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Ke'Shawn Vaughn 2020 Outlook


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On 4/26/2020 at 7:05 PM, LostAtSea said:

More terrible tape. This guy is not a good blocker on tape despite the lying twitter warriors. Imo Vaughn isn’t an NFL starting level RB, or even close to it. 
I recommend watching the tape and staying off Twitter, never paying for bullshit analysis from predatory liars.

 

the NFL hasn't released the 2020 schedule yet, so maybe there's a chance tampa bay plays twice against vanderbuilt.

vaughn can put up 2 TDs vs them. so there's that. 

On 4/28/2020 at 8:29 PM, pepper11 said:

This dude is going to be an absolute stud. He looks like James White when he catches the ball, Frank Gore when he is pass blocking, and a faster slightly smaller but still pretty upright version of Demarco Murray when he one cuts his way to the endzone. I dont see how you can possibly look at this guys tape and come away unimpressed.

 

are you on the right thread? i mean, did you intend to post that here or in the d'andre swift thread? 

i keep returning to vaughn, thinking i may have missed something, and then i watch his tapes and it reconfirms my stance: serviceable in redraft, not a long-term contender in dynasty. if there's a tape vs a viable opponent that flaunts vaughn's prowess, please post. 

 

On 4/26/2020 at 8:03 PM, Boudewijn said:

Come on guys, what kind of pissing contest is this? Let's get back to football.

 

pissing contest might be the highlight of this thread.

ke’shawn vaughn will be as exciting as eating cinnabon on the lawn watching tron.

thumb_like-genghis-khan-wearing-sean-joh

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You actually play in leagues where you can drop guys on your bench after they have already played?! That's whack

Arians did identify Vaughn as having a 3-down skill set, but when asked whether he was looking for & found David Johnson, he quickly stated that Vaughn is not that player. Already noted & Aria

😒 Another Thursday hype bust?

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3 minutes ago, Sack Exchange said:

 

the NFL hasn't released the 2020 schedule yet, so maybe there's a chance tampa bay plays twice against vanderbuilt.

vaughn can put up 2 TDs vs them. so there's that. 

 

are you on the right thread? i mean, did you intend to post that here or in the d'andre swift thread? 

i keep returning to vaughn, thinking i may have missed something, and then i watch his tapes and it reconfirms my stance: serviceable in redraft, not a long-term contender in dynasty. if there's a tape vs a viable opponent that flaunts vaughn's prowess, please post. 

 

 

pissing contest might be the highlight of this thread.

ke’shawn vaughn will be as exciting as eating cinnabon on the lawn watching tron.

thumb_like-genghis-khan-wearing-sean-joh


😤 An insult to the great American institution that is Cinnabon.   

 

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On 4/26/2020 at 12:29 PM, Impreza178 said:

"Ah yes that time of year when every rookie is destined for immediate greatness. Vaughn is a COP at best in 2020. 120 touches would be huge for him. Arians is notoriously tough on rookies and Rojo has garnered as much or more praise as any other back in the league from TB bosses. It's Jones’ show folks. Don’t confuse yourselves any further."

 

Exactly so! Below is the play that got Ronald Jones benched. For those envisioning Vaughn, be aware that this is a really $h!++y play. I'm sorry but there's ample enough blame to go around! Jones, the QB, the WRs lined up to the strong side, the TE to that side, whose ever responsible for the blocking assignment, the OC or whoever called this play & yes, the HC! Now, I couldn't get this thing to do what I wanted, so if the reader can find a version of this play that can be enlarged, the quality remain high & able to pause it in a timely manner, by all means.

Okay, so the Bucs are on the road in Jacksonville, they're on their 33 yard line, with a 1st & 10. It's well into the 3rd qtr & they're up 25-0 on the scoreboard! Where is the balance here, seemingly the QB doesn't have even one other play he can audible to. The Jags bring six on this play & the double-dog coming off the weak side is not well-disguised. Jones is flanked to that side & assigned to block. He steps up into it, it's clean & attempts to cross the formation to pick up the DB coming off the other side. He of course is late getting there, but the breakdown is not entirely his. 

The TE is assigned to block & he opts to help the OT account for the DE. But the DE takes an inside track, that TE needs to immediately account for the edge & he doesn't do it. Given there was no check down, if there's nothing there he turns & faces his QB. That's what we should've seen him do. The WRs, no hot read, that CB lined up across from them that blitzes... they both run deep verticals into coverage, which is concerning even w/o a blitz. Winston, trying to make something out of this when he should just fold the tent. 

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/12/01/jaguars-andrew-wingard-sack-fumble-buccaneers/

Edited by markrc99
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11 minutes ago, markrc99 said:

 

 

Exactly so! Below is the play that got Ronald Jones benched. For those envisioning Vaughn, be aware that this is a really $h!++y play. I'm sorry but there's ample enough blame to go around! Jones, the QB, the WRs lined up to the strong side, the TE to that side, whose ever responsible for the blocking assignment, the OC or whoever called this play & yes, the HC! Now, I couldn't get this thing to do what I wanted, so if the reader can find a version of this play that can be enlarged, the quality remain high & able to pause it in a timely manner, by all means.

Okay, so the Bucs are on the road in Jacksonville, they're on their 33 yard line, with a 1st & 10. It's well into the 3rd qtr & they're up 25-0 on the scoreboard! Where is the balance here, seemingly the QB doesn't have even one other play he can audible to. The Jags bring six on this play & the double-dog coming off the weak side is not well-disguised. Jones is flanked to that side & assigned to block. He steps up into it, it's clean & attempts to cross the formation to pick up the DB coming off the other side. He of course is late getting there, but the breakdown is not entirely his. 

The TE is assigned to block & he opts to help the OT account for the DE. But the DE takes an inside track, that TE needs to immediately account for the edge & he doesn't do it. Given there was no check down, if there's nothing there he turns & faces his QB. That's what we should've seen him do. The WRs, no hot read, that CB lined up across from them that blitzes... they both run deep verticals into coverage, which is concerning even w/o a blitz. Winston, trying to make something out of this when he should just fold the tent. 

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/12/01/jaguars-andrew-wingard-sack-fumble-buccaneers/


good breakdown Mark.    Arians is maddening with his tough love for young players.  Benching guys like Rojo and Howard entire halves or games for every error in a mediocre transition season is cutting off your nose to spite your face.  
 

Those guys need every opportunity to work on their craft in game situations-  and you need every opportunity to evaluate their potential and role moving forward.    That’s Arians for you.

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5 hours ago, BMcP said:

I’d pump the brakes just a bit here - RoJo is a former second-rounder who improved dramatically last season, particularly as a pass-catcher out of the backfield (10 YPR, 309 yards).  Arians has gone out of his way to praise him publicly on multiple occasions.  They aren’t going to just kick him to the curb because the team drafted another RB in the third round this year.  (NB: I do like Vaughn quite a bit - especially in dynasty.)

 

Question for you: who was there to compete with Ronald Jones last year?

Read this blurb. Arians went into the draft looking for a pass catching back. Who did he target, KeShawn Vaughn. This means that RoJo will not be catching passes, regardless of him doing so last year. If he falters as a runner, then there is an easy path to Vaughn taking over as the majority leader of the backfield touches. Like I said, this are the type of upside guys you want to identify in fantasy.

Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians said the team will look to add a "pass-catching back" in free agency and/or the draft.

“We’d love to have a pass-catching back," Arians said. “There are little pieces of the puzzle, and the draft is going to be huge for us." This all but rules out Ronald Jones for an every-down role despite Peyton Barber's recent exit to Washington. Jones did permit a sack, two hits, and five hurries on 49 pass blocking snaps last year, which likely contributes to Arians' desire to add a veteran runner Tom Brady can count on behind the line of scrimmage. Barring an underwhelming Day 3 addition, Jones will likely have to win a goal line role out of camp in order to return RB3 value in his age-23 season.

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

I think you may already know the answer - so instead I’ll leave this for perusal:

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/jason-licht-bucs-faith-ronald-jones-add-rb-nfl-draft-2020

 

Lol yea you gotta love coach speak and Arians is one of the kings of it. Why wouldn't they express support from Jones? Nobody is saying Vaughn is going to walk in day 1 and be the starter, however, he was identified to be the pass catching back. He is playing with a QB that loves to throw to his RB's. So, like I said, Vaughn is the type of guy you want in fantasy because he will be used a pass-catcher but can also run between the tackles. He has the makings of a guy that has a direct path to being the most valuable RB on a potent offense. If you look around the league, Ronald Jones is one of the least intimidating starting RB's for another back to unseat. Once again, these are the types of situations you want to identify in fantasy. 

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Just now, paulwall29 said:

 

Lol yea you gotta love coach speak and Arians is one of the kings of it. Why wouldn't they express support from Jones? Nobody is saying Vaughn is going to walk in day 1 and be the starter, however, he was identified to be the pass catching back. He is playing with a QB that loves to throw to his RB's. So, like I said, Vaughn is the type of guy you want in fantasy because he will be used a pass-catcher but can also run between the tackles. He has the makings of a guy that has a direct path to being the most valuable RB on a potent offense. If you look around the league, Ronald Jones is one of the least intimidating starting RB's for another back to unseat. Once again, these are the types of situations you want to identify in fantasy. 

Arians is actually a pretty straight-shooter, relatively speaking - he’s completely unafraid to speak his mind and even throw his own players under the bus publicly.

I’m not debating that Vaughn will have a Day 1 role as a pass-catcher.  Nor do I doubt that that is an enticing situation for a Brady RB.  I’m just advising caution in thinking that Vaughn is an imminent threat to unseat RoJo as the lead back in this offense.

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12 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Arians is actually a pretty straight-shooter, relatively speaking - he’s completely unafraid to speak his mind and even throw his own players under the bus publicly.

I’m not debating that Vaughn will have a Day 1 role as a pass-catcher.  Nor do I doubt that that is an enticing situation for a Brady RB.  I’m just advising caution in thinking that Vaughn is an imminent threat to unseat RoJo as the lead back in this offense.

 

I have no stake in this but if I were a RoJo owner in dynasty I would be terrified.

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I'm taking Rojo without a second thought at whatever his ADP is. He was the only Bucs RB worth a damn between the tackles last season and even made some big plays in the passing game when given an opportunity. It took Arians far too long to give him the carries he deserved. If he can improve in pass protection and still get a few targets a game he's at worst going to be an RB2. I don't think Vaughn is going to see the field much unless Rojo royally messes up in pass protection.

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Just now, sSektor said:

I'm taking Rojo without a second thought at whatever his ADP is. He was the only Bucs RB worth a damn between the tackles last season and even made some big plays in the passing game when given an opportunity. It took Arians far too long to give him the carries he deserved. If he can improve in pass protection and still get a few targets a game he's at worst going to be an RB2. I don't think Vaughn is going to see the field much unless Rojo royally messes up in pass protection.

 

Yea, you're right. The the Bucs cut a RB that had 180 touches last year, said they wanted to target a back that can catch passes in the draft, and then drafted one with significant draft capital...but he def won't see the field much lol. 

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7 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

Yea, you're right. The the Bucs cut a RB that had 180 touches last year, said they wanted to target a back that can catch passes in the draft, and then drafted one with significant draft capital...but he def won't see the field much lol. 


Between Rojo, Ogunbowale, and Arians lack of trust in rookie RBs I don't see why you would bank on consistent opportunity for Vaughn this year. It took CJ and Ellington injuries for Arians to finally unleash an electric rookie called David Johnson back in 2015.

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2 hours ago, sSektor said:


Between Rojo, Ogunbowale, and Arians lack of trust in rookie RBs I don't see why you would bank on consistent opportunity for Vaughn this year. It took CJ and Ellington injuries for Arians to finally unleash an electric rookie called David Johnson back in 2015.

 

I think it is a very similar situation to that one. The difference is Ronald Jones is not a seasoned vet and we already saw him go in the doghouse for fumbling last year. There is no reason that Vaughn can't show enough to become the go-to earlier than David Johnson did. I never said that Vaughn will walk in and be the starter. I said that this is a situation that is ripe for him to come in and take over and that those are the situations you want to target in the lat mid-round. There's only a handful of situations like that around the league and they are ones to target because the backs come at a discount. I like Vaughn much more than Jones, hence he is the back to target in this backfield.

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On 5/2/2020 at 2:09 PM, paulwall29 said:

"Lol yea you gotta love coach speak and Arians is one of the kings of it. Why wouldn't they express support from Jones? Nobody is saying Vaughn is going to walk in day 1 and be the starter, however, he was identified to be the pass catching back. He is playing with a QB that loves to throw to his RB's. So, like I said, Vaughn is the type of guy you want in fantasy because he will be used a pass-catcher but can also run between the tackles. He has the makings of a guy that has a direct path to being the most valuable RB on a potent offense. If you look around the league, Ronald Jones is one of the least intimidating starting RB's for another back to unseat. Once again, these are the types of situations you want to identify in fantasy."

 

Arians did identify Vaughn as having a 3-down skill set, but when asked whether he was looking for & found David Johnson, he quickly stated that Vaughn is not that player. Already noted & Arians said as much, something similar occurred here, that the player he actually wanted had just come off the board, meaning, Antonio Gibson. Because they needed to add depth & their next selection wasn't until what amounts to the 1st pick of the 6th RD, I think they reached for Vaughn. Why they opted for Vaughn over Zack Moss, I don't know about that. Reviewing Vaughn's tape I didn't see anything as a receiver that would represent a difference-maker in his quest to unseat Jones jr. In fact, while I didn't find all the tape I would've wanted, I see a better ball-carrier than receiver. He has a 2nd gear, but it's as it's he needs to see his run track & it has to be a straight line. Once he is up to speed, he's a sprinter, there's no change of direction. 

Vaughn has some tools in his box, makes good use of his lateral wiggle & vision. That's likely what they like & where he's limited, perhaps they can do something about? One area I'm certain about, while he's low to the ground, he takes a lot of hits to the chest. As others have already noted, he lacks that quick-twitch suddenness in the backfield. Many of his longer runs, well blocked. Kept getting fed the ball even though they were down by multiple scores. Ball skills are good, I didn't see him extend away from the body to pull in a pass, but he catches with his hands, which is a good 80% of it. 

Some RBs always carry the ball in their left hand, some, always with the right. Oddly, it's a minority that carry it in the hand it should be in. Vaughn is among who will carry the ball with the left or right, but never changes it. To me, he was at his best when they set him deep & brought him! Possesses the speed to press the front side of the play & the ability to cut up, inside. But that can said of a lot of RBs. How he handles unanticipated penetration is maybe average, nothing special. Vaughn's an emotional player, I saw him frustrated with his QB, on another occasion, appeared easily provoked. According to one scouting report, he's a trash talker. 

I disagree with your assessment of Ronald Jones jr. although you are in the majority across the fantasy community. What I think isn't appreciated is that he's actually 3 months younger than Vaughn. That's how premature an early-entry he was. When they drafted him he was 20 years old, he wasn't ready. He bought in to their conditioning program & last year came in much bigger & stronger. A stat I've been referencing a lot lately is yards before contact (YBC). Saquon Barkley was 34th in the league in (YBC), yet 7th in yards after contact, clearly, a great player! Ronald Jones was 36th in (YBC), I mean, that's being freakin' swarmed. He tied with Devin Singletary & two others for 13th in yards after contact! Could be wrong, but Jones performed a lot better than what's reckonized & Vaughn's actual "'path" to volume, injury. 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, markrc99 said:

 

Arians did identify Vaughn as having a 3-down skill set, but when asked whether he was looking for & found David Johnson, he quickly stated that Vaughn is not that player. Already noted & Arians said as much, something similar occurred here, that the player he actually wanted had just come off the board, meaning, Antonio Gibson. Because they needed to add depth & their next selection wasn't until what amounts to the 1st pick of the 6th RD, I think they reached for Vaughn. Why they opted for Vaughn over Zack Moss, I don't know about that. Reviewing Vaugnh's tape I didn't see anything as a receiver that would represent a difference-maker in his quest to unseat Jones jr. In fact, while I didn't find all the tape I would've wanted, I see a better ball-carrier than receiver. He has a 2nd gear, but it's as it's he needs to see his run track & it has to be a straight line. Once he is up to speed, he's a sprinter, there's no change of direction. 

Vaughn has some tools in his box, makes good use of his lateral wiggle & vision. That's likely what they like & where he's limited, perhaps they can do something about? One area I'm certain about, while he's low to the ground, he takes a lot of hits to the chest. As others have already noted, he lacks that quick-twitch suddenness in the backfield. Many of his longer runs, well blocked. Kept getting fed the ball even though they were down by multiple scores. Ball skills are good, I didn't see him extend away from the body to pull in a pass, but he catches with his hands, which is a good 80% of it. 

Some RBs always carry the ball in their left hand, some, always with the right. Oddly, it's a minority that carry it in the hand it should be in. Vaughn is among who will carry the ball with the left or right, but never changes it. To me, he was at his best when they set him deep & brought him! Possesses the speed to press the front side of the play & the ability to cut up, inside. But that can said of a lot of RBs. How he handles unanticipated penetration is maybe average, nothing special. Vaughn's an emotional player, I saw him frustrated with his QB, on another occasion, appeared easily provoked. According to one scouting report, he's a trash talker. 

I disagree with your assessment of Ronald Jones jr. although you are in the majority across the fantasy community. What I think isn't appreciated is that he's actually 3 months younger than Vaughn. That's how premature an early-entry he was. When they drafted him he was 20 years old, he wasn't ready. He bought in to their conditioning program & last year came in much bigger & stronger. A stat I've been referencing a lot lately is yards before contact (YBC). Saquon Barkley was 34th in the league in (YBC), yet 7th in yards after contact, clearly, a great player! Ronald Jones was 36th in (YBC), I mean, that's being freakin' swarmed. He tied with Devin Singletary & two others for 13th in yards after contact! Could be wrong, but Jones performed a lot better than what's reckonized & Vaughn's actual "'path" to volume, injury. 

 

 

 


👏 👏 

fantastic breakdown Mark.    Thanks for adding context to 2 players I thought I had a good grasp of.  Master level sir. 

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Interesting question raised about why TB would pass on Moss - possible reasons include: age, durability concerns, poor Combine, limited reps in pass-pro, and Vaughn did his work versus SEC rather than Pac-12 opponents - in fact, he finished among the 15 most efficient rushers in SEC history (despite running behind literally the worst run-blocking line in the FBS).

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Rojo also had tons of big runs called back last season due to penalties. I feel like he is getting to the point where people just like to crap on him because of his rookie season and not look at the massive improvement made. Dude was very solid last season.

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3 hours ago, markrc99 said:

 

Arians did identify Vaughn as having a 3-down skill set, but when asked whether he was looking for & found David Johnson, he quickly stated that Vaughn is not that player. Already noted & Arians said as much, something similar occurred here, that the player he actually wanted had just come off the board, meaning, Antonio Gibson. Because they needed to add depth & their next selection wasn't until what amounts to the 1st pick of the 6th RD, I think they reached for Vaughn. Why they opted for Vaughn over Zack Moss, I don't know about that. Reviewing Vaughn's tape I didn't see anything as a receiver that would represent a difference-maker in his quest to unseat Jones jr. In fact, while I didn't find all the tape I would've wanted, I see a better ball-carrier than receiver. He has a 2nd gear, but it's as it's he needs to see his run track & it has to be a straight line. Once he is up to speed, he's a sprinter, there's no change of direction. 

Vaughn has some tools in his box, makes good use of his lateral wiggle & vision. That's likely what they like & where he's limited, perhaps they can do something about? One area I'm certain about, while he's low to the ground, he takes a lot of hits to the chest. As others have already noted, he lacks that quick-twitch suddenness in the backfield. Many of his longer runs, well blocked. Kept getting fed the ball even though they were down by multiple scores. Ball skills are good, I didn't see him extend away from the body to pull in a pass, but he catches with his hands, which is a good 80% of it. 

Some RBs always carry the ball in their left hand, some, always with the right. Oddly, it's a minority that carry it in the hand it should be in. Vaughn is among who will carry the ball with the left or right, but never changes it. To me, he was at his best when they set him deep & brought him! Possesses the speed to press the front side of the play & the ability to cut up, inside. But that can said of a lot of RBs. How he handles unanticipated penetration is maybe average, nothing special. Vaughn's an emotional player, I saw him frustrated with his QB, on another occasion, appeared easily provoked. According to one scouting report, he's a trash talker. 

I disagree with your assessment of Ronald Jones jr. although you are in the majority across the fantasy community. What I think isn't appreciated is that he's actually 3 months younger than Vaughn. That's how premature an early-entry he was. When they drafted him he was 20 years old, he wasn't ready. He bought in to their conditioning program & last year came in much bigger & stronger. A stat I've been referencing a lot lately is yards before contact (YBC). Saquon Barkley was 34th in the league in (YBC), yet 7th in yards after contact, clearly, a great player! Ronald Jones was 36th in (YBC), I mean, that's being freakin' swarmed. He tied with Devin Singletary & two others for 13th in yards after contact! Could be wrong, but Jones performed a lot better than what's reckonized & Vaughn's actual "'path" to volume, injury. 

 

 

 

 

Really well thought out response. For me, him saying that Vaughn isn't David Johnson is pretty irrelevant here. David Johnson had a historic NFL season under Arians and was a far better athlete than Vaughn, I haven't heard any Vaughn supporters claim that he will be DJ. As for your reference to Arians' comment, I can't find anything about him saying that guy that they wanted had just come off the board (and keep in mind in the draft he got DJ he actually wanted Ameer Abdullah). I agree that Antonio Gibson is much more comparable to DJ but the difference with Gibson is that he has very little experience playing the running back position--he is a raw prospect and will almost certainly take a longer time to transition to the position at the NFL level than Vaughn. Arians exact quote you were referring to was: "I think Ke'shawn is a guy that can play every down. I don't consider him a David Johnson." This was after being directly asked if he viewed Vaughn as a David Johnson. To me the most important thing here is that he identifies Vaughn as an every down back. Who cares that he doesn't think that Vaughn is David Johnson, not many backs are. The more important quotes to me are the following. Arians at the NFL combine:

"You can see them all run; I want to see them catch," said Arians of the upcoming running back workout. "In college football they don't do a lot of pass-blocking, so that's always a big step for them. Can they be a receiver? That separates guys from having to come off the field. I had Christian Okoye who led the league but he never played on third down. Edgerrin James never came off the field. Marshall Faulk never came off the field. For me, I'm looking for that type of guy."

It is important to put the Vaughn/David Johnson quote in the context of this NFL combine quote from Arians. He specifically stated at the combine that he's looking for a back that can play every down. Then he draft Ke'Shawn Vaughn and said he views him as a back that can play on every down. Bucs director of player personnel John Spytek had this to about Vaughn as a pass catcher after the draft:

"He's a guy who can certainly help us in that realm," said Spytek. "As he continues to grow as a player he'll get more opportunities and he's got the ability to do a lot of things that we want a running back to do in the passing game. So it made a lot of sense from that standpoint. He's a good runner and a good receiver out of the backfield. He's got the ability to detach and run some of the routes that Coach Arians likes to do."

Clearly Vaughn is a guy that they believe can play a significant role in the passing game. Another thing to keep in mind is that Vaughn WAS a plus pass catcher with the opportunity

he was given in college--he had 14% of Vanderbilt's receptions, second most for RB's in division I behind only Eno Benjamin's 20%. You mention what RoJo did behind a porous o-line, the good news for Vaughn is that his production came behind the worst offensive line of any of the backs drafted in the top 3 rounds. If you watch his tape you will see the o-line blown off the ball play after play and Vaughn was still able to put up excellent production against the best competition in college football. This says a lot about his talent. It's silly to say that the only path to volume for Vaughn is injury to RoJo. You are pretending to put yourself in the minds of the coaches and saying that there is no way that Vaughn's play on the field could lead to more volume--that is a foolish take and one that loses people fantasy leagues. Peyton Barber essentially split backfield touches with RoJo last season. You mean to tell me that Vaughn, a more talented player than Barber, doesn't pose a significant threat to do the same and possibly more?

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22 minutes ago, killa3312 said:

Rojo also had tons of big runs called back last season due to penalties. I feel like he is getting to the point where people just like to crap on him because of his rookie season and not look at the massive improvement made. Dude was very solid last season.

Good point.  Another metric many might be overlooking is how proficient he was at breaking tackles: he broke 34 last season - tied with Ekeler, LF and Bell, and only two fewer than Singletary and AP.  That was good for a 19.8 BT% on par with the likes of Saquon, Aaron Jones, Ingram and Mostert.  And he’ll only be 23 by the time the season starts, so he definitely still has time to continue refining his craft.

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6 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

Arians exact quote you were referring to was: "I think Ke'shawn is a guy that can play every down. I don't consider him a David Johnson." This was after being directly asked if he viewed Vaughn as a David Johnson. To me the most important thing here is that he identifies Vaughn as an every down back. Who cares that he doesn't think that Vaughn is David Johnson, not many backs are.

Excellent post - it’s clear that you’re high on Vaughn - as am I - and there is good reason to be high on him.  I don’t expect him to want for touch volume this season, and so long as you don’t draft him with the expectation that he will ascend to an every-down role as early as this season, you should be happy with that pick.

Re: the DJ-comp point, the ironic thing is that Arians did compare another new arrival to Tampa’s RB room to “a much smaller but faster” DJ - seventh-rounder Raymond Calais.

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

Excellent post - it’s clear that you’re high on Vaughn - as am I - and there is good reason to be high on him.  I don’t expect him to want for touch volume this season, and so long as you don’t draft him with the expectation that he will ascend to an every-down role as early as this season, you should be happy with that pick.

Re: the DJ-comp point, the ironic thing is that Arians did compare another new arrival to Tampa’s RB room to “a much smaller but faster” DJ - seventh-rounder Raymond Calais.

 

Lol exactly. I think that says all we need to know about the meaningfulness of him comparing players to David Johnson. Great credit to the kid they drafted in the 7th round but 7th rounders rarely make an impact in the league. That kid is a long shot to make the roster let alone turn into David Johnson. It also shows that Arians is speaking more to style of play than the relevance of what he actually thinks about the player.

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3 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

 

Lol exactly. I think that says all we need to know about the meaningfulness of him comparing players to David Johnson. Great credit to the kid they drafted in the 7th round but 7th rounders rarely make an impact in the league. That kid is a long shot to make the roster let alone turn into David Johnson. It also shows that Arians is speaking more to style of play than the relevance of what he actually thinks about the player.

I don’t doubt he’ll make the roster - mainly because of his versatility - you can split him out wide, flank him with another RB in the backfield, or use him on returns.  Arians seems genuinely excited by the challenge of finding ways to deploy him.  But yes, I agree the DJ comp here speaks more to Calais’s versatility than to an expectation that he will ever match DJ’s production in his prime.

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4 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I don’t doubt he’ll make the roster - mainly because of his versatility - you can split him out wide, flank him with another RB in the backfield, or use him on returns.  Arians seems genuinely excited by the challenge of finding ways to deploy him.  But yes, I agree the DJ comp here speaks more to Calais’s versatility than to an expectation that he will ever match DJ’s production in his prime.

 

Yea I agree that he will most likely make the roster but his only real chance to make an impact anytime soon will be on special teams. Lance Zeurlines take on him:

Change-of-pace back with very good burst but below average size that could limit his NFL suitors. Calais is fairly talented (and courageous) as an inside/outside zone runner, but as a pro, he will likely be considered a gadget back who makes his living in open space. His play speed is what gives him a chance, but he needs to run with better patience to improve his control and elusiveness in the open field. He's not much of a third-down option, but his history as a punt-team gunner works in his favor.

This isn't the kind of player that poses any threat to RoJo or Vaughn.

Bucs selected Louisiana RB Raymond Calais with the No. 245 overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft. 

Calais (5'8/188) is the second running back the Bucs have added to their thin backfield this weekend. A pure COP back, Calais will need to be sprung into space to have success at the NFL level. He has the requisite speed (4.42) to chew up yards once in the open field. Lightly used in the passing game in college, Calais will have to improve in that area to have any real chance at making it as a 5-foot-8, 188 pound running back. 

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4 hours ago, markrc99 said:

 

Arians did identify Vaughn as having a 3-down skill set, but when asked whether he was looking for & found David Johnson, he quickly stated that Vaughn is not that player. Already noted & Arians said as much, something similar occurred here, that the player he actually wanted had just come off the board, meaning, Antonio Gibson. Because they needed to add depth & their next selection wasn't until what amounts to the 1st pick of the 6th RD, I think they reached for Vaughn. Why they opted for Vaughn over Zack Moss, I don't know about that. Reviewing Vaughn's tape I didn't see anything as a receiver that would represent a difference-maker in his quest to unseat Jones jr. In fact, while I didn't find all the tape I would've wanted, I see a better ball-carrier than receiver. He has a 2nd gear, but it's as it's he needs to see his run track & it has to be a straight line. Once he is up to speed, he's a sprinter, there's no change of direction. 

Vaughn has some tools in his box, makes good use of his lateral wiggle & vision. That's likely what they like & where he's limited, perhaps they can do something about? One area I'm certain about, while he's low to the ground, he takes a lot of hits to the chest. As others have already noted, he lacks that quick-twitch suddenness in the backfield. Many of his longer runs, well blocked. Kept getting fed the ball even though they were down by multiple scores. Ball skills are good, I didn't see him extend away from the body to pull in a pass, but he catches with his hands, which is a good 80% of it. 

Some RBs always carry the ball in their left hand, some, always with the right. Oddly, it's a minority that carry it in the hand it should be in. Vaughn is among who will carry the ball with the left or right, but never changes it. To me, he was at his best when they set him deep & brought him! Possesses the speed to press the front side of the play & the ability to cut up, inside. But that can said of a lot of RBs. How he handles unanticipated penetration is maybe average, nothing special. Vaughn's an emotional player, I saw him frustrated with his QB, on another occasion, appeared easily provoked. According to one scouting report, he's a trash talker. 

I disagree with your assessment of Ronald Jones jr. although you are in the majority across the fantasy community. What I think isn't appreciated is that he's actually 3 months younger than Vaughn. That's how premature an early-entry he was. When they drafted him he was 20 years old, he wasn't ready. He bought in to their conditioning program & last year came in much bigger & stronger. A stat I've been referencing a lot lately is yards before contact (YBC). Saquon Barkley was 34th in the league in (YBC), yet 7th in yards after contact, clearly, a great player! Ronald Jones was 36th in (YBC), I mean, that's being freakin' swarmed. He tied with Devin Singletary & two others for 13th in yards after contact! Could be wrong, but Jones performed a lot better than what's reckonized & Vaughn's actual "'path" to volume, injury. 

 

 

 

This is one of the more impressive posts I’ve seen on this forum over the years.

Made me very interested in RJ this year, well done. 

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