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1 minute ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

How's his track record drafting TEs?

I feel like it isn’t all that good outside of Gronk and Dead Murderer.

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When Jonnu sees Firsker ball out.

Love the talent of Jonnu Smith - unsure of the opportunity. Dude is a freak athlete - 93rd percentile SPARQ score, 100th percentile breakout age, 92nd percentile college dominator rating.  So the

I'm here to say that I started this forum and I hope you all listened. Congrats if you did.

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4 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I feel like it isn’t all that good outside of Gronk and Dead Murderer.

 

Are you kidding? Ben Watson, Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez is a ridiculous hit rate at the TE position. Go look at how many TE's of that caliber other franchises have hit on in that span.

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10 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

 

Are you kidding? Ben Watson, Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez is a ridiculous hit rate at the TE position. Go look at how many TE's of that caliber other franchises have hit on in that span.

No.  If you would like to count Jacob Hollister, go for it.  Hitting on three or even four TEs over the course of a 20-year career seems about average. 

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1 hour ago, BMcP said:

No.  If you would like to count Jacob Hollister, go for it.  Hitting on three or even four TEs over the course of a 20-year career seems about average. 

 

Lol

 

1st ballot hall of famer in there, how many more than that did he even need? They aren't all gonna be hall of famers, unfortunately.

 

Still an amazing eye for talent in general, TE being where he has hit big.

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16 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Lol

 

1st ballot hall of famer in there, how many more than that did he even need? They aren't all gonna be hall of famers, unfortunately.

 

Still an amazing eye for talent in general, TE being where he has hit big.

I won’t further derail this thread, but I don’t think drafting a HOF at some point renders you some amazing evaluator unto itself.  
 

PM me if you need reminders.

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14 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I won’t further derail this thread, but I don’t think drafting a HOF at some point renders you some amazing evaluator unto itself.  
 

PM me if you need reminders.

 

Well, threads not derailed to me. Bill B made a direct quote about Jonnu and we are discussing Bill B's TE evaluations.

 

I certainly think that Bill B has seen and drafted enough talent at TE to know what he is talking about so his opinion on Jonnu Smith is significant if he is calling him one of the best TEs with the ball in his hands that he has seen. High praise from a guy who drafted and coached possibly the greatest TE of all time and won multiple super bowls.

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1 hour ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Well, threads not derailed to me. Bill B made a direct quote about Jonnu and we are discussing Bill B's TE evaluations.

 

I certainly think that Bill B has seen and drafted enough talent at TE to know what he is talking about so his opinion on Jonnu Smith is significant if he is calling him one of the best TEs with the ball in his hands that he has seen. High praise from a guy who drafted and coached possibly the greatest TE of all time and won multiple super bowls.

Ok.  I just wonder whether anyone, given about two decades, would be able to hit on a TE with perfect measurables.  Has he drafted enough talent at QB to know what he’s talking about there as well?

Also, BB is fairly well known for talking the living heck out of any opposing players.  It’s a tired and familiar shtick.  Read into that well-established trend whatever you will.

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10 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Ok.  I just wonder whether anyone, given about two decades, would be able to hit on a TE with perfect measurables.  Has he drafted enough talent at QB to know what he’s talking about there as well?

Also, BB is fairly well known for talking the living heck out of any opposing players.  It’s a tired and familiar shtick.  Read into that well-established trend whatever you will.

 

Bill B is a hard coach for sure.

 

QBs he drafted? The big ones that stick out are Brady, garropolo, brissett, not bad. I mean, he is the best for a reason and he seemed to be impressed with the game of Jonnu Smith, that's something as a Jonnu dynasty owner that I like to hear.

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57 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Also, BB is fairly well known for talking the living heck out of any opposing players.

Some random quotes:

Obviously, [QB Colt] McCoy is an outstanding player with a great deal of experience and so is [QB] Case [Keenum], and those guys have played a lot of good football and they have a very talented group of skill players with them. 

Prior to playing the 0-4 Browns: "Defensively they're very sound, aggressive. They capitalize on a lot of offensive mistakes with their effort and aggressiveness. We've got to do a great job of taking care of the ball and staying out of long yardage. They're a very good third-down team, longer yardage situations, so those are hard to convert and very aggressive in the secondary. They've got good experience back there with [Joe] Haden, [Tramon] Williams, [Jamar] Taylor, [Jordan] Poyer, guys like that, guys that have been around for a while that are smart, instinctive players. We've got to do a good job there."

And coaches. He even talked up Adam Gase.

“Adam’s one of, as I I’ve talked about, I think one of the best game planners in the game and does an excellent job of attacking defenses and just making it tough to handle what they do offensively, with their different personnel groups and plays and his play calling,” Belichick said before practice on Thursday.

So him praising Jonnu means absolutely nothing. Shall we go back to our scheduled program?

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15 minutes ago, Boudewijn said:

Some random quotes:

Obviously, [QB Colt] McCoy is an outstanding player with a great deal of experience and so is [QB] Case [Keenum], and those guys have played a lot of good football and they have a very talented group of skill players with them. 

Prior to playing the 0-4 Browns: "Defensively they're very sound, aggressive. They capitalize on a lot of offensive mistakes with their effort and aggressiveness. We've got to do a great job of taking care of the ball and staying out of long yardage. They're a very good third-down team, longer yardage situations, so those are hard to convert and very aggressive in the secondary. They've got good experience back there with [Joe] Haden, [Tramon] Williams, [Jamar] Taylor, [Jordan] Poyer, guys like that, guys that have been around for a while that are smart, instinctive players. We've got to do a good job there."

And coaches. He even talked up Adam Gase.

“Adam’s one of, as I I’ve talked about, I think one of the best game planners in the game and does an excellent job of attacking defenses and just making it tough to handle what they do offensively, with their different personnel groups and plays and his play calling,” Belichick said before practice on Thursday.

So him praising Jonnu means absolutely nothing. Shall we go back to our scheduled program?

Thank you very much - let’s just embrace the derail.  Would anyone like to make any comments about William Belichick’s honesty or sense of fair play?  Because now - in the Jonnu Smith thread - appears to be the right time.

Can’t wait to see what the league eventually decides to do to punish him for this Bengals filming cheating episode.

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1 hour ago, BMcP said:

Ok.  I just wonder whether anyone, given about two decades, would be able to hit on a TE with perfect measurables.  Has he drafted enough talent at QB to know what he’s talking about there as well?

Also, BB is fairly well known for talking the living heck out of any opposing players.  It’s a tired and familiar shtick.  Read into that well-established trend whatever you will.

 

I'm curious, what constitutes being able to evaluate talent to you? I literally just named the tight ends during his 2 decade long tenure, what else would you want?

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23 minutes ago, Boudewijn said:

Some random quotes:

Obviously, [QB Colt] McCoy is an outstanding player with a great deal of experience and so is [QB] Case [Keenum], and those guys have played a lot of good football and they have a very talented group of skill players with them. 

Prior to playing the 0-4 Browns: "Defensively they're very sound, aggressive. They capitalize on a lot of offensive mistakes with their effort and aggressiveness. We've got to do a great job of taking care of the ball and staying out of long yardage. They're a very good third-down team, longer yardage situations, so those are hard to convert and very aggressive in the secondary. They've got good experience back there with [Joe] Haden, [Tramon] Williams, [Jamar] Taylor, [Jordan] Poyer, guys like that, guys that have been around for a while that are smart, instinctive players. We've got to do a good job there."

And coaches. He even talked up Adam Gase.

“Adam’s one of, as I I’ve talked about, I think one of the best game planners in the game and does an excellent job of attacking defenses and just making it tough to handle what they do offensively, with their different personnel groups and plays and his play calling,” Belichick said before practice on Thursday.

So him praising Jonnu means absolutely nothing. Shall we go back to our scheduled program?

 

So you're expecting a 100% hit rate on comments on players? Would you consider Bill Bellichicks comments on a player irrelevant? Do you think some of those comments were generic for a reason? Who's comments would you take seriously and why? Also, I think his praise of Jonnu was very relevant, it was not generic, he was specifically stating a skill he has that he views as elite, his YAC ability. 

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9 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

 

I'm curious, what constitutes being able to evaluate talent to you? I literally just named the tight ends during his 2 decade long tenure, what else would you want?

I am similarly curious about what you think?  I won’t overload you with questions or requests for people to research for you - just that one, thank you.

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2 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

So you're expecting a 100% hit rate on comments on players?

No, I try to judge what they are worth. Rappoport is not the same as Schechter is not the same as Belichick is not the same as Jeff Fischer.

3 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

Would you consider Bill Bellichicks comments on a player irrelevant?

Generally, especially in a pre-game press conference.

4 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

Do you anyone who's evaluations are always correct, besides yourself of course.

I am generally wrong, and even that is probably not entirely accurate.

4 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

Also, I think his praise of Jonnu was very relevant since he was specifically stating a skill he has that he views as elite, his YAC ability. 

Ok, fair enough. I'm certainly not saying BB is lying, I generally think what he praises is to some extent valid. But I do recognise his skill in saying something fairly meaningless but positive about pretty much anyone.

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2 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I am similarly curious about what you think?  I won’t overload you with questions or requests for people to research for you - just that one, thank you.

 

I think that Bill B is someone I pay attention to when he says that a player is elite in a specific skillset that is of great importance to being good at a position. And I think he is viewed as one of the best player evaluators in football regardless of not having a 100% hit rate. Does that answer your question. And I will gladly do research since I like to support my opinions with evidence.

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4 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

 

I think that Bill B is someone I pay attention to when he says that a player is elite in a specific skillset that is of great importance to being good at a position. And I think he is viewed as one of the best player evaluators in football regardless of not having a 100% hit rate. Does that answer your question. And I will gladly do research since I like to support my opinions with evidence.

Thank you for your response.  I assume you have evidence of his being an elite talent evaluator then?  (NB: His last few drafts will not be of much help, I’m afraid.)

P.S.  Colt McCoy, the former Browns D and Adam Gase were all terrible misses on his part.

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3 minutes ago, Boudewijn said:

No, I try to judge what they are worth. Rappoport is not the same as Schechter is not the same as Belichick is not the same as Jeff Fischer.

Generally, especially in a pre-game press conference.

I am generally wrong, and even that is probably not entirely accurate.

Ok, fair enough. I'm certainly not saying BB is lying, I generally think what he praises is to some extent valid. But I do recognise his skill in saying something fairly meaningless but positive about pretty much anyone.

 

I agree with your statement about everyone's comments not being treated equally--and Bill B is a greater football mind than 99% of twitter fantasy footballers and NFL reporters, so I take him very seriously when I can tell he is not just going through the motions. It is pretty easy to decipher generic praise from his specifically talking about a precise skillset. Not of your examples of his comments about players were equivalent to him saying SPECIFICALLY that Jonnu is "probably the best in the league after the catch".

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5 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Thank you for your response.  I assume you have evidence of his being an elite talent evaluator then?  (NB: His last few drafts will not be of much help, I’m afraid.)

 

Evidence: Tied for most super bowls all time.

You seriously think because he has had bad drafts and has been poor at drafting receivers he's not considered one of the best talent evaluators in the league? Wonder how he won all those Super Bowls. I'm sure you'll make the Tom Brady case. This is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever had on this forum.

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6 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

 

Evidence: Tied for most super bowls all time.

You seriously think because he has had bad drafts and has been poor at drafting receivers he's not considered one of the best talent evaluators in the league? Wonder how he won all those Super Bowls. I'm sure you'll make the Tom Brady case. This is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever had on this forum.

I’ll save you the trouble of continuing it.  Super Bowl victories is your “evidence”?  Gotcha.

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11 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I’ll save you the trouble of continuing it.  Super Bowl victories is your “evidence”?  Gotcha.

 

Provide me with a better data point for a GM/Coach and I will be all ears 😀

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19 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

 

Provide me with a better data point for a GM/Coach and I will be all ears 😀

More demands - why am I not surprised....

If you believe that SB victories are the best way of judging talent evaluation, I really have nothing more to provide.

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14 minutes ago, BMcP said:

More demands - why am I not surprised....

If you believe that SB victories are the best way of judging talent evaluation, I really have nothing more to provide.

 

I'm sorry, I was insensitive, CAN you provide me with a better data point? Yes, I think when you are a GM/coach and win the most super bowls in the history of your sport being an elite evaluator of the players in said sport is implicit to the process. How can you have nothing more to prove when you haven't proven anything at all? 

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20 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

 

How can you have nothing more to prove when you haven't proven anything? 

WR hits: Literally one (Edelman) during the last fifth of a century.

TE hits: 3 in twenty years.  Took Hernandez despite (insert understatement of the century) “character concerns.”  Some dude named Gronk that at least one team (Raiders) graded as the best player in the entire draft class.  And Watson.

Belichick is a defensive genius and rightfully deserves that term - as far as receiving options go...not so much.

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