Saquon Barkley 2020 Outlook

[apap414 256]

22 hours ago, Proteus said:

I can’t remember a player who disappointed so thoroughly, then redeemed himself so completely, as a fantasy asset... 

 

...unless of course you didn’t survive part 1 of that...

 

It almost put me out of the playoff picture...then it won me my league 😆

[dmb3684 4,644]

Saquan is #1 on my board in any format.

[Proteus 3,794]

On 5/9/2020 at 9:27 PM, apap414 said:

 

It almost put me out of the playoff picture...then it won me my league 😆

Exactly this!!! It was such a nightmare at first.

Couldn't trade him either in between those poles because everyone was just trying to fleece the F outta you, right?

But in the end...he looked so so good ripping off those chunk yards and big plays.

 

Standing back from it now, I'm thinking we haven't seen his peak production at all whereas we might have with CMC, mainly because I think the Panthers just HAVE to cut back on touches for CMC. They HAVE to. But the Giants? On some level they have to feel like he was robbed of a chance to do his thing, and 2020 is his year to be FED and FED. It's a just a narrative hunch, but I can't shake it.

 

If I have 2 #1s, I'd probably go one CMC, one Saquon. But more and more I'm thinking maybe Saquon x 2.

[Gohawks 10,066]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:33 PM, dmb3684 said:

Saquan is #1 on my board in any format.

My justification for taking Barkley over CMC last season was he was so damn fun to watch. I had CMC ranked #1 almost the entire off season and still took Barkley because watching the dude run on my team was something else. Easily the most exciting player in the league in my opinon

I have CMC ranked first again. I'll probably take Barkley first again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice can't put the blame on you...

[ST. STEVEN 4,173]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:27 PM, apap414 said:

 

It almost put me out of the playoff picture...then it won me my league 😆

Yep, in one league I was able to pry him from his owner (tall task in a higher stakes 16 team dynasty!) and he came back and took my middling team all the way to a title.

[BMcP 8,280]

This is obviously not that important - but both backs are dealing with new coaches/schemes.  I’d expect Saquon to slightly improve and CMC to slightly regress - purely in terms of usage.

[ST. STEVEN 4,173]

6 hours ago, BMcP said:

This is obviously not that important - but both backs are dealing with new coaches/schemes.  I’d expect Saquon to slightly improve and CMC to slightly regress - purely in terms of usage.

It is a good point. We really don't know much (scheme philosophy wise) what Judge wants to do, we can assume some Pats concepts might come with him and we also don't know if it will be Jason Garrett in charge of everything on that side of the ball--yet. 

With CMC, we have an idea of what Rhule likes to do, and esp the O-coordinator, Joe Brady--he comes from the Sean Payton tree and excelled calling one of college footballs best offenses in history at LSU (used CEH a ton in slot and iso'd routes from RB spot against LBs often). Game script and scheme should favor plenty of passing game usage for CMC.

[dmb3684 4,644]

12 hours ago, BMcP said:

This is obviously not that important - but both backs are dealing with new coaches/schemes.  I’d expect Saquon to slightly improve and CMC to slightly regress - purely in terms of usage.

 

These are my thoughts as well. They are both awesome.

[Fort4242 740]

It's been a tale of two stories with Jason Garrett while he was in Dallas.  Each year he was OC or HC, before they drafted Zeke, the Cowboys passing game was head and shoulders above the run game.  Passing Yards and Attempts were typically towards the top of the league, while rushing finished between the middle and the bottom.  Once Dallas drafted Zeke, the script flipped and their running game was finishing near the top, while the passing game numbers were closer to the middle/bottom.  Last year was the exception with new OC Kellen Moore, the offense was actually studly in both phases.

So do we see the old Jason Garrett who leaned heavily on the passing game or the "newer" Jason Garrett that leaned on his stud RB?

With a younger Daniel Jones at the helm and a stud in the backfield, I would think Garrett would continue his recent tendencies he employed in Dallas, and lean more on the running game.  His early Dallas teams were lead by Tony Romo and Dez Bryant, and didn't have a Zeke/Barkley in the backfield.  Demarco Murray might have been the closest thing, but I'm sure everyone is well aware of his injury history.  Once Dallas was starting a young Dak Prescott with Zeke behind him, is when you saw a notable shift in the offensive philosophy.  I think this Giants team closer resembles that - a young QB with a stud RB behind him.  And while Garrett got a lot of heat as HC, the numbers show he was a guy who adjusted his philosophy to fit around his players.  

Now the biggest difference is the offensive line - which the Giants can't hold a candle to Dallas.  But we've seen Barkley produce on his own and the Giants have taken steps the last few years to improve that line - Andrew Thomas and Matt Peart picks this year, Will Hernandez pick in 2018, signing guys like Cam Fleming, Nate Solder, and trading for Kevin Zeitler last year.  The offensive line might not be as bad as people remember from a few years ago.  According to PFF, they ended last season with the 17th ranked offensive line - not great but not a sieve by any means.  Most of the negative comments from them are regarding pass protection, which in turn might also lead to more emphasis on the run game.  Adding Thomas and Peart could help strengthen that unit and land them in the top half of the league, maybe even higher.  

Who would I rather take between Barkley or CMC at #1?  Honestly, flip a coin.  You could argue against CMC, citing that his OC who fed him non-stop is no longer in town.  Plus Carolina might have the best set of WRs since CMC got here, possibly leading to less targets in the passing game.  I honestly don't think you can go wrong either way.  Both RBs are studs.  Both RBs have new head coaches, and new offensive systems this season.  

Edited May 20, 2020 by Fort4242

[RMJ_12 1,737]

On 5/9/2020 at 7:17 PM, Sivaro said:

The Giants have a very hard schedule.

 

I am going to drop him down significantly.  Perhaps about number 5 overall.

So he’ll catch more passes... that’s a terrible logic on ranking players of his caliber

[Gohawks 10,066]

On 5/9/2020 at 5:17 PM, Sivaro said:

I am going to drop him down significantly.  Perhaps about number 5 overall.

This along with you advocating avoiding RBs for 5 rounds and drafting defenses in the 8th has me concerned. You ok buddy? 

[Sivaro 943]

40 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

This along with you advocating avoiding RBs for 5 rounds and drafting defenses in the 8th has me concerned. You ok buddy? 

 

 

All good

 

[Gohawks 10,066]

9 minutes ago, Sivaro said:

 

 

All good

 

By the way, CMC has a tougher schedule than Barkley.

He dropping down also?

[Sivaro 943]

14 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

By the way, CMC has a tougher schedule than Barkley.

He dropping down also?

 

 

NO, CMC is a solid Number 1.   He is far and away a better choice for the first pick than anyone else out there.  ( he is a also a receiver).

Barkley is a great pick, but , I think I would take M Thomas, Zeke, Cook and Hill before him.

[Gohawks 10,066]

30 minutes ago, Sivaro said:

 

 

NO, CMC is a solid Number 1.   He is far and away a better choice for the first pick than anyone else out there.  ( he is a also a receiver).

Barkley is a great pick, but , I think I would take M Thomas, Zeke, Cook and Hill before him.

Let me follow this logic train:

- Barkley has a tough schedule

- So you are going to drop him down significantly

- CMC has even a tougher schedule

- He is far and away the best choice for first overall

 

[Sivaro 943]

4 hours ago, Gohawks said:

Let me follow this logic train:

- Barkley has a tough schedule

- So you are going to drop him down significantly

- CMC has even a tougher schedule

- He is far and away the best choice for first overall

 

 

Of course he is a better option than Barkley.   So the answer is

 

 

[BMcP 8,280]

Some quality comedy in this thread.  😂

[Gohawks 10,066]

2 hours ago, Sivaro said:

 

Of course he is a better option than Barkley.   So the answer is

 

 

You didn’t answer my question though. You knock Barkley down significantly because of his tough schedule yet don’t do the same for CMC even though he has a tougher schedule.

[Fort4242 740]

Schedules DO NOT matter right now

[J.T. Marlin 971]

The Giants have sunk considerable resources into their Oline. Seems like they have solid depth there too. There’s definitely a reasonable chance that they climb into the elite tier this season. That, along with the very solid receiving crew (Tate/Slayton/Shepard/Engram) to keep defenses honest all bodes very well for Saquon. He’s my #1 overall player, could be a monster season coming.

[Boudewijn 4,456]

1 hour ago, J.T. Marlin said:

along with the very solid receiving crew (Tate/Slayton/Shepard/Engram)

I "liked" your comment becuase I agree that the better O-line should be a huge boost for Barkley and Jones, but calling that band of misfits "solid" maybe overstating it a bit:

- one TE who never played a full season, and started so far only 25 games in 3 seasons
- one 31yo vet (soon to be 32) who already got caught once for steroids
- one 27yo WR2 who never topped 1000 yd
- one 5th round receiver who had a pretty impressive rookie season.

So there's certainly possibilities there, but let's not pretend this is an all-star cast. They had 2500 yd last season between the 4 of them, but we all know Saquon was the NY Offense.

[PizzaBeerFF 757]

I just learned I have #2 pick over all. I’m going Saquan. 

[RunCMC 2,466]

36 minutes ago, PizzaBeerFF said:

I just learned I have #2 pick over all. I’m going Saquan. 

 

Please, do tell more

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Saquon 

[PizzaBeerFF 757]

On 5/20/2020 at 9:46 AM, Fort4242 said:

It's been a tale of two stories with Jason Garrett while he was in Dallas.  Each year he was OC or HC, before they drafted Zeke, the Cowboys passing game was head and shoulders above the run game.  Passing Yards and Attempts were typically towards the top of the league, while rushing finished between the middle and the bottom.  Once Dallas drafted Zeke, the script flipped and their running game was finishing near the top, while the passing game numbers were closer to the middle/bottom.  Last year was the exception with new OC Kellen Moore, the offense was actually studly in both phases.

So do we see the old Jason Garrett who leaned heavily on the passing game or the "newer" Jason Garrett that leaned on his stud RB?

With a younger Daniel Jones at the helm and a stud in the backfield, I would think Garrett would continue his recent tendencies he employed in Dallas, and lean more on the running game.  His early Dallas teams were lead by Tony Romo and Dez Bryant, and didn't have a Zeke/Barkley in the backfield.  Demarco Murray might have been the closest thing, but I'm sure everyone is well aware of his injury history.  Once Dallas was starting a young Dak Prescott with Zeke behind him, is when you saw a notable shift in the offensive philosophy.  I think this Giants team closer resembles that - a young QB with a stud RB behind him.  And while Garrett got a lot of heat as HC, the numbers show he was a guy who adjusted his philosophy to fit around his players.  

Now the biggest difference is the offensive line - which the Giants can't hold a candle to Dallas.  But we've seen Barkley produce on his own and the Giants have taken steps the last few years to improve that line - Andrew Thomas and Matt Peart picks this year, Will Hernandez pick in 2018, signing guys like Cam Fleming, Nate Solder, and trading for Kevin Zeitler last year.  The offensive line might not be as bad as people remember from a few years ago.  According to PFF, they ended last season with the 17th ranked offensive line - not great but not a sieve by any means.  Most of the negative comments from them are regarding pass protection, which in turn might also lead to more emphasis on the run game.  Adding Thomas and Peart could help strengthen that unit and land them in the top half of the league, maybe even higher.  

Who would I rather take between Barkley or CMC at #1?  Honestly, flip a coin.  You could argue against CMC, citing that his OC who fed him non-stop is no longer in town.  Plus Carolina might have the best set of WRs since CMC got here, possibly leading to less targets in the passing game.  I honestly don't think you can go wrong either way.  Both RBs are studs.  Both RBs have new head coaches, and new offensive systems this season.  

You are smart 

[PizzaBeerFF 757]

52 minutes ago, RunCMC said:

 

Please, do tell more

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Saquon 

Just did