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2021 Universal DH Debate Thread


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35 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

No. It's not even close to the same thing. Also that wouldn't be good for pitchers, health-wise.  The next dumbest thing to let pitchers do healtwhise is probably bat and run the bases. Thank God they got rid of that.

Same thing. Just keep adding more dumb things like the fake dh. Pinch run for a guy and then let the guy come up and bat again later. Who cares that he got ran for. Put him back in. 

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Who determines "the way it was meant to be played?" It sounds like you really just mean "the way the game was played when I grew to love it, is the way it should stay forever."  Sorry to be the one to

We really need to get back to this, guys:  (Not sure what is actually happening but HADUKEN!)

You don't actually think that, do you? That seems like a very out of place line of thinking for someone who spends their free time on a fantasy baseball message board. I'm reminded of that scene

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11 hours ago, FantasyGeek2018 said:

Same thing. Just keep adding more dumb things like the fake dh. Pinch run for a guy and then let the guy come up and bat again later. Who cares that he got ran for. Put him back in. 

Substituting a player mid-game is not the same as having a hitting-only position. 

Again, you don't like the DH, and that's fine. Maybe you will learn to like it, maybe not. But I expect it going forward. It was the only change this year that a majority of fans (75%!) approved of. 

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On 11/13/2020 at 4:31 PM, FantasyGeek2018 said:

I like the game it was meant to be played. Tough call that you want to hit for your pitcher right now yet you want him to stay and pitch another inning or two. I like that you can't have your cake and eat it to in this participation trophy world we live in now.

 

Who determines "the way it was meant to be played?" It sounds like you really just mean "the way the game was played when I grew to love it, is the way it should stay forever."  Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but baseball had already changed dramatically from "the way it was meant to be played" to whatever your "perfect" version of baseball is by the time you fell in love with it.  Just such a change-averse, hold-on-to-the-past-no-matter-what viewpoint.  Keeping things the same just for the sake of keeping them the same is uncreative, unfun and a good way to actually kill the sport.  

Sounds like you should find a local vintage baseball team to watch instead.  7 balls for a walk, HBP is not a free base, foul balls aren't strikes, batter gets to pick whether they want a high or low strike zone.  AKA: the way the game was meant to be played!

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59 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

 

Who determines "the way it was meant to be played?" It sounds like you really just mean "the way the game was played when I grew to love it, is the way it should stay forever."  Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but baseball had already changed dramatically from "the way it was meant to be played" to whatever your "perfect" version of baseball is by the time you fell in love with it.  Just such a change-averse, hold-on-to-the-past-no-matter-what viewpoint.  Keeping things the same just for the sake of keeping them the same is uncreative, unfun and a good way to actually kill the sport.  

Sounds like you should find a local vintage baseball team to watch instead.  7 balls for a walk, HBP is not a free base, foul balls aren't strikes, batter gets to pick whether they want a high or low strike zone.  AKA: the way the game was meant to be played!

Lets make solo hr's worth 3 runs. Move the fences in to 200 feet all around. Don't let pitchers go over 30 pitches a game. Need 6 outs an inning. Change is fun I guess. Trying to please millenials is not good for baseball. Fantasy baseball is the only thing keeping baseball alive with all these fake rules they keep putting in.

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13 hours ago, FantasyGeek2018 said:

Lets make solo hr's worth 3 runs. Move the fences in to 200 feet all around. Don't let pitchers go over 30 pitches a game. Need 6 outs an inning. Change is fun I guess. Trying to please millenials is not good for baseball. Fantasy baseball is the only thing keeping baseball alive with all these fake rules they keep putting in.


Nobody is suggesting any of those changes but ok. Comparing those to a rule half the league has already been using for decades is pretty funny. Sorry the game got better, I know it sucks for you . 

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17 hours ago, OaksterDan said:

Who determines "the way it was meant to be played?" It sounds like you really just mean "the way the game was played when I grew to love it, is the way it should stay forever." 

You make a great point here.  And one the other guy didn't even think through if he considers nostalgia the end all and be all of how baseball should be played.  Because half of all baseball teams have been using the DH almost 50 years now.  So people say anywhere under 55 following AL teams don't remember a time when there wasn't the DH.  It IS "the way it was meant to be played" for them.  So even the anti-DH nostalgia argument he brought up doesn't even work for half of all fans and a good chunk of NL fans that have wanted the DH in their league for years.

No one I ever heard of watching AL games regularly ever wanted to go back to the dark days of pre-DH.  Instead they celebrated the likes of Edgar Martinez and Big Papi and others breathing life and excitement into the game.  They cheered for big rallies that didn't suddenly come to a screeching end when not only the pitcher but the lame #8 batter game up in the line-up. 

I'm so happy I can watch NL games more in the future now.  And should have been enjoying them for a long time except for a certain fishing trip a member of the Phillies ownership took thinking the DH was going to be a given at the NL owners meeting that year and they didn't need his vote at the meeting to confirm the DH which he was all for.  Without that terrible screw-up we would have been playing under one set of rules -- the DH ones -- the last 50 years and the poster with "the way it was meant to be played" would have grown up with the DH too and everyone would be happy.  (Carpenter family you have a lot to answer for).

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13 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:


yes you’re making our point. That pitcher would be hitting.

 

anyway dh is here to stay, again sorry the game got better against your will

The dh is still up in the air for next season. The players haven't voted on it and neither have the owners.

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So on a related note... most of the pitchers I played against growing up were great athletes and incredible hitters. I'd say %75 of anybody I played college ball with were previous pitchers, regardless of what position they played at that point, and most everybody could flat out rake.  Pitchers hit up until college/ Milb level, so what's the reasoning for such a drastic fall from ability once they get to the big league level? (I mean sure, they're being groomed at all the nuances of pitching most of the time, but they still take BP, bunting practice, and are around the game daily... yet most become pathetic flailing stooges who look like it's their first time ever attempting to take a swing! What gives?)

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1 hour ago, LarryChip10 said:

So on a related note... most of the pitchers I played against growing up were great athletes and incredible hitters. I'd say %75 of anybody I played college ball with were previous pitchers, regardless of what position they played at that point, and most everybody could flat out rake.  Pitchers hit up until college/ Milb level, so what's the reasoning for such a drastic fall from ability once they get to the big league level? (I mean sure, they're being groomed at all the nuances of pitching most of the time, but they still take BP, bunting practice, and are around the game daily... yet most become pathetic flailing stooges who look like it's their first time ever attempting to take a swing! What gives?)

 

Because hitting in the majors is really..really..hard.  Especially when you don't do it very often.  The batting avg for pinch hitters throughout a  season is probably not even .220.  And these guys are often kept around for their hitting ability.

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2 hours ago, LarryChip10 said:

So on a related note... most of the pitchers I played against growing up were great athletes and incredible hitters. I'd say %75 of anybody I played college ball with were previous pitchers, regardless of what position they played at that point, and most everybody could flat out rake.  Pitchers hit up until college/ Milb level, so what's the reasoning for such a drastic fall from ability once they get to the big league level? (I mean sure, they're being groomed at all the nuances of pitching most of the time, but they still take BP, bunting practice, and are around the game daily... yet most become pathetic flailing stooges who look like it's their first time ever attempting to take a swing! What gives?)

Also guys that pitched in high school etc were usually star athletes in general.  They were better than their peers down at that level.  They probably played in the field on days they didn't pitch.  All relative.  Once they became professionals they were amid a whole new set of peers who also were stars back in high school. 

At that point the competition got way way higher.  Thus the need to specialize.  If they moved on into a pitching career they no longer played in the field on days they didn't pitch and when they did pitch they just didn't throw straight heat.  They had to learn and command both other pitches.  They had to hone their craft.  No more playing around with wooden sticks.  Not enough time for that stuff.  Even if they could most of them probably wouldn't be able to hit minor league pitching since they were scouted for what they did best.  Not what they "also did" back in high school.  Hit major league pitching decently at the level of an average position player?  Maybe one in a hundred could.

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7 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Also guys that pitched in high school etc were usually star athletes in general.  They were better than their peers down at that level.  They probably played in the field on days they didn't pitch.  All relative.  Once they became professionals they were amid a whole new set of peers who also were stars back in high school. 

At that point the competition got way way higher.  Thus the need to specialize.  If they moved on into a pitching career they no longer played in the field on days they didn't pitch and when they did pitch they just didn't throw straight heat.  They had to learn and command both other pitches.  They had to hone their craft.  No more playing around with wooden sticks.  Not enough time for that stuff.  Even if they could most of them probably wouldn't be able to hit minor league pitching since they were scouted for what they did best.  Not what they "also did" back in high school.  Hit major league pitching decently at the level of an average position player?  Maybe one in a hundred could.

I get it, but I guess what I was trying to say is it's almost like they concede the out. The swing path resembles a T-ball approach of "flailing". You'd think they would develop a resemblance of a smooth swing they once had, and make much louder contact on a regular basis given opposing pitchers tend to pipe fastballs early in the count. 

Anyway, having read all this, and putting nostalgia aside, I've come to realize the days of "NL" baseball are gone, and I'm ok with it honestly. 

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15 hours ago, LarryChip10 said:

So on a related note... most of the pitchers I played against growing up were great athletes and incredible hitters. I'd say %75 of anybody I played college ball with were previous pitchers, regardless of what position they played at that point, and most everybody could flat out rake.  Pitchers hit up until college/ Milb level, so what's the reasoning for such a drastic fall from ability once they get to the big league level? (I mean sure, they're being groomed at all the nuances of pitching most of the time, but they still take BP, bunting practice, and are around the game daily... yet most become pathetic flailing stooges who look like it's their first time ever attempting to take a swing! What gives?)

 

I think it's mostly because of the better competition and the extreme emphasis placed on them to work on pitching. It's just not a priority. 

 

If some pitchers hit decently in high school or college that's just not going to fly against major league pitching. Many hitters who weete great in college don't make it to the majors let alone even an average major league hitter. It's hard and it's not what they're there for.

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3 hours ago, posty said:

Fingers Crossed...

According to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic, MLB instructed clubs in a memo last week "to proceed under the assumption" that the designated hitter will not be used in the National League next year.

This nugget was revealed as part of Rosenthal's notes column on Monday. It came within the greater context of a question of roster size and how it might be impacted by the Rule 5 Draft. MLB implemented the DH in the NL this year due to COVID-19, an effort aimed at reducing the workload on starting pitchers. The uncertainty over the situation has cast a large shadow over the early part of the offseason, as a number of free agents could see their markets slashed in half. Nelson Cruz stands out the most, but Marcell Ozuna could also factor in here. Similarly, a team like the Mets could alter their offseason plans with both Pete Alonso and Dominic Smith in-house. There's always the chance something is negotiated which keeps the DH in the NL -- the players certainly wouldn't mind that -- but the owners would have to get something in return, with expanded playoffs one obvious possibility.

SOURCE: The Athletic
Dec 7, 2020, 9:31 AM ET

Hopefully NL sticks to baseball and not change to the clown show.

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