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1 hour ago, Fbaseballgod said:

Just realized I have a topical question.  So say I’m tryna start up a 30 team salary roto league.  (Hypothetically!).   And the roto is 6x6, with the pitching cats being QS/IP/WHIP/ERA/SV+HD/K per 9.

Is it a necessity to institute a innings /minimum/ do you think? IE, would it be feasible to be competitive by just going for RP and tanking 2/12 categories (QS+IP)?  The top 10 teams get in the money to some extent. 

note: not a typical roto player lol

 


In a typical league I don’t think you can tank 2 categories and win but in a 30 teamer with 10 teams in the money, it’s certainly possible to place. If you don’t think a team should be able to place by getting minimal good innings , put in a innings minimum sure. 

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Definition of a Dynasty League is you keep ALL your roster if you wish. Period.  Option "B" is a Dynasty/Contracts Hybrid League.  Option "C" is called a Keeper League and has nothing whatso

In a typical league I don’t think you can tank 2 categories and win but in a 30 teamer with 10 teams in the money, it’s certainly possible to place. If you don’t think a team should be able to place b

I'm going to take this opportunity to pitch "innings pitched" as a stat. I've come to prefer this over wins or QS. Pitchers have a ton of control over their innings. There's also a pretty appropriate

On 12/24/2020 at 9:43 AM, Fbaseballgod said:

Just realized I have a topical question.  So say I’m tryna start up a 30 team salary roto league.  (Hypothetically!).   And the roto is 6x6, with the pitching cats being QS/IP/WHIP/ERA/SV+HD/K per 9.

Is it a necessity to institute a innings /minimum/ do you think? IE, would it be feasible to be competitive by just going for RP and tanking 2/12 categories (QS+IP)?  The top 10 teams get in the money to some extent. 

note: not a typical roto player lol

Roto has a default max innings pitched per season.  Default is around 1600 on most platforms.  You can adjust the number of innings in a private league but I never heard of a league where you could just throw it out.  Also K's is a default category.  In our 6x6 we use that and all of the ones you listed except K/9 using K/BB instead and of course K's instead of innings pitched because IP makes no real sense in roto with that hard cap for the entire season.

If you go under (using the default of 1600 innings) using just "better" pitchers you might get better WHIP and ERA stats but you lose on QS and K's and probably Saves+Holds.  So going for the limit makes sense since the K's keep it honest with most people pushing for the max innings.

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On 12/22/2020 at 11:14 PM, Flyman75 said:


Zero desire for acquisition limits. And it’s not that difficult to max out 1600 ip and have good ratios. 

I should probably clarify that most of the leagues I'm in don't have many appealing streamers on waivers at any point during the year. We really don't even need acquisition limits because good luck finding gold in that pile of garbage. I'm sure there's flaws to IP, but compared to W or QS it seems like a good alternative. 

 

We may be talking about very different types of leagues too. I have no desire to play in leagues where streaming is prevalent, and my main leagues are weekly lineups to further prevent that. 

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Guys...

I'm working on a dynasty league and I can't decide if I want to use...

SV*2+H or SV*3+H

 

I don't think SV+H is good because the equal value of weight on saves and holds is BS to closers IMO. However it's becomming increasingly clear that teams are not relying on dedicated closers and holds must be accounted for with these awesome relievers. What do you think, is a save worth 2 holds or 3 holds? 

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I'm basically a roto purist, but have no problem with roto stats like net stolen bases or even SV+H that try to balance things out. However, once you're fiddling with specific multipliers for component stats that combine to form a single roto stat, I feel like you should consider just going with a points league. 

Bullpen usage trends come and go. Are you going to keep tweaking the multiplier? The imbalance of categories like SV and SB is part of the meta-game that comes with playing in a roto league. I'd rather just lean into it. Saves and holds are both funky, arbitrary, synthetic stats.  Don't try to make them into something they're not.

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2 hours ago, CrypTviLL said:

Guys...

I'm working on a dynasty league and I can't decide if I want to use...

SV*2+H or SV*3+H

 

I don't think SV+H is good because the equal value of weight on saves and holds is BS to closers IMO. However it's becomming increasingly clear that teams are not relying on dedicated closers and holds must be accounted for with these awesome relievers. What do you think, is a save worth 2 holds or 3 holds? 

I think closers and saves are way overrated and holds guys sometimes are the ones coming in with the game on the line aka firemen so I prefer Save+Hold period myself.

And closers already have a heavier weight in the plain Save+Hold since there is usually only one of them per team so they get all the chances while a guy holding may have to split that stat with 2 or 3 other guys thus more points for a closer anyway.

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3 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

I think closers and saves are way overrated and holds guys sometimes are the ones coming in with the game on the line aka firemen so I prefer Save+Hold period myself.

And closers already have a heavier weight in the plain Save+Hold since there is usually only one of them per team so they get all the chances while a guy holding may have to split that stat with 2 or 3 other guys thus more points for a closer anyway.

But there's a possibility of more than 1 hold per game, where only 1 save is given.  Or games where a hold is awarded but no save.  I prefer just plain saves as a roto category. Yes, it's a pain to try to figure out who is going to get each teams saves, but not terribly bad. Middle relievers still have their part, with high K numbers, more innings generally, and help in ERA/WHIP.

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6 hours ago, CrypTviLL said:

Guys...

I'm working on a dynasty league and I can't decide if I want to use...

SV*2+H or SV*3+H

 

I don't think SV+H is good because the equal value of weight on saves and holds is BS to closers IMO. However it's becomming increasingly clear that teams are not relying on dedicated closers and holds must be accounted for with these awesome relievers. What do you think, is a save worth 2 holds or 3 holds? 

I am in a rotisserie league where we use S + Holds but H’s are worth 1/2.... are LM makes adjustments once every2/3 weeks. 

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In 2019 the top 10 relievers in leagues using saves were.

Hader, Yates, Hendricks, Osuna, Vazquez, Workman, Smith, Pagan, Chapman, Rogers

 

If you use S + HLD

Hader, Workman, Yates, Hendricks, Lugo, Petit, Vazquez, Pagan, Osuna, Smith

So 3 different names. Using saves plus holds does suppress the value on any reliever though.  Using Saves Hader was worth, $16. While using Saves plus holds he was worth $13.

 

 

 

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I also think with saves being the scarcist category, it leads to a few more trades. I've made plenty of trades over the years just to pick up a few saves and points in the standings.  Where with saves and holds, there are many more players in the pool getting those stats, so not as needed to trade for that statistic.

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4 hours ago, murraygd13 said:

But there's a possibility of more than 1 hold per game, where only 1 save is given.  Or games where a hold is awarded but no save.  I prefer just plain saves as a roto category. Yes, it's a pain to try to figure out who is going to get each teams saves, but not terribly bad. Middle relievers still have their part, with high K numbers, more innings generally, and help in ERA/WHIP.

Saves alone may be okay in a 10 or 12 man league but pretty impossible in deep leagues where there are only so many to  go around. 

Also more closers get a point than most firemen in general so again it is TOO skewed to closers for me since I am not as impressed with someone coming in for one clean inning versus say the 6th through 8th batters compared to what the late innings hold guys do when the close games are usually for real on the line.

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14 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Saves alone may be okay in a 10 or 12 man league but pretty impossible in deep leagues where there are only so many to  go around. 

Also more closers get a point than most firemen in general so again it is TOO skewed to closers for me since I am not as impressed with someone coming in for one clean inning versus say the 6th through 8th batters compared to what the late innings hold guys do when the close games are usually for real on the line.

Both holds and saves are flawed statistics...I just don't see adding Holds adding that much to the roto game.

 

What about a pitcher who comes in a tie game or with his team behind by only 1 or 2 runs and gets out the middle of the order.  Since he came in the game with his team behind, a hold isn't awarded.  Relief pitcher value is always going to be tough to value correctly in fantasy baseball.  I wouldn't not join a league with Holds/Saves as catergory...personally just don't think it adds much.

My AL and NL only leagues where any save is valuable are interesting, as you need to know the back end of the Royals or Tigers bullpen.  Ian Kennedy led me to a title one year when he got the closer job during the season. 

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2 hours ago, murraygd13 said:

Both holds and saves are flawed statistics...I just don't see adding Holds adding that much to the roto game.

 

And I just don't see the value of just having Saves only.  In my 16 team dynasty leagues that would mean 2 closers tops unless someone hoards them sealing up the whole category.  Too rare in number making each point having way too much value compared to value of a starter so throws the value given starters way WAY out of whack. 

This has always been a problem especially in roto leagues where closers were always gold boys compared to any other pitcher.  Saves+Holds cuts down their way overrated value they had in the old fashioned Saves only leagues and adds a nice and much needed balance to roto leagues as well as h-to-h for that matter.  But the unbalance was most extreme in roto.

Having played with both settings over the years I am all in on Saves+Holds.

In other words we will agree to disagree.  😎

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Got kind of an interesting one.  I LM an ESPN league where we can keep UP TO 3 players.  For those unfamiliar with how ESPN formats that, the first 3 rounds are keepers. Your keepers constitute your 1st, 2nd, then 3rd round picks, depending on how many you keep.  As such, those 3 rounds of picks are not tradable, I guess because we don't actually know if those picks exist until after the keeper deadline (which is one week prior to the draft).  After the keeper deadline, I believe all trading is frozen until after the draft.  

Anyway, 2 owners are discussing basically swapping draft positions.  The guy with the 2nd draft slot is likely keeping 3, and the guy with the 9th slot is keeping just one.  So, it's beneficial for the guy in 9th to move up in the 2nd & 3rd round, whereas it doesn't matter for the guy drafting 2nd, since he's keeping guys in those rounds anyway.  Important to note here, the draft does not snake back until round 5.  The guy drafting from the 9th slot would throw in a pick or two later in the draft to even things out.

Since the keeper round picks are not tradable, the only way I could do this, is to edit the draft order and swap the two.

I've been thinking over this, and I can't tell if that's kind of skirting the rules, or if I'm making too big a deal out of it.

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2 hours ago, 89Topps said:

Got kind of an interesting one.  I LM an ESPN league where we can keep UP TO 3 players.  For those unfamiliar with how ESPN formats that, the first 3 rounds are keepers. Your keepers constitute your 1st, 2nd, then 3rd round picks, depending on how many you keep.  As such, those 3 rounds of picks are not tradable, I guess because we don't actually know if those picks exist until after the keeper deadline (which is one week prior to the draft).  After the keeper deadline, I believe all trading is frozen until after the draft.  

Anyway, 2 owners are discussing basically swapping draft positions.  The guy with the 2nd draft slot is likely keeping 3, and the guy with the 9th slot is keeping just one.  So, it's beneficial for the guy in 9th to move up in the 2nd & 3rd round, whereas it doesn't matter for the guy drafting 2nd, since he's keeping guys in those rounds anyway.  Important to note here, the draft does not snake back until round 5.  The guy drafting from the 9th slot would throw in a pick or two later in the draft to even things out.

Since the keeper round picks are not tradable, the only way I could do this, is to edit the draft order and swap the two.

I've been thinking over this, and I can't tell if that's kind of skirting the rules, or if I'm making too big a deal out of it.

My reading is that these statements are directly contradictory. This, not incidentally, is why you're having trouble getting ESPN to do this without duct taping a convoluted solution together.

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2 hours ago, 89Topps said:

I've been thinking over this, and I can't tell if that's kind of skirting the rules, or if I'm making too big a deal out of it.

If others in your league is fine with this then let it go. 

 

2 hours ago, 89Topps said:

The guy drafting from the 9th slot would throw in a pick or two later in the draft to even things out.

You know this once your roster is full (spots) espn won’t allow an owner to overdraft. Ex 35 roster spots and draft 36 players. 

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Keeper/pseudo dynasty style league that I am in has begun talking on how we will handle COVID IR.  Currently we limit the number of adds a team can make per week to 4.  How are some other leagues handling COVID and the IR?

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1 hour ago, Yonks said:

Keeper/pseudo dynasty style league that I am in has begun talking on how we will handle COVID IR.  Currently we limit the number of adds a team can make per week to 4.  How are some other leagues handling COVID and the IR?

What is the "IR."?

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1 hour ago, Yonks said:

Keeper/pseudo dynasty style league that I am in has begun talking on how we will handle COVID IR.  Currently we limit the number of adds a team can make per week to 4.  How are some other leagues handling COVID and the IR?

As of right now my home league is planning to have unlimited COVID IL spots.  The question I have is how you handle WW priority and what about the players who they don't announce as positive test recipients, as they did that quite a few times last year?

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On 2/11/2021 at 10:38 AM, Hanghow said:

My reading is that these statements are directly contradictory. This, not incidentally, is why you're having trouble getting ESPN to do this without duct taping a convoluted solution together.

Yes, I understand why it isn't doable in the system. I guess my question is; would you have a problem with teams essentially just trading drafts slots?

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58 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

Yes, I understand why it isn't doable in the system. I guess my question is; would you have a problem with teams essentially just trading drafts slots?

I don’t like it personally. 
Team A with the three keepers isnt giving anything up. His team is the exact same with or without the trade. 
This feels a lot like renting a player off your bench to another team for a week (more a questionable thing in FF) 

Also this is exactly trading those picks that you say you haven’t been able to since the league started. 

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If your league doesn’t allow the trading of picks, is it fair game for two owners to agree to trade players and in addition, owner A with earlier draft position chooses the player owner B tells him to pick, and vice versa with owner B’s later pick?

 

It’s essentially trading picks but not really.

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7 hours ago, UberRebel said:

If your league doesn’t allow the trading of picks, is it fair game for two owners to agree to trade players and in addition, owner A with earlier draft position chooses the player owner B tells him to pick, and vice versa with owner B’s later pick?

 

It’s essentially trading picks but not really.

Draft pick trading is allowed. Just the first three rounds are locked.

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