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James Harden 2020-2021 Outlook


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1 minute ago, NoHablaIngles said:

 

I offered Harden for Tatum and was swiftly rejected. If you can get any top-10 guy for Harden, you do it... but from my experience, I have been able to have any luck moving him for a top-10 guy

At this point if you get a top t 10 guy you are getting a steal.

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This thread is crazy. It's James Harden. Trade for Zach Lavine? What in the world...

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Ebbs and flows man, it is what it is and chemistry takes time.  Kyrie and Durant aren't exactly ironmen so I could see a lot of avenues for fantasy success with higher usage for Harden by the time this season ends.

 

It's been 5 games.  Guys are obviously going to need time to establish roles and not step on each others' toes.  Will Harden put up his last few seasons' numbers?  No, probably not but I'm gonna go ahead and take a guess that he'll improve on what has happened in his first few games in BKN and be just fine.

 

Do you think Lebron came out in his first games in MIA with Bosh and Wade and was a world-beater?  Well, he wasn't.

 

Lebron first 8 games in MIA:   37 mpg, 44% FGs, 20.6 pts, with 4.4 TOs

Harden first 5 games in BKN:  41 mpg, 44% FGs, 23.6 pts, with 5.8 TOs

 

Looks a little similar.  Listen, maybe Harden is a huge f***in fail by seasons' end like he is every post season but honestly this isn't that out of the norm for the situation.  People should stop panicking every time a proven player has a few bad games, and the rest of us wont have to crack jokes about it.

 

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Brooklyn offense isnt the problem. They dont need Harden to try and take over when Irving and KD have been taking over at an efficient clip. Its their defense that sucks and we all know Harden's reputation with defense. On top of that Irving is way more of a scorer than he is a point guard while Harden is more of a passing point guard who can score, but they need him to pass.

 

Brooklyn needs to play with the strength of each player. Irving is great at creating his own shot, getting to the hoop, shooting. Durant is the best player on the team we all know what he can do, give him the ball he does anything he wants. Harden is great at creating his own shot, getting to the hoop, AND PASSING. Irving is decent at passing, nowhere near Harden. Gotta let Irving do what Harden used to do and on times when Irving is having an off night let Harden do what Irving does while Irving tries to be the passer. Most times though, it has to be Irving doing what hes been doing.

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1 hour ago, EsTiLO said:

He’s been a bust so far, unfortunately for us that spent a high pick for him. We basically drafted Rondo w/ our high draft pick smh

 

i made my peace with it. sometime you gamble and win, sometimes you gamble and lose.

to be honest, i never thought he would be traded to brooklyn, that their package would be ever good enough for houston. hoped for a trade to the sixers and him as the main ball handler there. but it was not meant to be. hindsight 20/20

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You just cant have two iso players if you expect to win a championship. Irving and Harden are iso players if you want harden to do what he did in Houston. What did we all love about Harden in Houston? Hold the ball for 22 seconds dribble dribble dribble shoot or dribble dribble dribble get fouled or dribble dribble dribble oh crap I have no shot theres 2 seconds left on the clock here you go teammate.

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5 minutes ago, G.O.B. said:

what i loved about harden in houston?

elite points

elite 3s

elite FT

elite steals

😄

and elite assists whenever he wanted to

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51 minutes ago, G.O.B. said:

what i loved about harden in houston?

elite points

elite 3s

elite FT

elite steals

😄

Of course being the ball dominant guy who offense ran through him considering last year he jacked up 22 FG a game and the year before that 25 FG a game with 12 FTA a game last year and 11 FTA a game the year before that. Hes never getting that again, but he still get steals 8 games with Houston 7 steals vs first 3 games with Brooklyn 6 steals. Steals will come, points will come, FT of course, and 3s will but hes not going to be jacking up shots anymore. He should be more aggressive though and he will be. Might lead the league in assists now with this team. I think 25 points 6 rebounds 12 assists 2-3 threes a game can be easily had.

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6 steals in 5 games is not elite. neither is 1.0 for the season so far. in fact, that's pretty mediocre at best.

but yes, compared to his other elite catergories i listed above, the steals is the one i could see coming back

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8 minutes ago, G.O.B. said:

6 steals in 5 games is not elite. neither is 1.0 for the season so far. in fact, that's pretty mediocre at best.

but yes, compared to his other elite catergories i listed above, the steals is the one i could see coming back

I never said that was elite....I said he has almost has many steals in less than half the games so far with Brooklyn than he had with the rockets this season. But guess what? 6 steals in 3 games equals to 2 per game. What did he have last season? 1.8 steals per game, the year before that? 2.1 steals per game, 3 years ago? 1.8 steals per game......soo...........

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5 minutes ago, Johnnyapplebot said:

I never said that was elite....I said he has almost as many steals in less than half the games so far with Brooklyn than he had with the rockets this season. But guess what? 6 steals in 3 games equals to 2 per game. What did he have last season? 1.8 steals per game, the year before that? 2.1 steals per game, 3 years ago? 1.8 steals per game......soo...........

 

yes, but he had 6 steals in the 5 games for brooklyn so far

you can't just ignore the other ones where he didn't have one.

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harden career steals per game is 1.7 last threes years been great. no sign of decline and those numbers show he should be elite in steals ROS

also 0.7 blk floor last 4 years is also undervalued fantasy wise when talking about harden

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22 minutes ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

They want Kyrie to be the 3rd option:

Kyrie: 34.3 PPG, 5.0 APG on 56% shooting and 45.3% from 3. Since he came back.

Durant: 31 PPG, 7.2 REB and 5.8 APG on 53% shooting...

 

 

 

I kept saying in this thread, Kyrie is not sacrificing his shots for Harden. Hes going to tell him yo came here cause we wanted you, you have to sacrifice. Their defense sucks but they could easily have been 2-1 considering it took a buzzer beater to send the game into OT their first official game together as the big 3. Irving taking complete control and doing damage the 2 games before and then last night scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to basically win the game doesnt give the Nets any incentive to change things now and tell Kyrie to take a back seat.

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Also its a different topic but if you have never been a teammate of James Harden and you saw what he did in Houston quitting on his franchise and having players like John Wall and Cousins calling him out, do you really want him to be the leader/alpha of your team? You got KD but hes that quiet leader, then you got Irving who took his personal vacation which can also constitute as quitting on your team unless he specifically told his teammates this is what i am going to do but im coming back dont worry just dont speak about it anyone, then you have to look at him as well he signed here cause he wants to be here and with him came KD.

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3 minutes ago, Johnnyapplebot said:

Also its a different topic but if you have never been a teammate of James Harden and you saw what he did in Houston quitting on his franchise and having players like John Wall and Cousins calling him out, do you really want him to be the leader/alpha of your team? You got KD but hes that quiet leader, then you got Irving who took his personal vacation which can also constitute as quitting on your team unless he specifically told his teammates this is what i am going to do but im coming back dont worry just dont speak about it anyone, then you have to look at him as well he signed here cause he wants to be here and with him came KD.

Kyrie has burned bridges from every NBA team he's played for and KD quit on his team for easy wins with the very team that beat them. You can paint any narrative to any player, I guarantee the Nets couldn't care less who calls shots as long as they win.

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2 minutes ago, apk158 said:

Kyrie has burned bridges from every NBA team he's played for and KD quit on his team for easy wins with the very team that beat them. You can paint any narrative to any player, I guarantee the Nets couldn't care less who calls shots as long as they win.

easy answer, KD calls the shots. Case closed.

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I own no shares of Harden or Irving but I have shares in Durant. If I’m the coach despite what must want in here from their previous #1 pick; what Harden is doing is fine. Be a facilitator. The Thunder realized it when it was too late and the Warriors won 2 championships with him, you have Durant lead the team and you will go far. We all know Kyrie isn’t a leader but his ego from that 1 championship has him thinking so. The coach needs to realize that okay Durant and Kyrie can score 30 a piece. Boom that’s 60 points from your stars. Now if Harden can drop his 15 and get the “others” involved to keep them in rhythm (Green, Harris, DJ and Perry) they have a great chance on winning games. Harden as a facilitator works great because they will think he will pass but forget that on any given night he can drop 40.

Edited by RedDogNamedClippers
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3 minutes ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

I own no shares of Harden or Irving but I have shares in Durant. If I’m the coach despite what must want in here from their previous #1 pick; what Harden is doing is fine. Be a facilitator. The Thunder realized it when it was too late and the Warriors won 2 championships with him, you have Durant lead the team and you will go far. We all Kyrie isn’t a leader but his ego from that 1 championship has him thinking so. The coach needs to realize that okay Durant and Kyrie can score 30 a piece. Boom that’s 60 points from your stars. Now if Harden can drop his 15 and get the “others” involved to keep them in rhythm (Green, Harris, DJ and Perry) they have a great chance on winning games. Harden as a facilitator works great because they will think he will pass but forget that on any given night he can drop 40.

10000% agree with you. This is exactly what I am driving at. The Nets announcers said in the game last night the Nets have no problem with Harden taking few shot attempts because hes getting everyone involved. Irving ego is massive and KD is the silent leader who the Nets wanted, they didnt want Irving but it was a packaged deal. You know good and well that KD told the Nets I want Harden get him if hes available and the Nets were quick to say SIR YES SIR and gave away 10 years of their future for him.

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Yup, no respect for Harden right now. Few pedestrian games so people are panicking as soon as I manage to get decent return. Traded Harden, Ibaka for Embiid, Ingram and the league vetoed it in 5 minutes.

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4 minutes ago, mtx said:

Yup, no respect for Harden right now. Few pedestrian games so people are panicking as soon as I manage to get decent return. Traded Harden, Ibaka for Embiid, Ingram and the league vetoed it in 5 minutes.

Embiid has been playing top 5. Ingram is an early rounder....ibaka is a late rounder and Harden is no longer a first rounder. I can see the veto.

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1 hour ago, Johnnyapplebot said:

Embiid has been playing top 5. Ingram is an early rounder....ibaka is a late rounder and Harden is no longer a first rounder. I can see the veto.

That's the sell high part - if Embiid continues to play top-5 for ROS and doesn't miss random games. And Harden obviously a buy low having 0 practice with his team, barely any meaningful games under his belt, and being careless with the TOs. What happens when Embiid goes back to 25/10 missing 25% games and Harden goes back to 4 3PTM/25 PPG, 15 AST, 2 SPG? Rotowire Projections for ROS says the trade is fair and not so lopsided that it is veto worthy.

Either way Harden is going to get better from here on out........ whether he deserves the respect and patience is another story.

 

 

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2 hours ago, mtx said:

That's the sell high part - if Embiid continues to play top-5 for ROS and doesn't miss random games. And Harden obviously a buy low having 0 practice with his team, barely any meaningful games under his belt, and being careless with the TOs. What happens when Embiid goes back to 25/10 missing 25% games and Harden goes back to 4 3PTM/25 PPG, 15 AST, 2 SPG? Rotowire Projections for ROS says the trade is fair and not so lopsided that it is veto worthy.

Either way Harden is going to get better from here on out........ whether he deserves the respect and patience is another story.

 

 

you are right i see your point.

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