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Hayden Hurst 2020 Outlook


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29 minutes ago, dudewithabadcat said:

 

Disagree. Perhaps pointing out two teams that had HoF QB-TE combos was a bit absurd but the reality is that there has been a lot of great success when teams actually know how to use the TE position.  Witten - not that amazing physically but always a great play and featured.  Graham - now we are getting into more gifted TEs...he was featured. Greg Olsen...always featured.  Dallas Clark.....always featured.  Ben ******** Coates...featured.  Heath Miller....featured...

As I said, the Falcons absolutely suck at featuring the TE.  Hurst's ceiling is 14 points when he gets a TD and his average floor is like 6.  So, he will get you some points but he won't break it open for you.  It's a playcalling thing...it's a Matt Ryan thing....there is something up with this offense and coaching staff that refuse to feature a TE.  


Organizations don’t dictate TE usage... talent level at the position, coaches and QBs do.  
 

The Falcons have had just as much success when they have had a viable option at the position as any organization outside of the very few elite ones, all who have had HOF-level talent at TE.

 

Even Hurst has been above average in the league this year. Hooper was a stud last year.

 

Your argument doesn’t hold any water.

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you guys are making a grave mistake. BIG BRATWURST HURST BOUT TO POP OFF THIS WEEK 2 CATCHES 15 YARDS 0 TDS BOOK IT.

Julio in = Hayden Hurst. Julio out = Hayden Hurts.

It says something when the Ravens trade a backup tight end for a 2nd round pick and there's mixed reactions from the fans.  This guy is talented and people remember him outrunning everyone for a long

3 hours ago, SkinsChargersFan said:


Organizations don’t dictate TE usage... talent level at the position, coaches and QBs do.  
 

The Falcons have had just as much success when they have had a viable option at the position as any organization outside of the very few elite ones, all who have had HOF-level talent at TE.

 

Even Hurst has been above average in the league this year. Hooper was a stud last year.

 

Your argument doesn’t hold any water.

 

Dude....coaches are the organization.  That is what I'm saying.  Argument holds a lot of water.  Hooper had two to three **** years before last year.  Look at him this year.  The reason Hooper had a good season last year was that they finally USED Hooper as a featured pass catcher.  Hooper vs. Hurst when it comes to physical skills or football prowess is a mute point, probably about even.  

Edited by dudewithabadcat
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1 hour ago, dudewithabadcat said:

 

Dude....coaches are the organization.  That is what I'm saying.  Argument holds a lot of water.  Hooper had two to three **** years before last year.  Look at him this year.  The reason Hooper had a good season last year was that they finally USED Hooper as a featured pass catcher.  Hooper vs. Hurst when it comes to physical skills or football prowess is a mute point, probably about even.  


Coaches change, and aren’t the “organization”... in fact the head coach who started the season isn’t even there anymore.

 

Wanna talk about Offensive Coordinators?  Dirk Koetter is there right now, in his second stint with the team.

 

Guess who was the TE during Koetter’s first stint?
 

Tony Gonzalez.  He knows how to use the TE position just fine.

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21 hours ago, SkinsChargersFan said:


Coaches change, and aren’t the “organization”... in fact the head coach who started the season isn’t even there anymore.

 

Wanna talk about Offensive Coordinators?  Dirk Koetter is there right now, in his second stint with the team.

 

Guess who was the TE during Koetter’s first stint?
 

Tony Gonzalez.  He knows how to use the TE position just fine.


Coaches aren’t the organization?  Tell that to BB. Tell that to O’Brien. You are really stretching here by changing definitions. 
 

You bored with this conversation yet?

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21 hours ago, SkinsChargersFan said:


Coaches change, and aren’t the “organization”... in fact the head coach who started the season isn’t even there anymore.

 

Wanna talk about Offensive Coordinators?  Dirk Koetter is there right now, in his second stint with the team.

 

Guess who was the TE during Koetter’s first stint?
 

Tony Gonzalez.  He knows how to use the TE position just fine.

 

Coaches are the CEO of the football team. The owner is chairman of the board, and the GM is on the board of directors. 

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35 minutes ago, dudewithabadcat said:


Coaches aren’t the organization?  Tell that to BB. Tell that to O’Brien. You are really stretching here by changing definitions. 
 

You bored with this conversation yet?


What’s your point? As I’ve explained to you multiple times, the Atlanta “organization”, coaches, offensive coordinator, etc. (however far down the food chain you want to extend it) know how to use TEs.  Dirk Koetter, who calls the plays, is well-known for using tight ends.  They’ve had as much success as any team in the league except for the very few who have elite TEs.

 

Bottom Line: Your point that the Falcons “organization” doesn’t know how to use TEs makes ZERO sense.


1)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tampabay.com/tight-ends-have-thrived-in-dirk-koetter-offenses/2321946/%3foutputType=amp

2)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thefalcoholic.com/platform/amp/2020/6/14/21290429/how-tight-ends-fare-in-a-dirk-koetter-led-falcons-offense

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, SkinsChargersFan said:


What’s your point? As I’ve explained to you multiple times, the Atlanta “organization”, coaches, offensive coordinator, etc. (however far down the food chain you want to extend it) know how to use TEs.  Dirk Koetter, who calls the plays, is well-known for using tight ends.  They’ve had as much success as any team in the league except for the very few who have elite TEs.

 

Bottom Line: Your point that the Falcons “organization” doesn’t know how to use TEs makes ZERO sense.


1)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tampabay.com/tight-ends-have-thrived-in-dirk-koetter-offenses/2321946/%3foutputType=amp

2)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thefalcoholic.com/platform/amp/2020/6/14/21290429/how-tight-ends-fare-in-a-dirk-koetter-led-falcons-offense

 

 

 


“Use” versus “feature”. I have been using the term “feature”. I feel like Fant and Hurst are worth featuring but they aren’t cause the org can’t do it. Koetter is a play stealer / copier. Guy is a joke. Any success he has had is cause someone blazed the trail for him. 

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27 minutes ago, dudewithabadcat said:


“Use” versus “feature”. I have been using the term “feature”. I feel like Fant and Hurst are worth featuring but they aren’t cause the org can’t do it. Koetter is a play stealer / copier. Guy is a joke. Any success he has had is cause someone blazed the trail for him. 


Haha, okay.  


Agreed, I have no idea why they don’t “feature” Hayden Hurst when they have Julio Jones and Calvin Ridley at WR. 😂

 

And who, might I ask, did Koetter steal his plays from?

 

 

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23 hours ago, SkinsChargersFan said:


Haha, okay.  


Agreed, I have no idea why they don’t “feature” Hayden Hurst when they have Julio Jones and Calvin Ridley at WR. 😂

 

And who, might I ask, did Koetter steal his plays from?

 

 

 

amazing...look up first principles thinking.  not Koetter but, hell, that is not just Koetter, 95% of the leagues coaches suffer from a lack of understanding the game versus copying plays.  that is why you keep seeing the same coaches always excelling while others go around the coaching carousel.  or, that is why you see assistant after assistant from the BB coaching tree flop.  

strange that other teams can feature a TE despite all the talent on their team....ATL is a dog's breakfast. 

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40 minutes ago, dudewithabadcat said:

 

amazing...look up first principles thinking.  not Koetter but, hell, that is not just Koetter, 95% of the leagues coaches suffer from a lack of understanding the game versus copying plays.  that is why you keep seeing the same coaches always excelling while others go around the coaching carousel.  or, that is why you see assistant after assistant from the BB coaching tree flop.  

strange that other teams can feature a TE despite all the talent on their team....ATL is a dog's breakfast. 

Maybe I'm not understanding your definition of a 'feature' TE, but I can only think of 3 teams that do this (SF, LV, and KC), and only one has WR talent equivalent to ATL.

I think this is more related the abilities of the player, and less about the abilities of the coaching staff.  Hurst isn't a special athlete that deserves to be featured, he is an average TE on a team with 2 good wr options, which severely limits his upside.  Complaining that the coaching staff is to blame is odd, considering the guy wasn't even the starter in Baltimore.

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48 minutes ago, Loadedbrewer said:

Maybe I'm not understanding your definition of a 'feature' TE, but I can only think of 3 teams that do this (SF, LV, and KC), and only one has WR talent equivalent to ATL.

I think this is more related the abilities of the player, and less about the abilities of the coaching staff.  Hurst isn't a special athlete that deserves to be featured, he is an average TE on a team with 2 good wr options, which severely limits his upside.  Complaining that the coaching staff is to blame is odd, considering the guy wasn't even the starter in Baltimore.

 

1. Not disagreeing that he is not a world class talent.  Neither have been a lot of great TEs that took on more of a role in their offense, in the red zone, or in critical times of a game.

2. Here is where the rub might be - I think that Hurst is talented enough in an offense that should be creating a **** ton of space where he could be used way more effectively....

3. Hence....my strange stance.  

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2 hours ago, dudewithabadcat said:

 

1. Not disagreeing that he is not a world class talent.  Neither have been a lot of great TEs that took on more of a role in their offense, in the red zone, or in critical times of a game.

2. Here is where the rub might be - I think that Hurst is talented enough in an offense that should be creating a **** ton of space where he could be used way more effectively....

3. Hence....my strange stance.  

#2 is where we disagree, I see him as a JAG on a team with 2 much better options.  There is only one ball and the majority of the meaningful targets are going to go to Jones and Ridley.  
 

this is a common situation, like Seattle, Pitt, Carolina, Rams, chargers, and Houston..... 

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16 hours ago, Loadedbrewer said:

#2 is where we disagree, I see him as a JAG on a team with 2 much better options.  There is only one ball and the majority of the meaningful targets are going to go to Jones and Ridley.  
 

this is a common situation, like Seattle, Pitt, Carolina, Rams, chargers, and Houston..... 

 

Yup.  That is where we differ.  I also think he is a JAG but he is on the upper echelons of JAGness which puts him in the territory of an elite talent TE not being used as an elite TE....as in Noah Fant.  They are basically the same player when it comes to fantasy relevance at this point in time.  With that being said, I don't think it is out of the question to have a JAG be a significant fantasy player.  Hell, even Denard Robinson had half a season which was remarkable.  Frank Gore is literally the definition of the overachieving JAG  Point is, high amount of talent or low amount of talent...this is a team game where if you run your route properly, wear sticky enough gloves/don't drop passes, make your blocking assignments, and have the QBs trust...you can be an elite TE and very relevant in fantasy football.  I never get that from the Falcon's org (only a glimmer last year).  Not sure if it is Matt Ryan or the coaching staff but they waste a lot of plays feeding WR3 and WR4s that are even more JAGgy when you relate them to other's in the WR position. 

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6 hours ago, TuckAndRolle said:

So, what do you guys think of him this week? A rematch against the Saints - was the last game against the Saints just a fluke or something to be very concerned about?


Keep in mind, he put up a 0 last game against the Saints and the main reason for that was because he was primarily used more so as a blocker all game. Hence why he didn't put up numbers...something to keep in mind.

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I've consistently stayed away from Hurst if Jones and Ridley are playing and that's served me very well. Way too many hungrier mouths to feed. Plus, the Saints may have the best pass rush in football right now and Hurst will be asked to block and try and save their statue QB all game. Not this week for me.

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Just now, MrPositive said:

I've consistently stayed away from Hurst if Jones and Ridley are playing and that's served me very well. Way too many hungrier mouths to feed. Plus, the Saints may have the best pass rush in football right now and Hurst will be asked to block and save their statue QB all game. Not this week for me.

The saints are down Davenport tmrw, but they still have an incredible pass rush. After some early season adjustments and bringing in Kwon Alexander they have been able to completely shutdown opposing TEs (including HH just 2 weeks ago).

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16 hours ago, ST. STEVEN said:

The saints are down Davenport tmrw, but they still have an incredible pass rush. After some early season adjustments and bringing in Kwon Alexander they have been able to completely shutdown opposing TEs (including HH just 2 weeks ago).

These are good analysis 

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Predictably this fool was once again not involved in the offense.  I think he's a straight drop even before putting in a waiver claim, at least on Yahoo where you can drop bench players who didn't start.  One of those "I'll drop you now, I don't care that I'll have an empty roster slot" kind of moves.

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