutinized in similar fashion, i.e. Favre himself, Carson Palmer, Eli and Elway during their respective drafts, Andrew Luck, and the like.

All due respect - Favre repeatedly "threatened" GB with retirement to the point it became a running joke, Palmer became an injury nightmare (arm injury AFTER the Van-Oelhoffen low blow in the playoffs), Eli was roasted for his pre-draft choice, particularly in SD (see one of my fave images EVER below) and Elway was ALSO a draftee - not a member of the team who signed a rich extension - he just said he'd play baseball if the Colts drafted him. Luck doesn't fit here either as he had the crap beat out of him - was that some sort of ploy? - at this point I think not. The Stanford Architectural Design graduate had options. Watson just signed a multi-year extension already knowing how "racist" his team evidently is. I don't see the comparison to any of these white guys frankly, so fail to see the racism.

64569e33693e92edb3c53fc1aa33e9c1-origina

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SuperJoint said:

 

64569e33693e92edb3c53fc1aa33e9c1-origina

BTW - If Texans fans posted a similar likeness to Watson after he leaves (which seems inevitable) would that be racist

Edited by SuperJoint
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Eli and Elway are largely regarded as shrewd businessmen for manuevering their way out of San Diego and Baltimore, respectively.  Even though those were the teams that had the "rights" to their services (draft choice, under contract, who cares)?

But now you have the Texans with their plantation mentality and some of the NFL's leading (white) lights are warming up the "shut up and play" orchestra.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I think Eli and Elway are largely regarded as shrewd businessmen for manuevering their way out of San Diego and Baltimore, respectively.  Even though those were the teams that had the "rights" to their services (draft choice, under contract, who cares)?

But now you have the Texans with their plantation mentality and some of the NFL's leading (white) lights are warming up the "shut up and play" orchestra.

To me this is crazy. NFL is a meritocracy - always has been, always will. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SuperJoint said:

BTW - If Texans fans posted a similar likeness to Watson after he leaves (which seems inevitable) would that be racist

At the very least transphobic. That's not a good look for those Chargers fans, seen with 2021 eyes.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, theSPANKER said:

Yes everything in today's world is about race especially in the NFL where the world is predominantly made up of black players (what is is? 70-75%?) but the percentage of black head coaches in the league does not represent diversity does it? 

But yes, it's about the "race card", but in the opposite meaning you've stated.  

Please don't get me started okay?

I’d say neither percentage represents diversity.

As for Watson, I don’t blame him for wanting out of Houston, and Favre of all people judging him for it is pretty absurd.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jnormy said:

As for Watson, I don’t blame him for wanting out of Houston, and Favre of all people judging him for it is pretty absurd.

I agree with the first part (bolded) for other reasons.

Watson signed an extension last year to play for the evil racist Houston franchise. For 5 more years. That would be after his top WR was traded away for evidently also "racist" purposes.  Favre was constantly threatening retirement while playing for the deal (whatever it was) he signed.

Please educate me as to how these situations are similar. If some posters' version of the truth are correct, Watson is entirely justified for welching on the deal he signed for facts he was aware of at the time he signed it?

Explain.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, SuperJoint said:

To me this is crazy. NFL is a meritocracy - always has been, always will. 

You know the NFL's been around for over 100 years, right?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, trilly said:

You know the NFL's been around for over 100 years, right?

You let me know where the relevance is of this and I'll tell you what I know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, SuperJoint said:

You let me know where the relevance is of this and I'll tell you what I know.

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/players-legends/evolution-of-the-nfl-player/the-reintegration-of-the-nfl/

The NFL even acknowledges its own racism in the past, that was a direct refutation that it's always been a meritocracy - factually, it hasn't.

Putting the race issue aside, the NFL is very much nepotistic and a good old boys network - just look at all the terrible coaching retreads.

Edited by trilly
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...