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James Wiseman 2020-2021 Outlook


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Being a Clippers fan is a sign of bad judgment. So yes. 

14 and 4 with 2 blocks and 2 threes at halftime ūü§°

If this is how butthurt the haters are after one game, it's gonna be a long season for you guys, James going to be eating non stop

15 hours ago, chickennuggets said:

What do you guys think of this guy ROS? Seriously considering dropping him for Robert Williams.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rob Will does better ROS, honestly.  GSW is gonna hold Wiseman back with Kerr's obsession on small lineups and the eventual return of Looney.  As long as Rob Will gets more than 15 mpg (and it seems they're only keeping him there for precautions), he should edge out Wiseman, who is gonna be treated with kid gloves.

I doubt Wiseman plays both games of the B2B even if he gets cleared for tomorrow.

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23 minutes ago, MWon said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Rob Will does better ROS, honestly.  GSW is gonna hold Wiseman back with Kerr's obsession on small lineups and the eventual return of Looney.  As long as Rob Will gets more than 15 mpg (and it seems they're only keeping him there for precautions), he should edge out Wiseman, who is gonna be treated with kid gloves.

I doubt Wiseman plays both games of the B2B even if he gets cleared for tomorrow.

They are only playing Rob Will because Smart is injured and they are compensating with more bigs with the starting lineup. 

Wiseman's injury is not as serious as say a knee injury. If they treat him with kid's gloves then are they deciding to burn out 30 year old Draymond just so they have a shot at the playoffs? 

I am certain they will let Wiseman play as much as they can while ahead and use more Draymond when they need to desperately win games (though he did directly cost them 2 games).

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I made the switch. But I'm not thrilled about it. I don't anticipate Looney being the starting pivot ROS and I like Wiseman. They have had some success with the small ball lineups though and Wiseman's mins were trending down prior to the injury. Dubs are trying to balance pushing for the playoffs and developing Wiseman. And it's pretty clear that he doesn't help in the winning department at the moment.

This could mean that, when he's playing well, he gets extended mins and, when he's playing poorly, he'll get yanked.  I could see a scenario where Looney gets 15-20 a night, Draymond plays 10-15 small ball, leaving Wiseman anywhere from 13-23 mins. 

Robert Williams, on the other hand, is limited by a mins restriction and offers an immediate solution to the Celtics' center needs. He is also stuck in a 20 min role at the moment, though, but offering top-50 production whenever he hits that mark. I think RWIII offers the greater upside, which is why I made the switch. I think Wiseman has the clearer path to 25 mins/night though but it'll be a bumpier ride.

A lot of what I wrote is just conjecture, though, and my own rationale. At times like these, I like to default to the wise words of Adam Levin & Kendrick Lamar: yolo. 

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They are balancing between playing Wiseman and winning. But they will never tank. Just having Curry on your team makes you a .500 team.

SOOOOO, they want to thread a needle, get into a late seed, and hope Wiseman has developed enough to be useful in the playoffs. Crazier things have happened.

My guess is they will play him ~22-25 minutes for a long while, and will have a short leash on him. With any luck, Wiseman will begin to click by late March. They would need him to be a positive contributor by the time playoffs happen. Their upside would be so much higher if Wiseman could develop to a fraction of his potential.

 

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I dunno, I just don't think winning and playing Wiseman are mutually exclusive. 

When he was playing, he played well and did exactly what the Dubs wanted and needed - he blocked shots, took up space, and was, for the most part, a pretty good shooter and inside presence on offense.  As a BA native, watching the games made me excited to see the big man the Dubs never had (after having gone through mostly small ball, mediocre bigs, and a few years of Bogut).  The losses early on were basically seeing Wiggins and Oubre brick wide open treys, and either playing without Dray or waiting for him to shake off the rust (and lately, causing a few losses on his own).

I guess I think that coddling Wiseman doesn't really work; look at other rookies who get lots of PT - Hali, Edwards, and Ball all look excellent (and Pat Will has shown flashes). When Wiseman was getting minutes in the upper 20s, he made Kerr look like a genius for letting him loose. And I feel that he works with the Dubs' current lineup of Curry/Wiggins/Oubre/Dray, offering rim protection, rebounding, and the ability to score from the post or from distance.

But as I said before, Kerr's got some sort of weird infatuation with Looney (who just looks awful out there) and guys like JTA and Paschall for big man minutes.  Highly doubt Wiseman gets more than 20 minutes until late in the season.

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Looney makes lesser mistakes than Wiseman. That’s really all there is to it. Wiseman’s obviously their most talented true center, but he’s a rookie and having watched a bunch of GSW games (cause I have Curry and Dray on my team too), kid messes up. If the Warriors had Klay, and were dominating opponents and winning 65%+ of their games, hell yea they’d play Wiseman a lot cause they’d have wiggle room. But they’re not a great team at the moment, and they still want to make the playoffs, so those mistakes hurt. So they’ll keep him hovering around 20-25 min. Enough to continue to develop him and give him the runway to have the occasional explosive game, but not enough to grind him down or have him be too much of a liability. Not best for our fantasy teams, but best for the Warriors for this season.

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2 hours ago, MWon said:

But as I said before, Kerr's got some sort of weird infatuation with Looney (who just looks awful out there)

It's not weird or an infatuation.  I've watched every Dubs game this year:

Wiseman is insanely talented but he makes a lot of mistakes, commits a lot of fouls, and has a lot of slip ups on D.

(None of which are his fault, he's 19 years old)

Looney is a vet who has played in Championship series.  He's not as talented but he's a solid big who won't lose the game for you down the stretch or in critical moments.

That's why he is *rightfully* getting minutes at Wiseman's expense and will continue to for the remainder of the season.

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9 minutes ago, alexstr said:

It's not weird or an infatuation.  I've watched every Dubs game this year:

Wiseman is insanely talented but he makes a lot of mistakes, commits a lot of fouls, and has a lot of slip ups on D.

(None of which are his fault, he's 19 years old)

Looney is a vet who has played in Championship series.  He's not as talented but he's a solid big who won't lose the game for you down the stretch or in critical moments.

That's why he is *rightfully* getting minutes at Wiseman's expense and will continue to for the remainder of the season.

All of the above is true, but in addition, Kerr runs a lot of GSW-only plays to free up Curry and shooters. Looney knows the plays.

Kerr needs to diversify and ideally, run a play early for his raw big man to get him going. The raw big man is a rare offensive talent.

I think this is a failing on Kerr's part, inability to adapt his playbook to the new tool in the kit. Kerr has at least voiced as much, let's see if he acts on his own promises now.

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I don't even wanna activate him yet till I see 3 straight good games he can sit in my IL, that's what that spot is for to hold and wait n see approach. He wasn't that good before he got hurt I'm not gonna expect much coming back till he proves he belongs on my championship roster lol 

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1 hour ago, alexstr said:

It's not weird or an infatuation.  I've watched every Dubs game this year:

Wiseman is insanely talented but he makes a lot of mistakes, commits a lot of fouls, and has a lot of slip ups on D.

(None of which are his fault, he's 19 years old)

Looney is a vet who has played in Championship series.  He's not as talented but he's a solid big who won't lose the game for you down the stretch or in critical moments.

That's why he is *rightfully* getting minutes at Wiseman's expense and will continue to for the remainder of the season.

I think we're gonna have to disagree here then.  I don't wanna get into a "I'm a bigger fan than you" or "I've watched more games than you" matchup, because that's just stupid and a waste of time. I guess we're seeing different things.

I'm just gonna say that, again, I'm a BA native who's been following the Dubs since before Adonal Foyle; I'm impressed with Wiseman, and I think Looney often looks helpless out there - He got backed down and scored on in three straight possessions by Jrue Holiday of all people in the playoffs two years ago.  The league's quickly rotating from small lineups to big ones and the Dubs are discovering that everyone's either doing small ball better than them, or are moving into big lineups with premier Cs.  It just makes so much more sense to start playing Wiseman now to get him some experience, because in the West, you don't want Looney starting against Gobert or Joker, who probably dwarf him by nearly half a foot, would love to dunk or shoot over him, and wouldn't mind sagging off him on D to double Curry. Why not play a young big who can attack the rim, shoot, and block shots against guys his height?

As far as his weaknesses, definitely. Wiseman's not a great help defender, commits lots of fouls and mistakes, and oftentimes he attempts a shot that Curry/Wiggins probably should've taken.  Then again, when is he gonna learn? This is the best time to teach him. To your point, why would you want to play a vet right now?  His experience isn't going to help much, unless you want to expose him to getting injured, as he is now, and is oft to do throughout his short career.  Then sure, I guess the Dubs will be FORCED into giving Wiseman minutes in the playoffs out of necessity.

1 hour ago, hornrimmed_rambis said:

All of the above is true, but in addition, Kerr runs a lot of GSW-only plays to free up Curry and shooters. Looney knows the plays.

Kerr needs to diversify and ideally, run a play early for his raw big man to get him going. The raw big man is a rare offensive talent.

I think this is a failing on Kerr's part, inability to adapt his playbook to the new tool in the kit. Kerr has at least voiced as much, let's see if he acts on his own promises now.

Agreed.  I think that's probably the reason why Kerr loves Looney - he knows the Dubs' playbook.  Then again, if that's the only reason to hold Wiseman back, that's a pretty stupid one, at least during the regular season.  At the very least, give Wiseman minutes to learn the rotation and figure out how to play with the starting lineup, since they drafted him at #2, otherwise they're looking rather foolish for not drafting Lamelo (who is getting unleashed and looks NBA ready) instead.  I'd hope that Wiseman is a real part of their future, but it just doesn't look like it with the way they're treating him (again, compared to the Wolves, Hornets, Kings, and Bulls, who are fine with unleashing their prized rookies).

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1 hour ago, gymchamp said:

Good first game back. I'm guessing he didn't play at all in the 4th though?

Correct. No problem, he did well in the minutes he had.

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3 minutes ago, XOB said:

I feel like the Warriors are going to regret drafting this dude one day if they don't already. He's pretty trash from what I've seen.

He's not trash but he's incredibly raw.  Considering Giannis was putting up around 7/4/2 at the same age I think he has plenty of time to put it together.

That being said...as a Warriors fan...I'm salivating what we'd look like with Lamelo RN

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6 minutes ago, XOB said:

I feel like the Warriors are going to regret drafting this dude one day if they don't already. He's pretty trash from what I've seen.

Calm the eff down dude. He played 3 college games, no pre season and gets to develop on a sick franchise. Bigs always take more time he'll be fine 

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5 minutes ago, DonutGiveUp said:

Calm the eff down dude. He played 3 college games, no pre season and gets to develop on a sick franchise. Bigs always take more time he'll be fine 

I completely agree he can turn it around and have a good career i just feel like they will regret spending such a high pick on him. I would be more than happy to be wrong about that. Don't point guards take the most time to develop though? i feel like centers take less time to develop.

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2 minutes ago, XOB said:

I completely agree he can turn it around and have a good career i just feel like they will regret spending such a high pick on him. I would be more than happy to be wrong about that. Don't point guards take the most time to develop though? i feel like centers take less time to develop.

Draft class wasn't great and they needed a big so it made sense. I personally did not understand why they passed on Ball considering Curry is getting up there in age but time will tell 

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yeah wiseman looks rough. there's zero chance bob myers isn't internally kicking himself every night for passing on lamelo.

 

not saying wiseman can't ever pan out, but lamelo is ready to contribute to winning now. wiseman clearly isn't

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16 minutes ago, lethotjames23 said:

yeah wiseman looks rough. there's zero chance bob myers isn't internally kicking himself every night for passing on lamelo.

 

not saying wiseman can't ever pan out, but lamelo is ready to contribute to winning now. wiseman clearly isn't

It's tougher for a big man to look good in today's NBA because he has to be the backline of the defense. Lamelo is out there doing what he's always been best at doing - shooting and passing - while his teammates pick up the hardest part of basketball: defense. Wiseman is being asked to do the opposite. It doesn't matter what Wiseman can do on offense, unlike Melo, he can't get on the court if he can't hold on defensively. 

Lamelo will put up numbers get on highlight reels, but Wiseman will have bigger impact on the game once he matures a bit. Playoffs have shown over and over again that guards don't win. The team who the tallest, biggest skilled players will win. Trust me, Meyers isn't kicking himself. He's more than happy about what Wiseman has been doing and will become. 

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2 hours ago, XOB said:

I completely agree he can turn it around and have a good career i just feel like they will regret spending such a high pick on him. I would be more than happy to be wrong about that. Don't point guards take the most time to develop though? i feel like centers take less time to develop.

It's the opposite. Look at Ayton, Jokic even Nurkic. Took/taking some time for them to contribute in winning ways.

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