Jump to content
NBC Sports EDGE Forums

Clyde Edwards-Helaire 2020 Outlook


thebadferret
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, MrCantaloupe said:

 

🤦‍♂️

Damian Williams is a 28 year old RB who has trouble consistently pushing the ball to the second level and can't break big plays on his own. Over 85 career regular season games, he has only 7 rushes for more than 20 yards. He's added 2 more in 6 playoff games.

Go watch the runs I referred to:

84 yard run vs. Chargers

91 yard run vs. Vikings

These 2 runs accounted for more than 35% of his 2019 total, and increased his career total by nearly 17%. Without these runs, he averaged only 2.96 yards per carry. This isn't cherry picking, it's presenting his rushing production with proper context.

To be fair, here is his 38 yard TD run in the Super Bowl:

38 yard run vs. 49ers

Two defenders run into each other, the safety takes a poor angle, DW goes around the edge virtually untouched. Take that run away and DW finishes the playoffs rushing 45 times for 158 yards (3.5 yards per carry

The Chiefs offensive line was top 10 in not allowing rushes to be stuffed at the line of scrimmage, but the team was 4th worst in big plays gained on the ground. Guess who's fault that is...

Let me guess: the dude who barely played any games while healthy last season?

Citing his number of regular-season games played in relation to his total number of explosive runs constitutes “proper context”?!  Does omitting he fact that most of those games came on a terrible team under an atrocious HC behind terrible O-lines further delineate said context?

Edited by BMcP
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BMcP said:

Let me guess: the dude who barely played any games while healthy last season?

Citing his number of regular-season games played in relation to his total number of explosive runs constitutes “proper context”?!  Does omitting he fact that most of those games came on a terrible team under an atrocious HC behind terrible O-lines further delineate said context?

That's all fair too. At the end of the day, stats don't tell the whole story. The film shows me everything I need to know. Just wanted to be sure people aren't thinking they're getting a 4.5 yards per carry guy in an explosive offensive when drafting Damien Williams. That's not who he is, despite last years stats saying otherwise.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

CEH is going to be a stud. The biggest problem I've seen in a few leagues that started, were people were taking him between 15-30. Extremely early when other rbs are on the board. In keeper and dynasty the 2nd round plus is fine, because of long-term value. Williams isn't going away early. The season is going to start with 60-40 and as CEH has less time to learn, that number is going to go up for Williams. Williams could get hurt early as he seems to do and CEH takes it. The hype is without a doubt coming based off of Hunt. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, dontclapGonorrhea said:

CEH is going to be a stud. The biggest problem I've seen in a few leagues that started, were people were taking him between 15-30. Extremely early when other rbs are on the board. In keeper and dynasty the 2nd round plus is fine, because of long-term value. Williams isn't going away early. The season is going to start with 60-40 and as CEH has less time to learn, that number is going to go up for Williams. Williams could get hurt early as he seems to do and CEH takes it. The hype is without a doubt coming based off of Hunt. 

 

"The hype is without a doubt coming based off of Hunt."

 

And Jamaal Charles and Shady McCoy and Brian Westbrook and almost every other RB coached by Andy Reid. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/17/2020 at 9:36 PM, pushaZ said:

History of Chiefs RB forum flames:

 

Thomas Jones v. Jamaal Charles

Nobody v. Spencer Ware

Nobody v. Kareem Hunt

Everyone lost

Damien Williams v. Clyde Edwards-Helaire

 

Challenger won every time

 

I corrected 2, 3 and 4 for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/17/2020 at 10:18 PM, BMcP said:

Let me guess: the dude who barely played any games while healthy last season?

Citing his number of regular-season games played in relation to his total number of explosive runs constitutes “proper context”?!  Does omitting he fact that most of those games came on a terrible team under an atrocious HC behind terrible O-lines further delineate said context?


i agree with you context is everything. But when Kenyan drake was on that same dolphins team with the same bad line and same bad coach And he looked like a monster and the British kid who’s name I can’t remember did too. When Williams got his chances he looked poor then got hurt. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:


i agree with you context is everything. But when Kenyan drake was on that same dolphins team with the same bad line and same bad coach And he looked like a monster and the British kid who’s name I can’t remember did too. When Williams got his chances he looked poor then got hurt. 

When we think about “context,” we need to do more than just factor in stat-lines.  Drake played at ‘Bama along with some dude named Derrick Henry and was the third RB drafted in his class - DW only played for two seasons at Oklahoma and ended up not even being drafted.  Meaning the league never assumed these were two players of the same caliber, and neither should we - Drake is just a better player overall with more/better collegiate experience, and we shouldn’t be surprised if he outperformed DW on the same terrible team.

Similarly, Ajayi was drafted in the fifth round after three years playing at Boise State and finishing his final college year by literally setting school records in both rushing yards and TDs - good for fifth-overall in the nation and second-overall in the nation overall.  Plus, he was actually drafted by the Dolphins.  Again, no one expected Ajayi to be on par with DW - in his healthy prime, he was simply a much better player.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BMcP said:

When we think about “context,” we need to do more than just factor in stat-lines.  Drake played at ‘Bama along with some dude named Derrick Henry and was the third RB drafted in his class - DW only played for two seasons at Oklahoma and ended up not even being drafted.  Meaning the league never assumed these were two players of the same caliber, and neither should we - Drake is just a better player overall with more/better collegiate experience, and we shouldn’t be surprised if he outperformed DW on the same terrible team.

Similarly, Ajayi was drafted in the fifth round after three years playing at Boise State and finishing his final college year by literally setting school records in both rushing yards and TDs - good for fifth-overall in the nation and second-overall in the nation overall.  Plus, he was actually drafted by the Dolphins.  Again, no one expected Ajayi to be on par with DW - in his healthy prime, he was simply a much better player.


So you’re saying Damien Williams is not good then? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:


So you’re saying Damien Williams is not good then? 

when 21% of your points come off of two plays, the odds are he isn't. CEH will have the backfield sooner rather than later. First play against the Texans will be a wheel route and the rest is going to be history for the JAG of Dwill.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dontclapGonorrhea said:

when 21% of your points come off of two plays, the odds are he isn't. CEH will have the backfield sooner rather than later. First play against the Texans will be a wheel route and the rest is going to be history for the JAG of Dwill.

 

I mean I agree with you but I don’t think BMcP does Since he was defending him earlier in this page. Maybe im just ignorant and lost lol

Edited by Stonej14
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:

 

I mean I agree with you but I don’t think BMcP does Since he was defending him earlier in this page. Maybe im just ignorant and lost lol

It’s ok - I think you might have misinterpreted what I wrote.  I was simply explaining that, for purposes of understanding “context,” it’s important to do more than box-score gazing.  I think DW is plenty good - but not as talented as Drake and a younger and healthier Ajayi.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BMcP said:

It’s ok - I think you might have misinterpreted what I wrote.  I was simply explaining that, for purposes of understanding “context,” it’s important to do more than box-score gazing.  I think DW is plenty good - but not as talented as Drake and a younger and healthier Ajayi.

 

 

7 hours ago, BMcP said:

When we think about “context,” we need to do more than just factor in stat-lines.  Drake played at ‘Bama along with some dude named Derrick Henry and was the third RB drafted in his class - DW only played for two seasons at Oklahoma and ended up not even being drafted.  Meaning the league never assumed these were two players of the same caliber, and neither should we - Drake is just a better player overall with more/better collegiate experience, and we shouldn’t be surprised if he outperformed DW on the same terrible team.

Similarly, Ajayi was drafted in the fifth round after three years playing at Boise State and finishing his final college year by literally setting school records in both rushing yards and TDs - good for fifth-overall in the nation and second-overall in the nation overall.  Plus, he was actually drafted by the Dolphins.  Again, no one expected Ajayi to be on par with DW - in his healthy prime, he was simply a much better player.

 

Ok I see what your saying now.

Kenyan drake was out touched and out performed in Alabama by TJ yeldon for like 3 straight years and it wasn’t even close. Henry didn’t hold him back from playing. Saban lets all his backs get touches that year the bama pass game was poorer than usual and the other RBs weren’t performing so he road henry... as he should. Drake is a good talent in a great spot but I don’t think he is a world beater by any means. 

5th rounder jay ajayi who only had six games of 100 rushing yards in his entire NFL career while his knee did cut his career short I don’t think he was exactly a great. 
 

I think both these guys are/were good but they were not so good that they made other “good” backs look bad. But they are good enough to make bad backs look bad. And when DWill played in the same offense drake and ajayi played in he looked bad.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stonej14 said:

 

 

 

Ok I see what your saying now.

Kenyan drake was out touched and out performed in Alabama by TJ yeldon for like 3 straight years and it wasn’t even close. Henry didn’t hold him back from playing. Saban lets all his backs get touches that year the bama pass game was poorer than usual and the other RBs weren’t performing so he road henry... as he should. Drake is a good talent in a great spot but I don’t think he is a world beater by any means. 

5th rounder jay ajayi who only had six games of 100 rushing yards in his entire NFL career while his knee did cut his career short I don’t think he was exactly a great. 
 

I think both these guys are/were good but they were not so good that they made other “good” backs look bad. But they are good enough to make bad backs look bad. And when DWill played in the same offense drake and ajayi played in he looked bad.

 

Totally cool - I always say to each his own.  I’m not out to win the whole world over to my opinion.  But I did enjoy the discussion of backs of years past and present.

Heck, sometimes even the great Andy Reid gets it wrong and anoints a bad back his chosen starter.

Edited by BMcP
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don’t overpay for this guy in redraft.  Chiefs are telling us the same thing this offseason as last.    No one wanted to believe it would be a messy timeshare.  

 

”Once these guys come in the building and once you get this thing rolling, I think everyone kind of gels as a cohesive unit, but our situation is certainly good for Clyde Edwards-Helaire and Damien Williams because these guys will be really good complementary players to one another.”

Neither guy is expected to be the workhorse at the position, despite Edwards-Helaire’s draft pedigree.

“I certainly think it’s going to be a shared load,” Veach said. “Damien has been in this offense for a long time and certainly has shown what he can do on that playoff run. The guy’s a really good pass protector [and] can catch the football. I mean, both these guys can run and catch and certainly Damien will come in as the starting running back and Clyde will have to come in here and compete for playing time, which we think he’ll do. But I think it will be a one-two punch.”

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I realize the KC coaching staff really likes Damien Williams and they have certainly proved that over the past two seasons.  

On the other hand, the front office just used a FIRST round pick on Edwards-Hilaire.

The next time an organization uses a first round pick on a running back without having big plans for that running back, will be the first time.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Impreza178 said:

Don’t overpay for this guy in redraft.  Chiefs are telling us the same thing this offseason as last.    No one wanted to believe it would be a messy timeshare.  

 

”Once these guys come in the building and once you get this thing rolling, I think everyone kind of gels as a cohesive unit, but our situation is certainly good for Clyde Edwards-Helaire and Damien Williams because these guys will be really good complementary players to one another.”

Neither guy is expected to be the workhorse at the position, despite Edwards-Helaire’s draft pedigree.

“I certainly think it’s going to be a shared load,” Veach said. “Damien has been in this offense for a long time and certainly has shown what he can do on that playoff run. The guy’s a really good pass protector [and] can catch the football. I mean, both these guys can run and catch and certainly Damien will come in as the starting running back and Clyde will have to come in here and compete for playing time, which we think he’ll do. But I think it will be a one-two punch.”

 

CEH will blow every other rookie RB production out of the water by a wide margin.

 

Damien Williams has never handled more than 140 touches in a season. 

 

CEH is gonna handle the ball a lot, KC runs up the score, tons of scoring chances. I'd rather have him than miles sanders. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Impreza178 said:

Don’t overpay for this guy in redraft.  Chiefs are telling us the same thing this offseason as last.    No one wanted to believe it would be a messy timeshare.  

 

”Once these guys come in the building and once you get this thing rolling, I think everyone kind of gels as a cohesive unit, but our situation is certainly good for Clyde Edwards-Helaire and Damien Williams because these guys will be really good complementary players to one another.”

Neither guy is expected to be the workhorse at the position, despite Edwards-Helaire’s draft pedigree.

“I certainly think it’s going to be a shared load,” Veach said. “Damien has been in this offense for a long time and certainly has shown what he can do on that playoff run. The guy’s a really good pass protector [and] can catch the football. I mean, both these guys can run and catch and certainly Damien will come in as the starting running back and Clyde will have to come in here and compete for playing time, which we think he’ll do. But I think it will be a one-two punch.”

 

So someone asks Veach a question about the running back snaps (or something of that nature) and he responds saying he "thinks" it's going to be a "shared load", and we're making predictions with this? Why on Earth would Veach refer to this as anything but a competition?

This isn't a Thunder & Lighting type situation where each player brings something different to the game. They are not "complementary players". That's just coach speak. Having said that, only 5 running backs played more than 70% of the team's snaps in 2019, so it's a near certainty that both guys see the field.

CEH doesn't need to be a "workhorse" to justify an early round draft selection. A bunch of RB1s finished the year with low snap totals:

Aaron Jones - 663

Austin Ekeler - 599

Derrick Henry - 589

Dalvin Cook - 604

Alvin Kamara - 626

Mark Ingram - 504

I would consider his floor to be James White (RB18, 493 snaps, ~200 points), but I think there's a reasonable hope for an Ekeler type season (RB4, 599 snaps, ~300 points) and a pipe-dream hope for weekly upside nearing that of CMC (RB1, 1056 snaps, ~450 points), especially later in the year or if injuries strike.

Nothing wrong with investing an early round pick if you have the appetite for risk.

Edited by MrCantaloupe
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

CEH will blow every other rookie RB production out of the water by a wide margin.

 

Damien Williams has never handled more than 140 touches in a season. 

 

CEH is gonna handle the ball a lot, KC runs up the score, tons of scoring chances. I'd rather have him than miles sanders. 

 

DW handled more than that just last season in six starts....in the regular season alone.

Forgive me for saying so, but I strongly, strongly feel like you’d be making a mistake to take him over entrenched starter Miles Sanders in any re-draft - particularly after what he accomplished in basically half a season as a rook.

Edited by BMcP
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, BMcP said:

DW handled more than that just last season in six starts....in the regular season alone.

Forgive me for saying so, but I strongly, strongly feel like you’d be making a mistake to take him over entrenched starter Miles Sanders in any re-draft - particularly after what he accomplished in basically half a season as a rook.

Pending where your draft position is. If I had the last pick and first pick of the 2nd and 3rd, I would double tap them to pair with Barkley or CMAC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dontclapGonorrhea said:

Pending where your draft position is. If I had the last pick and first pick of the 2nd and 3rd, I would double tap them to pair with Barkley or CMAC.

If those guys drop to your pick at the 2nd/3rd turn, you’re already well on your way to winning that league.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/20/2020 at 9:58 PM, BMcP said:

DW handled more than that just last season in six starts....in the regular season alone.

Forgive me for saying so, but I strongly, strongly feel like you’d be making a mistake to take him over entrenched starter Miles Sanders in any re-draft - particularly after what he accomplished in basically half a season as a rook.

 

So he has never had more than 141 touches in a regular season? Where fantasy matters?

 

140 vs 141

 

Lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

So he has never had more than 141 touches in a regular season? Where fantasy matters?

 

140 vs 141

 

Lol

I think Derrick Henry got 141 touches in a single game, didn't he?

:D

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

So he has never had more than 141 touches in a regular season? Where fantasy matters?

 

140 vs 141

 

Lol

Ok - obviously my point was to show he’s capable of handling more than 140 touches per year, all told.

Heck, if you all care about is “where fantasy matters,” why are you even factoring in anyone’s Week 17 touches?  
 

Lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BMcP said:

Ok - obviously my point was to show he’s capable of handling more than 140 touches per year, all told.

Heck, if you all care about is “where fantasy matters,” why are you even factoring in anyone’s Week 17 touches?  
 

Lol.

 

Cause ESPN championship is weeks 16 and 17. 

 

This is a fantasy website after all.

 

Point being Williams has never handled over 141 touches in a season.

 

Bodes well for CEH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...