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Ha-Seong Kim 2021 Outlook


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Just to be clear, I own him nowhere except a deep NL only where I took a flyer on him and would be thrilled to get a dozen combined HRs and steals from him, but I suspect anyone who owned him fell victim to the "shiny new toy" mentality. Sometimes even adults need to be told to put away their toys when they aren't helping. 

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25 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

Just to be clear, I own him nowhere except a deep NL only where I took a flyer on him and would be thrilled to get a dozen combined HRs and steals from him, but I suspect anyone who owned him fell victim to the "shiny new toy" mentality. Sometimes even adults need to be told to put away their toys when they aren't helping. 

His ADP was 235.8 which isn't really flyer territory.  The ZiPS projection system had him as a really good fantasy player.  Projection systems are usually pretty conservative.  It probably is more difficult to project a player coming from the KBO but I would say he is underperforming.

 

ZiPS Projection – Ha-seong Kim
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2021 .274 .343 .477 503 80 138 29 2 23 82 51 95 17 117 0 3.8
2022 .273 .344 .482 494 80 135 30 2 23 83 51 97 15 118 0 3.8
2023 .271 .344 .492 490 80 133 30 3 24 83 52 100 16 121 0 3.9
2024 .270 .344 .490 478 78 129 29 2 24 82 52 97 15 120 -1 3.7
2025 .270 .343 .490 467 76 126 28 3 23 80 50 91 15 120 -2 3.5
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42 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

Just to be clear, I own him nowhere except a deep NL only where I took a flyer on him and would be thrilled to get a dozen combined HRs and steals from him, but I suspect anyone who owned him fell victim to the "shiny new toy" mentality. Sometimes even adults need to be told to put away their toys when they aren't helping. 

Didn't mean to come across as argumentative my previous post.  I was just saying his ADP probably was fair.

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Not at all, it's just an Internet conversation, and he's just a clear cut case. I'm sure most early drafters didn't regard him as a flyer but an upside bench ticket. Any player who has yet to prove he's not the guy, in any fantasy sport, has some appeal to a certain type of owner.  You might have been forgiven to hold him to this point, too, after Tatis Jr.'s injury. Its also interesting to compare who he may have been drafted over, I am sure some people took him over McMahon, Hampson or India, overlooking his lack of opportunity, for what is perceived upside. I agree he is better than this, too, but this is commonplace when a hitter doesn't get good run to get in the groove. 

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On 4/18/2021 at 2:49 PM, B&F said:

His ADP was 235.8 which isn't really flyer territory.  The ZiPS projection system had him as a really good fantasy player.  Projection systems are usually pretty conservative.  It probably is more difficult to project a player coming from the KBO but I would say he is underperforming.

 

ZiPS Projection – Ha-seong Kim
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2021 .274 .343 .477 503 80 138 29 2 23 82 51 95 17 117 0 3.8
2022 .273 .344 .482 494 80 135 30 2 23 83 51 97 15 118 0 3.8
2023 .271 .344 .492 490 80 133 30 3 24 83 52 100 16 121 0 3.9
2024 .270 .344 .490 478 78 129 29 2 24 82 52 97 15 120 -1 3.7
2025 .270 .343 .490 467 76 126 28 3 23 80 50 91 15 120 -2 3.5

I think that was also assuming he was actually going to play when they signed him.  But there is clearly no doubt he has no spot over Cronenworth or even Profar

 

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  • 1 month later...

Nasty collision with Pham in the OF yesterday, is he going on the IL? He seemed really shaken up by the play after and was on the ground for a few minutes. He's been playing semi-regularly, not producing much, but a few Hrs and steals here and there. I'm at least hopeful he'll be a productive bench player for them, and not buried on the bench the way the Reds have with Shogo Akiyama. Doubtful he has any real fantasy value to managers in 2021, outside of deep NL only leagues.

As for the play (reposted from the Pham thread) , I'm trying to understand why Tommy Pham is so upset; obviously he was mad that Kim didn't peel off from the fly ball; I'm wondering if its an English language barrier thing, but either way its strange to see this kind of open discord between two players and a coach. We'll never get a real explanation, that stuff is always kept in the clubhouse.

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Just now, Richard Kimble said:

Nasty collision with Pham in the OF yesterday, is he going on the IL? He seemed really shaken up by the play after and was on the ground for a few minutes. He's been playing semi-regularly, not producing much, but a few Hrs and steals here and there. I'm at least hopeful he'll be a productive bench player for them, and not buried on the bench the way the Reds have with Shogo Akiyama. Doubtful he has any real fantasy value to managers in 2021, outside of deep NL only leagues.

As for the play (reposted from the Pham thread) , I'm trying to understand why Tommy Pham is so upset; obviously he was mad that Kim didn't peel off from the fly ball; I'm wondering if its an English language barrier thing, but either way its strange to see this kind of open discord between two players and a coach. We'll never get a real explanation, that stuff is always kept in the clubhouse.

I don't understand Pham's reaction either. These things do happen.  It isn't like Kim trucked him, stood over him, and then walked away without helping him up. They both were down for a while and yeah, be upset it happened, but check on your teammate.  Who gets more pissed walking to the dugout when the other guy is basically being carried off the field?   He also had words with the 3rd base coach in the dugout and I'm curious what was said there.

If you weren't watching the game, there was also a play that inning where a ball dropped in between them for a hit.  This is pretty much the only video I found of it.  Another factor playing into the decision making.

 

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12 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

Nasty collision with Pham in the OF yesterday, is he going on the IL? He seemed really shaken up by the play after and was on the ground for a few minutes. He's been playing semi-regularly, not producing much, but a few Hrs and steals here and there. I'm at least hopeful he'll be a productive bench player for them, and not buried on the bench the way the Reds have with Shogo Akiyama. Doubtful he has any real fantasy value to managers in 2021, outside of deep NL only leagues.

As for the play (reposted from the Pham thread) , I'm trying to understand why Tommy Pham is so upset; obviously he was mad that Kim didn't peel off from the fly ball; I'm wondering if its an English language barrier thing, but either way its strange to see this kind of open discord between two players and a coach. We'll never get a real explanation, that stuff is always kept in the clubhouse.

If he called him off and Kim kept pursuing he's got every right to be PO'd.

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Just now, Sternes said:

there was also a play that inning where a ball dropped in between them for a hit.  This is pretty much the only video I found of it.  Another factor playing into the decision making.

I actually turned it on at the top of that inning, and it was a very bizarre inning indeed. That preceding play probably had a lot to do with the reaction. I'm all for being passionate about the game, but even as a Cubs fan, I didn't care about the double play screwing us out of a big inning there (although i did wonder if the umpire had initially signaled out, which would have made for a real argument, but he never did) because I was mainly concerned about the well being of the players. I guess Pham's owners are happy about the tirade in the sense it showed he wasn't too hurt on the play, besides his wounded pride. 

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I had mini flashbacks to an incident from 2002 involving Mark Bellhorn and Sammy Sosa colliding in the OF at Wrigley. There's no video online, but its a play I'll never forget. These plays are scary to watch as a fan, and as I've been saying, there should be some kind of concussion protocol rule that allows a player to be examined for a collision during the game, without being removed. You would avoid having to make a subjective call; do you care more about your star player or a backup infielder? Unless its game 162 with the playoffs on the line, players shouldn't have to make the call themselves. Plenty will try to "tough it out" and that shouldn't be their decision. Glad the Padres took both out immediately and didn't take a chance. 

Chicago Cubs second baseman Mark Bellhorn (L) and right fielder Sammy Sosa (R) collide while running after a ball hit by Arizona Diamondbacks Damian Miller in the sixth inning in Chicago's Wrigley Field, August 18, 2002. The ball was ruled fair, and Miller rounded the bases unopposed, and was credited with an inside the park home run, as both players went tumbling to the ground. Both returned to the field, but left the game in the seventh inning.  REUTERS/Sue Ogrocki - Stock Photo

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