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James Wiseman 2020-2021 Outlook


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23 minutes ago, bballshinobi said:

It's tougher for a big man to look good in today's NBA because he has to be the backline of the defense. Lamelo is out there doing what he's always been best at doing - shooting and passing - while his teammates pick up the hardest part of basketball: defense. Wiseman is being asked to do the opposite. It doesn't matter what Wiseman can do on offense, unlike Melo, he can't get on the court if he can't hold on defensively. 

Lamelo will put up numbers get on highlight reels, but Wiseman will have bigger impact on the game once he matures a bit. Playoffs have shown over and over again that guards don't win. The team who the tallest, biggest skilled players will win. Trust me, Meyers isn't kicking himself. He's more than happy about what Wiseman has been doing and will become. 

 

i kind of agree with you, but at the same time i don't. the last few years proved you can win a title in a variation of ways. the way the lakers won it was completely different than how the raptors won it.

to win you just need guys that can both shoot/stretch the floor AND play defense, and those guys have to surround superstars that can create great looks for others or themselves . the raptors had those type of guys in their 8 man rotation in 2019 with lowry/danny green/vanvleet/kawhi/siakam/ibaka/gasol/and powell. the lakers had that last year with lebron/danny/kcp/davis/caruso

the appeal of wiseman's potential is that he'll be one of those bigs that can both stretch the floor/play great defense/score inside. but as of now he can't do any of those things. curry is about to be 33 in a week. they have no time to lose. drafting lamelo would have given them a guy who can create shots for others and himself efficiently. if you can't see he's pretty much already elite at that in his short time in the league, i'm not sure what to tell you. this isn't a fluke. he has an amazing feel and understanding for the game like his brother and he's aggressive as hell. that type of player can be effective in any situation both going forward and right now. it might take wiseman 3-4 or more years to get to that point. which will be well past curry's window.

 

it sounds like you're a warriors fan, and i understand kind of.. bending reality in order to make yourself feel better about it, but they messed up big time here. i promise you the organization would have been incredibly enthusiastic about their chances to return to being a dynasty if they had drafted lamelo over wiseman right now. klay can easily play the 3 in today's NBA. a closing lineup of curry/ball/klay/oubre/green would have been deadly. and we can argue about whether or not that would be enough to take on the lakers (who i think are favorites in literally every situation just by having lebron james and anthony davis) but they'd be much better served for the next couple years than they will be now with wiseman. just being honest

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Being a Clippers fan is a sign of bad judgment. So yes. 

14 and 4 with 2 blocks and 2 threes at halftime 🤡

If this is how butthurt the haters are after one game, it's gonna be a long season for you guys, James going to be eating non stop

7 hours ago, falconish said:

It's the opposite. Look at Ayton, Jokic even Nurkic. Took/taking some time for them to contribute in winning ways.

Jokic was great his rookie season actually. There's also bigs like Porzingis, Towns, Anthony Davis, Embiid  etc. who were all great their rookie seasons while there's guards like Kemba, Lowry, Billups who weren't great until well into their careers. Ayton is basically still the same as his rookie year maybe slightly better.

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8 hours ago, bballshinobi said:

It's tougher for a big man to look good in today's NBA because he has to be the backline of the defense. Lamelo is out there doing what he's always been best at doing - shooting and passing - while his teammates pick up the hardest part of basketball: defense. Wiseman is being asked to do the opposite. It doesn't matter what Wiseman can do on offense, unlike Melo, he can't get on the court if he can't hold on defensively. 

Lamelo will put up numbers get on highlight reels, but Wiseman will have bigger impact on the game once he matures a bit. Playoffs have shown over and over again that guards don't win. The team who the tallest, biggest skilled players will win. Trust me, Meyers isn't kicking himself. He's more than happy about what Wiseman has been doing and will become. 

I think you're kind of in denial. LaMelo is not some highlights player he is one of the best young guards in the NBA with legitimate superstar potential. Did the Warriors themselves not just win multiple titles because they had one of the best guards in the NBA? I would argue that its very hard to win a title without having an elite ball handler and history shows that time and time again.

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3 hours ago, XOB said:

I would argue that its very hard to win a title without having an elite ball handler and history shows that time and time again.

Man if only Golden State had an elite ball handler.  Maybe even one who could shoot the three a bit.  Think of how dangerous theyd be.

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1 hour ago, alexstr said:

Man if only Golden State had an elite ball handler.  Maybe even one who could shoot the three a bit.  Think of how dangerous theyd be.

Warriors fan bballshinobi, "Playoffs have shown over and over again that guards don't win."

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1 hour ago, XOB said:

Warriors fan bballshinobi, "Playoffs have shown over and over again that guards don't win."

I actually hate the Warriors. Not a fan at all. I don't think they won anything. None of their championship were deserving. It's like if Carmelo brags about his 3 or 4 Olympic gold medals. I don't even bother looking up how many gold medals he has because nobody cares about it. If you are on Team USA, you show up and you win. There's no glory or achievement in that. 

  • 2015: Kyrie and Love went down, took 6 games to finish Cavs whose second best player was... Tristan Thompson
  • 2016: choked and got their feelings hurt
  • 2017: the biggest bitch in NBA joined the bitchiest team in NBA history, won by just showing up
  • 2018: same story
  • 2019: lost in the Finals when they only had 3 allstar caliber players instead of 5

Steph wasn't the best player in any of these finals. Lebron and KD were - biggest skilled players in the game. 

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6 hours ago, XOB said:

I think you're kind of in denial. LaMelo is not some highlights player he is one of the best young guards in the NBA with legitimate superstar potential. Did the Warriors themselves not just win multiple titles because they had one of the best guards in the NBA? I would argue that its very hard to win a title without having an elite ball handler and history shows that time and time again.

I didn't say he isn't/won't be a superstar. He may very well be. I think he's special and will definitely be an allstar. But great guards are dime a dozen in the NBA. It's more important to have a big skilled player like Lebron, AD, KD, or Kawhi. I want to say Giannis too but he's really not skilled lol. The bigger the better when you are a skill player. You won't find too many players above 6'10" who have guard skills on offense and still hold up defensively, yet I can give you a list of at least 15 point guards who are good enough to help you win a championship as 2nd or 3rd option. 

Just ask yourself this: in any fantasy draft, do you pick big man first or point guard first? After the 2nd round are you still finding big man who is a "good basketball player" if he's not 7 feet tall? How many good guards can you still get in the 6-7th rounds? 

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I came here to talk Wiseman. Now I guess I will grab some popcorn and wait for the flame war.

 

Kenan Thompson Reaction GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
 
 

 

 
 
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Steve Kerr's comments in the SF Chronicle are very revealing:

 

“Where we are right now, he needs to play more. There’s no doubt we’ve got to develop him. And I would say over the last couple of weeks, he has not played as much as he will.”

Wiseman, 19, entered Thursday ranked first among rookies in blocks (1.1 per game), second in rebounds (5.7) and fifth in scoring (11.8), but he was just 16th in minutes per game (20.2). Since missing 3½ weeks with a sprained left wrist, he has failed to top the 20-minute mark in four of five games.

This underscored a tricky situation Kerr has had to navigate this season: whether to prioritize Wiseman’s development over a playoff chase. The Warriors entered Thursday ninth in the Western Conference at 19-17, just 1½ games behind San Antonio for sixth place.

The teams with the seventh-through-10th-best records in each conference will participate in a play-in tournament for the seventh and eighth seeds in the playoffs, which Golden State hopes to avoid. Given that Wiseman still has much to learn about playing in the NBA, particularly on the defensive end, Kerr recognizes that Kevon Looney often gives the Warriors a better chance during crucial stretches.

But as much as the Warriors want to get the best playoff seed possible, they know that Wiseman’s development will be key to their hopes of returning to title contention next season. Less than four months removed from going No. 2 in the NBA draft, Wiseman is clearly Golden State’s franchise-center-in-waiting.

To get him more consistent, the Warriors realize they must play him more minutes — even if it could hurt the team’s chances of winning in the near-term. Kerr isn’t sure whether he’ll continue to start Wiseman after the All-Star break, but he knows he’ll still get Wiseman well north of 20 minutes per game.

“Whether he starts coming back out of the break or not, we definitely need to get him more time,” Kerr said.

 

Let's see if the minutes come.

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Wiseman is garbage for fantasy this year.

He’s not going to make any meaningful positive impact in the Warrior’s season. He’s too raw and makes too many mistakes. That’s he won’t get enough minutes cause he’s a walking liability.

He was the best fit for the Warriors at #2. And next season, he’ll be a great late-mid round sleeper in fantasy, and will actually have a meaningful impact.

Also, Lamelo is awesome, but a team with 2 ball handlers already in  the form of Steph and Dray, absolutely does not need another ball handler. Warriors were never going to win the title this year, so it made sense to go for Wiseman.

 

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5 hours ago, bballshinobi said:

I didn't say he isn't/won't be a superstar. He may very well be. I think he's special and will definitely be an allstar. But great guards are dime a dozen in the NBA. It's more important to have a big skilled player like Lebron, AD, KD, or Kawhi. I want to say Giannis too but he's really not skilled lol. The bigger the better when you are a skill player. You won't find too many players above 6'10" who have guard skills on offense and still hold up defensively, yet I can give you a list of at least 15 point guards who are good enough to help you win a championship as 2nd or 3rd option. 

Just ask yourself this: in any fantasy draft, do you pick big man first or point guard first? After the 2nd round are you still finding big man who is a "good basketball player" if he's not 7 feet tall? How many good guards can you still get in the 6-7th rounds? 

The thing that makes LaMelo so intriguing is that he does have size and skill being a 6'7 point guard. Having a guy like Lebron or KD lessens the need to have a good pg but you will find that even those guys needed good pgs in their history to actually win some of those titles. Lebron had Kyrie in Cleveland who carried him at points and KD needed Steph. Lebron is also arguably the greatest player of all time so he is basically a cheat code when it comes to roster construction. I highly doubt you can name 15 point guards good enough to win you a chip as the 2nd or 3rd option. I would say there is like 5. Steph, Dame, Lowry (probably not anymore), CP (probably not anymore) and Kyrie. On the championship front I feel like you can find something to discredit almost any championship won so at that point how many teams are actually deserving.

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20 hours ago, bballshinobi said:

 The team who the tallest, biggest skilled players will win. Trust me, Meyers isn't kicking himself. He's more than happy about what Wiseman has been doing and will become. 

Stop acting like Wiseman is some unicorn of size/skill combo on par with Lebron, KD, AD and Kawhi. He has no skill he cant shoot, pass or dribble at a competent level for the NBA right now. What he does have is the potential to hopefully develop that in the future. If you love size/skill then you should be LaMelo's #1 fan.

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17 minutes ago, XOB said:

Stop acting like Wiseman is some unicorn of size/skill combo on par with Lebron, KD, AD and Kawhi. He has no skill he cant shoot, pass or dribble at a competent level for the NBA right now. What he does have is the potential to hopefully develop that in the future. If you love size/skill then you should be LaMelo's #1 fan.

Doesn't that prove my point that big men take longer to develop? If you watch him you can see he has so much potential. 7'1 big man that can take the ball from basket to basket on his own, can shoot. Warriors don't need him to be some Hakeem type. If he improves on the skillset he already has and becomes an anchor on D then it will be golden for them.

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4 minutes ago, falconish said:

Doesn't that prove my point that big men take longer to develop? If you watch him you can see he has so much potential. 7'1 big man that can take the ball from basket to basket on his own, can shoot. Warriors don't need him to be some Hakeem type. If he improves on the skillset he already has and becomes an anchor on D then it will be golden for them.

If I watch him my eyes start to bleed because of how bad he is but he is so young and raw that he cant be written off yet. The fact that he is not good and LaMelo is good doesn't really prove anything, as everyone has a different development curve regardless of position. I feel like in general point guards take longer to develop than bigs but in order to prove it one way or another you would have to look at years of data to really get to the bottom of it. I hope the best for Wiseman though and I hope he becomes everything the Warriors want him to be as it would be good for the game of basketball.

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9 hours ago, Apollo_87 said:

Wiseman is garbage for fantasy this year.

He’s not going to make any meaningful positive impact in the Warrior’s season. He’s too raw and makes too many mistakes. That’s he won’t get enough minutes cause he’s a walking liability.

He was the best fit for the Warriors at #2. And next season, he’ll be a great late-mid round sleeper in fantasy, and will actually have a meaningful impact.

Also, Lamelo is awesome, but a team with 2 ball handlers already in  the form of Steph and Dray, absolutely does not need another ball handler. Warriors were never going to win the title this year, so it made sense to go for Wiseman.

 

 

lol yes, having more efficient playmakers is always a bad thing on winning teams

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lol if people need an essay to try to excuse Wiseman's disappointing fantasy season you already lost, first of all I ain't reading it and all you gotta do is watch games and you'll see he's just not that good yet and will be a work in progress going forward it's that simple. Kerr knows this that's why he can't even start for them yet or close games for them. Nobody is talking 3-4 years down the line they are talking now. 

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On 3/6/2021 at 5:59 AM, megaplayboy said:

lol if people need an essay to try to excuse Wiseman's disappointing fantasy season you already lost, first of all I ain't reading it and all you gotta do is watch games and you'll see he's just not that good yet and will be a work in progress going forward it's that simple. Kerr knows this that's why he can't even start for them yet or close games for them. Nobody is talking 3-4 years down the line they are talking now. 

lol like you can read

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12 hours ago, zerthimon said:

It's simply not gonna happen this year. Anyone still disagree?

I’d imagine the answer is yes. 

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Thursday was the last straw for me as an owner myself. Can't see how anyone who watches him regularly could hold on hope after that. That was a game for him to show something. What he ended up showing was that even in a game full of scrubs he looked the worst player on the court.

Unless the plan is to tank all of a sudden, I can't see what good comes out of force feeding him minutes.

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if he can stay on the court for 24-26 minutes he can definitely put up decent numbers, good enough to be rostered in deep leagues. if you are expecting him to log heavy minutes and be a top75 player, then by all means, get off the boat, while the rest of us that lowered our expectations can enjoy the ride. 
 

he can easily double-double with a couples of blocks/3s. thats good enough for me seeing how raw he is.

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I just don't see how he can 'easily' double double given how bad he is at rebounding. He needs 36 mins for double digit rebounds to fall into his lap. The rest he fumbles, isn't in position, or tips to a teammate.

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28 minutes ago, zerthimon said:

I just don't see how he can 'easily' double double given how bad he is at rebounding. He needs 36 mins for double digit rebounds to fall into his lap. The rest he fumbles, isn't in position, or tips to a teammate.

Even further than it if he were to play 36 minutes with his current rates he would only average 0.7 threes and 1.9 blocks, so I find it very unlikely that he will put up the stat line that was mentioned. Given the fact the he is a net negative right now, I doubt he approaches even 30 MPG unless the goal is to lose games.

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The way I see it, he's just getting overwhelmed by NBA talent. Basically went from barely playing in College to this level means his fundamentals like rebounding is very behind. Then his wrist injury derailed his learning even more. 

Maybe he can make a turn around after the ASB. He was kinda on a cold streak so a break is welcomed. 

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