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2021 Universal DH Debate Thread


2ndCitySox
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1 hour ago, StartYourStuds said:

At least he scored the go ahead run and made it 5 innings

A HITTER should have scored that run.  The damn non-DH medieval league called the NL has done it again.

Quote

Elieser Hernandez left after five innings of work against the Pirates with an apparent injury. 

Hernandez was pitching well, but unfortunately, picked up what appears to be a lower-body injury while scoring a run in the top of the sixth inning. The right-hander was making his first start back after dealing with a biceps injury since April 3. He finishes the contest with five innings of work, six strikeouts and just a single run allowed; coming off a Bryan Reynolds homer. More information on Hernandez's status should be made available shortly. 

Pitchers are not hitters nor base runners.  Stop this madness!

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And the lunatic cavemen thinking of the NL claims another:

Quote

Elieser Hernandez left after five innings of work against the Pirates with an apparent injury. 

Hernandez was pitching well, but unfortunately, picked up what appears to be a lower-body injury while scoring a run in the top of the sixth inning. The right-hander was making his first start back after dealing with a biceps injury since April 3. He finishes the contest with five innings of work, six strikeouts and just a single run allowed; coming off a Bryan Reynolds homer. More information on Hernandez's status should be made available shortly. 

A talented young kid just comes off the IL after two long months and bang, down he goes.  Only place a pitcher belongs in baseball is the mound.  Stop this madness and join EVERY other professional league from the AL to the Japan and Korea leagues to high amateur level baseball (aka college) for God's sake!

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

And the lunatic cavemen thinking of the NL claims another:

A talented young kid just comes off the IL after two long months and bang, down he goes.  Only place a pitcher belongs in baseball is the mound.  Stop this madness and join EVERY other professional league from the AL to the Japan and Korea leagues to high amateur level baseball (aka college) for God's sake!

 Dude can;t run the bases without getting hurt then he shouldn't play the game. Lets just put a pitching machine in there and ban human pitchers. Ban base stealing too players get hurt to much stealing bases. Ban breaking balls too cause they hit batters wrists and hands. NL baseball is the only pure baseball the other lgs are circus side shows.

Edited by mks
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15 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

A HITTER should have scored that run.  The damn non-DH medieval league called the NL has done it again.

Pitchers are not hitters nor base runners.  Stop this madness!

Yes they are pitchers have been hitters and baserunners for 150 yrs. 1 of 9 positions. so Otanti can hit has a P when he pitches? and why does the DH have to be used for the pitcher why can't catchers have a DH too? Tons of catchers who can't hit out there too but can play catcher defensively well.

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3 minutes ago, mks said:

 Dude can;t run the bases without getting hurt then he shouldn't play the game. Lets just put a pitching machine in there and ban human pitchers. Ban base stealing too players get hurt to much stealing bases. Ban breaking balls too cause they hit batters wrists and hands. NL baseball is the only pure baseball the other lgs are circus side shows.

Oh stop.  Pitchers can NOT put time into honing hitting skills in modern day baseball. 

It is like in the real old days a football QB would be playing linebacker or be a DB on defense.  Nowadays no one would dream that a QB should be doing such stupid things like that. 

And the time will come baseball fans of the future will scratch their heads as to why pitchers ever hit or ran the bases.  Sports evolve and specialize.  Evolve with it or end up destroying the careers of promising young men for no reason whatsoever.

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1 minute ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Oh stop.  Pitchers can NOT put time into honing hitting skills in modern day baseball. 

It is like in the real old days a football QB would be playing linebacker or be a DB on defense.  Nowadays no one would dream that a QB should be doing such stupid things like that. 

And the time will come baseball fans of the future will scratch their heads as to why pitchers ever hit or ran the bases.  Sports evolve and specialize.  Evolve with it or end up destroying the careers of promising young men for no reason whatsoever.

Othani seems to have the time to do both very well.

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4 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Oh stop.  Pitchers can NOT put time into honing hitting skills in modern day baseball. 

It is like in the real old days a football QB would be playing linebacker or be a DB on defense.  Nowadays no one would dream that a QB should be doing such stupid things like that. 

And the time will come baseball fans of the future will scratch their heads as to why pitchers ever hit or ran the bases.  Sports evolve and specialize.  Evolve with it or end up destroying the careers of promising young men for no reason whatsoever.

Baseball fansn in the future will scratch there heads and wonder how a human managed to play sports  over robots.

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28 minutes ago, mks said:

 Dude can;t run the bases without getting hurt then he shouldn't play the game. Lets just put a pitching machine in there and ban human pitchers. Ban base stealing too players get hurt to much stealing bases. Ban breaking balls too cause they hit batters wrists and hands. NL baseball is the only pure baseball the other lgs are circus side shows.

Wouldn’t be a DH debate without ridiculous straw man arguments.

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1 minute ago, 89Topps said:

Wouldn’t be a DH debate without ridiculous straw man arguments.

 Hernandez got hurt doing simple running.  Whos to say he don't get hurt fielding a bunted ball or running over to back up 3rd base. The issue is Not the DH but in fact its the lack of stretching these guys seem to do. The issue is these guys are suppose to be High level athletes and they can't even handle the simpliest of physicial exersion ( Simple running) on their fragile wittle bodies. I bet these guys most of them couldn't handle 1 day in a basic training unit.

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4 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

You think the one exception proves the rule? Ohtani is a freak. 

deGrom, Mad Bum, Wainright, plenty of other pitchers can handle the bat if they work a little at it. The issue is conditioning of these modran day players, they all seem to lack basic conditioning and flexablity and can't handle even the slightest of physicial exersion. 

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13 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

You think the one exception proves the rule? Ohtani is a freak. 

Its not any diffrent then taking a few exceptions of  pitchers who get hurt hitting or running the bases and say we need to change a rule. 99.9% of all in game pitcher injuries still occur when the pitcher is on the mound.

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1 minute ago, mks said:

Its not any diffrent then taking a few exceptions of  pitchers who get hurt hitting or running the bases and say we need to change a rule. 99.9% of all in game pitcher injuries still occur when the pitcher is on the mound.

Hurt, sure. I actually agree with you with Elieser. Dude was jogging home and grabbed his quad. That shouldn’t happen lol.

But every pitcher sucks at hitting except Ohtani. And it’s because they have a unique job different than anyone else on the field.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, TribeFoo said:

I’m for the DH - unless it gets populated by a bunch of marshmallows like Stanton who are also hurt all the time.

thats what the dh has  become now a bunch of marshmellow guys that can hit but can't play the field or run the bases cause they have bad legs or torsos that can't take the least bit of stress cause they don;t train their bodies correctly.  Stanton Yordan Cruz Franmil  all good hitters but can't play the field or run the bases  who are always getting hurt. The DH now is the fat guy in rec softball that hits a Homer or is a auto out cause he is to fat to even run to 1st base.  

Edited by mks
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Shohei just found time between pitching and hitting home runs to shed a single tear...

I mean, he just hit one - thus the single tear...

EDIT:  Sorry my bad - just missed.  Carry on.

Edited by BMcP
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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, desert86 said:

Has anyone mentioned how much better football got when players stopped going both ways and specialized? Different sports but I think it's along the same lines. 

Yes.

They haven’t - but yes, nonetheless.

Edited by BMcP
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13 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

JD would like to see you outback in the alley asap. 

This will most certainly be an epic alley stomp-down.  Giancarlo will attend though he will injure himself in some fashion.

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This is a really good thread to read through.  I know the NO DH guys think everyone hates them but that couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth.  I think the back and forth debate is great and should be cherished in a day and age where everything is cancel this and cancel that if you have a difference of opinion. 

With that being said I still don't understand why the Universal DH being implemented bothers so many.  I mean I am almost 40 and we had DH's when I was in High School and College.  So you don't have to hit as a pitcher in HS or College but then once you get to a higher level of baseball in AA, AAA, or the NL you are expected to hit again off the best pitchers in the world?.?.?  How does that make sense?  

With all the ways baseball has changed for the worse of late I would not have thought this DH thing would have been such an issue.  You would think the universal DH would be widely accepted with how fragile players seem to be in this generation.  I know the majority of pitchers in the NL don't get hurt from hitting or running bases but if the DH saves just 1 or 2 of them from injury per season then I am all for it.  Also watching pitchers hit is like watching fat guys in skinny jeans...it just doesn't look good!

 

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I think the premise posited here by some - JKS and others - that baseball players are somehow less well conditioned now than in some mythical era of the good old days is laughable. Better conditioning and a more elite level of play is a big part of the reason we see more injuries. This is very clearly true for pitchers where increased velocity is tied directly to injury. A pitcher with a 98mph fastball used to be elite - maybe one per team, often the closer. Now pitchers who can’t reach that velocity are seen as having “a weak fastball.” Pitching velocity alone has led to increased K rates, increased injury risk, and more of a three true outcomes game. What it has not come from is poor conditioning. Pitchers have added velocity through hyper specific training regimens and advanced video work. And while it’s easiest to notice with pitchers it is true across the game.
 

Baseball is played at a faster “velocity” today than it ever has been. Balls are thrown harder, hit harder, and players are running faster than ever before - and injuries are often the result of max effort - this is the result OF conditioning not the lack of it. 
 

I understand you can’t compare eras directly, players have to exist and be compared in the context they play in. However I am confident if you dropped a league average hitter - let’s say an Eric Hosmer into the context of the 60’s-90’s they would immediately become an all star. They would feast on the lower level of velocity, take advantage of teams not having a granular understanding of their ability to hit every pitch type in every section of the strike zone, not to mention gaining from not having the shift. The level of athleticism in today’s game is simply better and even the worst analytical teams are in a better position to maximize this athleticism. This is the result of conditioning, the concentration of international talent, and a better understanding of the underlying physics of the game. 
 

Quite honestly if baseball wanted to immediately add offense and limit injuries they could implement a “speed zone” where every pitch over 97 was an automatic ball. This would immediately decrees K’s, increase contact, reduce pitcher injuries, force pitchers to develop a fuller arsenal, and likely allow starters to go deeper into games. In many ways it would replicate the playing environment of the mid 70’s and 80’s.

The question for all professional sports leagues now becomes with conditioning where it is what kind of game do you want. The NFL has decided that means protecting QB’s at all costs - that means fewer highlight reel sacks and more years or Patrick Mahomes - it’s a calculated decision. But it is a decision you can’t have both things at the same time. And the whole point of these conversations is simply what product does MLB want on the field. 

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