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5 minutes ago, SuperJoint said:

And Tua was drafted 5th overall as a Heisman QB. Apple here, orange there.

As long as we're comparing Tua/Tom Brady - I need to skim the record books for games by Brady - at any stage of his career - where he threw for 361 yards on 58(?) attempts with 1 TD and 3 picks. Or 20-26 for 145 yards and 1 TD. 

The allure to Tua was his legs in addition to arm. In 10 games played he had 36 rushes for 109 yards and 3 TDs. Not "alluring" imo.

I know I’m giving you a hard time. But to me we saw a weird scenario where a guy is still adjusting to playbook and speed of the game. 

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11 hours ago, SuperJoint said:

You know I have the ultimate respect DHC, but having seen this game as long as I have - seen many rookies over the years - his season ranks in the bottom 5 of rookie "performances" at QB in their first season that I've seen. He was awful - "incompetent" at best. Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell I can actually say were worse - Heath Shuler is probably another one, Andre Ware - I'm sure there were a few others not that it matters. 

Sure I understand the circumstances - but the aforementioned Herbert and Burrow were working under the same. Fitzpatrick was lighting it up with the likes of Parker, Grant et al. I'm not disputing your point that Burrow and Herbert have better weapons, but that is not all Tua's miserable stats can be attributed to imo. A competent (which is the minimum standard I'd hope a rookie can reach) QB - with his skills - could theoretically make stuff happen. That did not occur. This was a team that was competing for a playoff spot down the stretch while getting nothing from the QB. They easily would be in the playoffs all things being equal - except Fitz @QB rather than Tua. That is a fact imo.

For my part -  I'm stuck with Tua. I'm getting him at a good price in a dynasty next year but I'm not really that hyped about it. Like I said he has work to do.

 

Rookie year Josh Allen had 10 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 12 starts in 2018.

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Did something happen to the font in this forum? Today it is white shrunk now on the right side I have announcements top posters in this thread images that was posted in this thread... etc. 

 

Anybody else find anything different?

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7 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

Did something happen to the font in this forum? Today it is white shrunk now on the right side I have announcements top posters in this thread images that was posted in this thread... etc. 

 

Anybody else find anything different?

The whole layout is different and a sidebar has been introduced. It's a major change.

If you don't see all of it, refresh your cache (or go to the desktop version which has more visible changes). If you had a browser plugin to change the look and feel, turn it off.

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4 minutes ago, Boudewijn said:

The whole layout is different and a sidebar has been introduced. It's a major change.

If you don't see all of it, refresh your cache (or go to the desktop version which has more visible changes). If you had a browser plugin to change the look and feel, turn it off.

Have any ideas how to make things work like before on an iPad 

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11 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

Have any ideas how to make things work like before on an iPad 

I personally love the change, but if you're not happy, I assume there will be a relevant topic in the "Fantasy Feedback" forum?

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4 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Rookie year Josh Allen had 10 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 12 starts in 2018.

But rookie year Allen didn’t have access to the level of training and coaching Tua has had. Does Tua have the ceiling for continued improvement?

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43 minutes ago, hoppychokes said:

But rookie year Allen didn’t have access to the level of training and coaching Tua has had. Does Tua have the ceiling for continued improvement?

 

Do you mean in college?

 

Tua's offensive coaches in the NFL have not been very good.

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12 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Rookie year Josh Allen had 10 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 12 starts in 2018.

Yep that's pretty bad but it wasn't much of a surprise considering his accuracy issues @ WYO. He didn't come in with nearly the credentials or hype that Tua did - he was considered a bit of a project that was a few years away when he was drafted, so I don't consider his rookie season as much of a bust as Tua's. BUF was taking a lot of heat drafting Allen as high as they did - expectations were lower. Of course Allen now is considered one of the top young players at the position - and I do realize that can happen for Tua as well. Like I said - he has a lot of work to do.

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2 hours ago, SuperJoint said:

Yep that's pretty bad but it wasn't much of a surprise considering his accuracy issues @ WYO. He didn't come in with nearly the credentials or hype that Tua did - he was considered a bit of a project that was a few years away when he was drafted, so I don't consider his rookie season as much of a bust as Tua's. BUF was taking a lot of heat drafting Allen as high as they did - expectations were lower. Of course Allen now is considered one of the top young players at the position - and I do realize that can happen for Tua as well. Like I said - he has a lot of work to do.

 

1st season coming off of hip surgery, no training camp, no preseason. I think a little bit of slack can be cut for not coming out of the gate as hot as 16 year vet Ryan Fitzpatrick. Especially when you research Chan Gailey and Ryan Fitzpatrick's previous history together. He was without a doubt more comfortable calling plays with Fitz than with Tua. I think that played a part in some of Tua's erratic play.

 

If you want to sell Tua I'm sure plenty.of people would trade for him but I wouldn't be giving up on his talent so fast because he showed plenty coming off a hip injury and all the other factors he faced, Chan as OC, most his WRs hurt, conservative playcalls. 

 

If the dolphins trade for Julio, draft Devonta smith and Najee Harris then you wouldn't like Tua's prospects better? Cause that's a real possibility. I'd take that offense over the chargers or bengals, i.e. burrows and Herbert.

 

 

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Just now, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

If the dolphins trade for Julio, draft Devonta smith and Najee Harris then you wouldn't like Tua's prospects better? Cause that's a real possibility. I'd take that offense over the chargers or bengals, i.e. burrows and Herbert.

I told you I'm keeping him. In your scenario of course I'd be stoked. It's discouraging to see him severely outperformed by Burrow and Herbert. The way Tua was playing to close out the campaign - who cares if Julio Jones and Smith are there. Throw a 3 yard pass may work I guess with those guys. So I'd be stoked.

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15 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Rookie year Josh Allen had 10 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 12 starts in 2018.

Allen had elite rushing stats in his rookie season.

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2 hours ago, SuperJoint said:

Yep that's pretty bad but it wasn't much of a surprise considering his accuracy issues @ WYO. He didn't come in with nearly the credentials or hype that Tua did - he was considered a bit of a project that was a few years away when he was drafted, so I don't consider his rookie season as much of a bust as Tua's. BUF was taking a lot of heat drafting Allen as high as they did - expectations were lower. Of course Allen now is considered one of the top young players at the position - and I do realize that can happen for Tua as well. Like I said - he has a lot of work to do.

Herbert was also considered a little bit of a project too. Tua should be given another chance by Miami unless they can really swing a deal to get Watson. Tua wasnt bad but I do think its fair to question his talent level after what we saw this past season. 

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8 hours ago, SuperJoint said:

I told you I'm keeping him. In your scenario of course I'd be stoked. It's discouraging to see him severely outperformed by Burrow and Herbert. The way Tua was playing to close out the campaign - who cares if Julio Jones and Smith are there. Throw a 3 yard pass may work I guess with those guys. So I'd be stoked.

Tagovailoa went 6-3 as the team’s starter, completing 64.1 percent of his passes for 1,814 yards with 11 touchdowns and five interceptions.

“We learned that he’s healthy. He still has a lot of his mobility. He’s accurate,” Flores said. “In the Arizona game, he brings us back in the fourth quarter. He brought us back in the Kansas City game. He also didn’t play as well in other games. He had some bright spots and not so bright spots. That’s the life of a rookie. If he continues to learn, study, stay healthy, get stronger, work on his footwork and his eye progression and pick up where he left off then I think we’re going to be happy with his improvement.”

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Writing a rookie QB off after he came back from an injury in a year without nearly any preperation is insane to me. Let him play next year and then we will see.

That's some Skip Bayless/Steven A Smith level take.

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I think Tua can be successful if he can utilize his legs more.

Also it would help him and Miami if they took the necessary measurements to improve the run game.

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On 1/15/2021 at 6:44 AM, thebadferret said:

Writing a rookie QB off after he came back from an injury in a year without nearly any preperation is insane to me. Let him play next year and then we will see.

That's some Skip Bayless/Steven A Smith level take.

Minus the injury, people wrote similar things about Rosen after his rookie year. Sometimes players don't have it.

It doesn't hurt a team to draft another QB high on a rookie contract if they can afford to. Like the Cards did with Murray. Too many teams marry themselves to their original highly drafted QB pick. Trading for Watson and paying him is a different story, but if it doesn't work out you can always have Tua around on his rookie contract. Tua will be cheap the next 3 seasons, and there is the 5th year option.

There are so many examples of teams that pass on great QB talent because they are stuck with their current highly touted rookie contract QB. Those opportunities don't always come around. I'd rather hit on Watson, since I believe he is a known elite talent, than take the risk that Tua develops into one. Give me the known commodity. Maybe Tua becomes a hall of famer, but the history of the NFL would bet on that not happening.

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I think when you put 2020 in the books, the assessment on Tua's rookie year will be that it was OK, but not Wow/Great.  Unfortunately we live in a world where you're always being compared to the next guy.  And when you look at the years that Herbert and Burrow had and the optimism that their teams carry with them going forward, there's no comparison.  It's why like a guy like Mitch Trubisky will always be considered a failure because he isn't Mahomes or Watson.  Even if he did manage to have a good year and make it to the Pro Bowl once (albeit as an injury replacement).  Tua is going to be fighting off comparisons to Burrow and Herbert for the rest of their careers.

The proof will be in the pudding for the Dolphins.  Does management really believe that he is their future?  How do they deal with these players who are saying they weren't wowed by him in practice and that he looked ordinary?  How does Tua gain control of this offense and team knowing this is the talk?  I suppose just like all of us would.  Put your head down, practice your craft, and win people over by performance.  It's a hill to climb that he likely thought he wouldn't have to do.  But that was what unfolded for him this year.  If he's going to be successful, management needs to get rid of Fitz and push their chips all-in.  But it's a big bet to make.  Especially when you could also have any one of these top tier QBs in this loaded draft.  Can't wait to see what they do with their pick.

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5 hours ago, devaster said:

Minus the injury, people wrote similar things about Rosen after his rookie year. Sometimes players don't have it.

It doesn't hurt a team to draft another QB high on a rookie contract if they can afford to. Like the Cards did with Murray. Too many teams marry themselves to their original highly drafted QB pick. Trading for Watson and paying him is a different story, but if it doesn't work out you can always have Tua around on his rookie contract. Tua will be cheap the next 3 seasons, and there is the 5th year option.

There are so many examples of teams that pass on great QB talent because they are stuck with their current highly touted rookie contract QB. Those opportunities don't always come around. I'd rather hit on Watson, since I believe he is a known elite talent, than take the risk that Tua develops into one. Give me the known commodity. Maybe Tua becomes a hall of famer, but the history of the NFL would bet on that not happening.

Yeah, minus the injury, minus Covid...

If I was the Dolphins and I had the chance to get Watson, I'd do that, too. But drafting another QB with their first pick? I don't think..

My comment was more about the general "he's a bust" vibes.

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1 hour ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

Would be interesting to see watson for tua and 1..3.

 

Texans could get tua and potentially Devonta smith and the dolphins get Watson.

Doesn’t seem anywhere close to enough

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