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2021 Universal DH Debate Thread


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27 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

 

Not to single anybody out ...but to everyone that wants a universal DH is it because of a fake game we play. 

The DH in the NL will change fantasy baseball by taking away the pitcher KS for not having pitchers bat. The advantage of NL pitchers will disappear as a tie breaker between pitchers.

 

I doubt it will have much effect in more quality starts or pitchers staying in games longer. It seems that more and more innings pitched are determined by pitch counts. To lazy to look at the data to see if AL pitchers have more quality starts compared to NL pitchers and even if they do how much would be because of the DH rule.

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We really need to get back to this, guys:  (Not sure what is actually happening but HADUKEN!)

Wow.  I just don't have the time or energy today to get into how ridiculous this take is.

You don't actually think that, do you? That seems like a very out of place line of thinking for someone who spends their free time on a fantasy baseball message board. I'm reminded of that scene

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On 2/15/2021 at 7:28 AM, brockpapersizer said:

I think if you actually looked at every team's DH you'd see a lot of really young elite bats (Yordan, Franmil, Eloy)  who would play elsewhere if it weren't for DH.  The only really old dudes playing Dh regularly (per RR) are Cruz (one of the best hitters in the game) and Miggy (only really there because of contract, but probably is their regular 1b over Renato Nunez)

The DH usually helps some decent but not great hitter get to play the OF more than keeping some fat guy's career alive like @postythinks.   But I know actually looking at the situation objectively is tough for some.

I was speaking from more of a historical point of view. The game has changed so much over the years. Now a more athletic type is preferred rather than the big hulking type. Maybe I should have said I think "historically" it adds years to an aging players career, but my point really is about how the AL has a huge advantage in the world series with it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just don’t get why people have to change it so that both groups of people can’t get what they want.  I love the strategy of the no DH NL.  Long Extra inning games are like the rare treat of the season.  But I accept the other side who points to more jobs for aging sluggers, cutting out some poor at bats by pitchers, etc.  it’s almost like we have the perfect solution for this difference of opinion: one league with a DH and one league without it.  Mind blowing I know.  
 

I actually wouldn’t mind the proposal of having DH tied to the SP and when you yank the starter you lose the DH too

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2 hours ago, merlin401 said:

  But I accept the other side who points to more jobs for aging sluggers, cutting out some poor at bats by pitchers, etc.  i

 

It's just cutting out the poor at bats by pitchers who all range from very bad to god awful at hitting. At least from the fans who want a DH.  Most of the DHs arent aging sluggers, very few are. JD and Cruz being the primary 2. They would be playing in LF/1b and someone else would be riding the pine instead in those situations. 

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Keep the NL rules of no DH... The difference between the leagues is awesome and the strategy involved is great. If pitcher ABs suck then maybe they should spend more time in the cages, at least their ABs are quick and speed the game up.

Bring back home plate collisions. If you don't want to block the plate then don't do it. If you don't want to run into the catcher slide around.

Allow wrist communication device for pitchers and catchers to get rid of sequencing signals that has gotten beyond ridiculous at this point. If you shaved 5 seconds off every pitch in a 300 pitch game you would save 25 minutes of game time, if more than even more time. 

Dump the 3 batter rule, instead if pitching change is made mid inning, the pitcher has 1 warmup pitch, that's it -- you were just throwing in the bullpen.

In between innings pitcher gets 3 warmup pitchers not 9.

Batters get 1 timeout per AB. 

 

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2 hours ago, StevieStats said:

Allow wrist communication device for pitchers and catchers to get rid of sequencing signals that has gotten beyond ridiculous at this point. If you shaved 5 seconds off every pitch in a 300 pitch game you would save 25 minutes of game time, if more than even more time. 

Dump the 3 batter rule, instead if pitching change is made mid inning, the pitcher has 1 warmup pitch, that's it -- you were just throwing in the bullpen.

Batters get 1 timeout per AB. 

 


I'm on board with these ones

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4 hours ago, StevieStats said:

Keep the NL rules of no DH... The difference between the leagues is awesome and the strategy involved is great.

Having a difference between the two leagues is pathetic.  Only professional sport in the world to give one of it's leagues/divisions some retro 1800's "special snowflake" rule to play by.  Leagues/divisions should ALL be uniform throughout professional sports.  Period.

And the NL is THE only league in all of professional baseball to limp by with an outdated and silly rule.  Just not the AL but also no minor league nor Korean nor Japanese nor Taiwanese nor any other professional league but the NL league plays by something this silly.  Hell, college baseball has the DH too.

Also there is NO strategy playing with a pitcher hitting.  It is kindergarten paint-by-numbers stuff when to make changes.

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1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Having a difference between the two leagues is pathetic.  Only professional sport in the world to give one of it's leagues/divisions some retro 1800's "special snowflake" rule to play by.  Leagues/divisions should ALL be uniform throughout professional sports.  Period.

And the NL is THE only league in all of professional baseball to limp by with an outdated and silly rule.  Just not the AL but also no minor league nor Korean nor Japanese nor Taiwanese nor any other professional league but the NL league plays by something this silly.  Hell, college baseball has the DH too.

Also there is NO strategy playing with a pitcher hitting.  It is kindergarten paint-by-numbers stuff when to make changes.

Wait... NL is the one with the silly snowflake rule? Wouldn't that be the AL?... But our pitcher isn't very good at hitting! Please let him play but not hit! Please let someone else hit just for him but not have to play the field! It's not fair! 😆 ... Leave it up to the AL and pretty soon DHs will evolve into DRs as well -- designated runners because watching Nelson Cruz lumber around isn't entertaining... Maybe eventually we can get some DFs, designated fielders so a guy like Jackie Bradley Jr can provide some real value and not have to hold that wooden thing 4 times a game.

Tons of strategy to the NL, especially with double switches and moving guys around and determining when to pull your pitcher in a key situation for a hitter or leave him in the game. You should remember this first hand when John Farrell got completely out managed in the WS vs the Cardinals but the Red Sox won in spite of him anyway. Remember Farrell sending his pitcher up to hit then pulling him after 1 hitter in the bottom of the inning? Yep.

To be honest, yes the DH is cool, but if pitchers aren't going to hit I'd rather just see an 8 man batting order no pitcher hitting no DH.

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6 hours ago, StevieStats said:

Keep the NL rules of no DH... The difference between the leagues is awesome and the strategy involved is great. If pitcher ABs suck then maybe they should spend more time in the cages, at least their ABs are quick and speed the game up.

Bring back home plate collisions. If you don't want to block the plate then don't do it. If you don't want to run into the catcher slide around.

Allow wrist communication device for pitchers and catchers to get rid of sequencing signals that has gotten beyond ridiculous at this point. If you shaved 5 seconds off every pitch in a 300 pitch game you would save 25 minutes of game time, if more than even more time. 

Dump the 3 batter rule, instead if pitching change is made mid inning, the pitcher has 1 warmup pitch, that's it -- you were just throwing in the bullpen.

In between innings pitcher gets 3 warmup pitchers not 9.

Batters get 1 timeout per AB. 

 

Limiting warmup pitches is not a good thing for new pitchers...  The bullpen mound is not the same as the game mound...  Plus starting a new inning a pitcher needs to get loose again to avoid injury...

Other than that, the rest of the stuff is great, especially the NL staying away from the DH...

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7 hours ago, StevieStats said:

Wait... NL is the one with the silly snowflake rule? Wouldn't that be the AL?...

No.  The NL stands alone throughout all of baseball wanting to be a "special snowflake" as in they just have to be different than all of the rest of baseball.  Please,  Time to realize you are part of real baseball, NL.

If not this season you will definitely be next and we can finally lock all threads about the future of the DH.  The DH is here to stay.

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10 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

No.  The NL stands alone throughout all of baseball wanting to be a "special snowflake" as in they just have to be different than all of the rest of baseball.  Please,  Time to realize you are part of real baseball, NL.

If not this season you will definitely be next and we can finally lock all threads about the future of the DH.  The DH is here to stay.

So if we want to be kind to pitchers and not make them fully play baseball...

Dump the DH too, 8 man lineups... More ABs for stars like Trout and Tatis. Not reason to have a substitute hitter, just make it so pitchers don't have a spot in the batting order. 8 hitters. 

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15 minutes ago, StevieStats said:

So if we want to be kind to pitchers and not make them fully play baseball...

Dump the DH too, 8 man lineups... More ABs for stars like Trout and Tatis. Not reason to have a substitute hitter, just make it so pitchers don't have a spot in the batting order. 8 hitters. 

It has nothing to do with "being kind to pitchers".  Whether or not the rules force pitchers to hit or not, they will be terrible at hitting and no amount of practice will change that.  Giving pitchers easy outs is kinder to pitchers than not having them bat. i don't think Trevor Bauer or Stephen Strasburg are losing sleep at night because they have to bat, they know they get paid based on their ability to pitch so their 300 OPS or whatever has no effect on their psyche. 

They got to the show because of their ability to pitch. They are all terrible hitters. 

i'd be fine with 8 hitters and no DH as I have said before, it just doesn't seem like an option that's even being considered. 

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4 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:

It has nothing to do with "being kind to pitchers".  Whether or not the rules force pitchers to hit or not, they will be terrible at hitting and no amount of practice will change that.  Giving pitchers easy outs is kinder to pitchers than not having them bat. i don't think Trevor Bauer or Stephen Strasburg are losing sleep at night because they have to bat, they know they get paid based on their ability to pitch so their 300 OPS or whatever has no effect on their psyche. 

They got to the show because of their ability to pitch. They are all terrible hitters. 

i'd be fine with 8 hitters and no DH as I have said before, it just doesn't seem like an option that's even being considered. 

Let me tell you I think of a lot of weird stuff people never considered before... But 8 man batting orders is one I really love, it solves the DH and pitcher hitting issue and gives more ABs to the regulars. If we can go from 9 planets to 8 why can't we do the same with batting orders?

 

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42 minutes ago, StevieStats said:

Let me tell you I think of a lot of weird stuff people never considered before... But 8 man batting orders is one I really love, it solves the DH and pitcher hitting issue and gives more ABs to the regulars. If we can go from 9 planets to 8 why can't we do the same with batting orders?

 

Not that our dialogue will solve anything, but I really dont want this for fantasy so guys can get QS or something. The only fantasy benefit for me is more hitters getting more looks and AB in the majors. .  

If we did go to 8 man lineups, like you said, more AB for Trout and Tatis which is great for baseball. I want to see the best hitter vs best pitcher as much as possible. 

Anyway, I'm still fine with the DH, but would totally prefer 8 man lineups than having pitchers hit.  I just see this as a 0% chance of happening. 

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1 hour ago, StevieStats said:

Let me tell you I think of a lot of weird stuff people never considered before... But 8 man batting orders is one I really love, it solves the DH and pitcher hitting issue and gives more ABs to the regulars. If we can go from 9 planets to 8 why can't we do the same with batting orders?

Because Pluto wasn't a member of the Baseball Players Association.  Had it been it would still be a planet.  😎

No one is going to take away the paychecks of up to 30 full time players (and 15 now) some of which are among the great power hitters of the game that fans love to see play.  DH is great.  It is to hitting what a pitcher is to pitching.  And 8 man line-ups increases ABs which adds quantities to career home run and steal totals etc which makes it even harder to compare players in past generations.  Baseball is all about the generations.

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4 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Because Pluto wasn't a member of the Baseball Players Association.  Had it been it would still be a planet.  😎

No one is going to take away the paychecks of up to 30 full time players (and 15 now) some of which are among the great power hitters of the game that fans love to see play.  DH is great.  It is to hitting what a pitcher is to pitching.  And 8 man line-ups increases ABs which adds quantities to career home run and steal totals etc which makes it even harder to compare players in past generations.  Baseball is all about the generations.

The dude banging the table about generations wants a DH when Babe Ruth who was the HR champ for years was a pitcher. So ironic Alanis Moresette is singing it now.

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13 hours ago, StevieStats said:

The dude banging the table about generations wants a DH when Babe Ruth who was the HR champ for years was a pitcher. So ironic Alanis Moresette is singing it now.

Babe Ruth didn't start hitting like that till he stopped pitching.

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