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Fred VanVleet 2020-2021 Outlook


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14 hours ago, jay_00 said:

As soon as I trade this man now he wants to go off for good fg% smh. Traded him for Hayward in 1, and currently in process of a trade with CP3 in another. Hard to find takers for his fg% in roto. He's basically a team killer in that cat in most cases.

 

you played yaself 

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47 minutes ago, BykeINIT said:

 

you played yaself 

Kind of, but not entirely. His fg% really is that brutal. I just wish that 1 trade didn't go through until after this game. Him and Sabonis in my other league managed to bring my entire teams fg% up from like .465 to .474 in 1 day. I've never seen such a single day jump before almost 2 months into the season lmao.

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10 minutes ago, jay_00 said:

Kind of, but not entirely. His fg% really is that brutal. I just wish that 1 trade didn't go through until after this game. Him and Sabonis in my other league managed to bring my entire teams fg% up from like .465 to .474 in 1 day. I've never seen such a single day jump before almost 2 months into the season lmao.

I hate tanking fg myself, but I kept him for his Assist Steals and low tos. His Fg for his career is 41% if you're not punting fg and are tight on winable cats you pretty much have to move the guy for someone with similar value 

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37 minutes ago, indigorivers said:

I hate tanking fg myself, but I kept him for his Assist Steals and low tos. His Fg for his career is 41% if you're not punting fg and are tight on winable cats you pretty much have to move the guy for someone with similar value 

Exactly. I was really hoping to get Middleton but the 2 guys in separate leagues wouldn't move him for such low fg%. Although if I waited until after last nights game I bet they would've taken it now which is what really blows.

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4 minutes ago, jay_00 said:

Exactly. I was really hoping to get Middleton but the 2 guys in separate leagues wouldn't move him for such low fg%. Although if I waited until after last nights game I bet they would've taken it now which is what really blows.

Damn man, that would have been nice. Outside of his 9 pointer he was on a pretty nice roll. I was considering those his highs for a moment. Regardless, if the deal works for your team and makes it better that's the best value 

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39 minutes ago, jay_00 said:

Exactly. I was really hoping to get Middleton but the 2 guys in separate leagues wouldn't move him for such low fg%. Although if I waited until after last nights game I bet they would've taken it now which is what really blows.

FVV > Middleton

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I'm going to have to disagree here and we probably wont know until the season ends. 

Middleton has been quietly churning 2nd value stats this season. Vanvleet was no where near this range before last nights game. 

 

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1 hour ago, jrmintz said:

I'm going to have to disagree here and we probably wont know until the season ends. 

Middleton has been quietly churning 2nd value stats this season. Vanvleet was no where near this range before last nights game. 

 

Huh, vanvleet has been top 25 all season. The fg is tough, yeah..but the .7 blks hasn't been mentioned yet.

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1 hour ago, jrmintz said:

I'm going to have to disagree here and we probably wont know until the season ends. 

Middleton has been quietly churning 2nd value stats this season. Vanvleet was no where near this range before last nights game. 

 

If all you care about is %s then middleton will be better, but FVV still gets it on the defensive end every night and at an elite lvl to make up for that. Middleton as good as he is isnt doing that kind of defensive volume on a nightly basis

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If we take away FG%, Vanvleet is definitely giving top 10 value, and I won't argue with that. Great for punt FG% teams. 

But in 9 cat leagues, I'll rather go with Middleton than Vanvleet. Middleton is boring to own but he is consistent and steady. Bucks need him as their #2 option. 

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2 hours ago, hornrimmed_rambis said:

FVV > Middleton

 

49 minutes ago, MikeXScott said:

Huh, vanvleet has been top 25 all season. The fg is tough, yeah..but the .7 blks hasn't been mentioned yet.

I guess you missed the part where I said it was for roto. If this was h2h then yea, but nobody's punting fg% and hoping to win in roto. Is it possible? Yes, but not an easy thing to do. Middleton wouldv'e massively increased my fg% while keeping me strong in assists and increasing my rebs. Yes I would've lose the stocks, but almost all my teams are strong in stocks. I settled for Hayward and CP3 in another league. Not very happy with those deals after last nights performance. I feel like I definitely would have gotten Middleton in both leagues.

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13 minutes ago, jrmintz said:

If we take away FG%, Vanvleet is definitely giving top 10 value, and I won't argue with that. Great for punt FG% teams. 

But in 9 cat leagues, I'll rather go with Middleton than Vanvleet. Middleton is boring to own but he is consistent and steady. Bucks need him as their #2 option. 

Yup, exactly, hes a 9 cat stud. His only weaknesses are stocks. If you Myles and OG already (which I do in most leagues) then it would be easy to make up for while not hurting you anywhere.

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Kinda hard to compare Middleton and FVV in h2h. You want stocks? Then FVV. You want consistent scoring and excellent FG? Then Middleton. Assists are a wash though you can say it’s more valuable with Middleton because they’re out-of-position assists which is a luxury. Really depends on your team build.

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59 minutes ago, jay_00 said:

Yup, exactly, hes a 9 cat stud. His only weaknesses are stocks. If you Myles and OG already (which I do in most leagues) then it would be easy to make up for while not hurting you anywhere.

That's pretty much a non-argument, to compare them while including certain (very specific) builds to compensate for their weaknesses. Pair FVV with Durant and Adebayo or Jaylen Brown, and *poof* gone are his weaknesses. 

 

Fact is that FVV is ranked 13th in per game value and Middleton 20th, in 9-cat without punting anything. So it's awfully close between the two of them. Not just in H2H, but in roto too it's a wash up as far as value goes and just a matter of which one fits your build better.

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57 minutes ago, Simsanityy179 said:

I don’t think the 0.7 blocks are sustainable similar to kyrie’s 0.8 blocks. I expect both of these players blocks to drop to 0.4-0.5 per game 

Definitely sustainable,  van vleet is a fire hydrant, his blocks are mostly based on strength advantage

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1 hour ago, WFK said:

That's pretty much a non-argument, to compare them while including certain (very specific) builds to compensate for their weaknesses. Pair FVV with Durant and Adebayo or Jaylen Brown, and *poof* gone are his weaknesses. 

 

Fact is that FVV is ranked 13th in per game value and Middleton 20th, in 9-cat without punting anything. So it's awfully close between the two of them. Not just in H2H, but in roto too it's a wash up as far as value goes and just a matter of which one fits your build better.

Those very specific builds I actually drafted. Middleton has only 1 real weakness anyway and its blocks. His lack of blocks is definitely not a team killer. Before last night Vanvleet's fg% absolutely was a team killer. You could be in 1st place with 49 fg%, but as soon as you trade for a guy who shoots 40% at FVV's volume, you will drop several points in that category for sure. That's what I did. I traded him to the guy who's in 1st in fg%. I'm in 2nd place in the standings to that guy. We both got equal value but I expect him to drop to 4th in fg% because its a massive drop to go from Hayward to FVV's fg%.

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6 hours ago, jay_00 said:

Those very specific builds I actually drafted. Middleton has only 1 real weakness anyway and its blocks. His lack of blocks is definitely not a team killer. Before last night Vanvleet's fg% absolutely was a team killer. You could be in 1st place with 49 fg%, but as soon as you trade for a guy who shoots 40% at FVV's volume, you will drop several points in that category for sure. That's what I did. I traded him to the guy who's in 1st in fg%. I'm in 2nd place in the standings to that guy. We both got equal value but I expect him to drop to 4th in fg% because its a massive drop to go from Hayward to FVV's fg%.

Yeah I get that it's possible to draft those builds (and well done if you did), but I'm just saying it's not the way to measure a player's value. If you'd pair FVV with Durant and Adebayo like I mentioned your FG would stand at .507; enough to be first in that cat in pretty much every league. So does he hurt you in that cat? Sure, he has negative impact. Do you have to punt FG with him on your team? Far from it. His negative impact on FG is a bit bigger (-1.54) than Middleton's negative impact on blocks (-1.09), but both require you to draft/trade accordingly to compensate for it. 

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5 minutes ago, WFK said:

Yeah I get that it's possible to draft those builds (and well done if you did), but I'm just saying it's not the way to measure a player's value. If you'd pair FVV with Durant and Adebayo like I mentioned your FG would stand at .507; enough to be first in that cat in pretty much every league. So does he hurt you in that cat? Sure, he has negative impact. Do you have to punt FG with him on your team? Far from it. His negative impact on FG is a bit bigger (-1.54) than Middleton's negative impact on blocks (-1.09), but both require you to draft/trade accordingly to compensate for it. 

Drafting Durant was a major risk that if it didn't pan out it could literally ruin your season since you won't have enough to offset FVV fg%. Also FVV's negative fg% value was much, much worse than 1.54 before last nights game. He was literally under 40% and jumped all the way to 42% after 1 game. I already built my team out on BBM before the trade and just by replacing FVV for Hayward my teams fg% will be going from like .467% to one of the league leaders at around nearly .483% That's all from replacing 1 guy lmao. 

I actually built a team around FVV that I expected to do really well in fg%. Unfortunately due to injuries that didn't pan out, so I guess I could have chased after KD after all. However I only play auction leagues and I don't draft players over $35 because I aim for balance. All my teams (except 1) are on pace to finish in the top 3 (with me possibly winning a couple) despite losing Nurkic and other injuries so I say it was the right move.

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