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2021 Hall of Fame Thread


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17 hours ago, tonycpsu said:

It'd be extremely on-brand for 2020 to give us a HOF class consisting of just Curt Schilling with 2 hours of acceptance speech time to kill.

 

He would go in with Jeter, Walker and the rest of the 2020 class since they didn't have an induction ceremony this year.

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More than you would think unfortunately: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jay-jaffes-2021-hall-of-fame-ballot/ It's a shame we let some butt-hurt newspaper nerds decide the fate of HOF-caliber pr

It’s crazy to me that people still float the argument that if people made a mistake once, that automatically means we should make the mistake in the future.  So what if the character clause failed in

Do you take all memes literally or just Curt Schilling's ? I can't believe I have to ask this.  90% of the social media population would fail the character clause if posting/sending something inapprop

On 12/30/2020 at 7:05 PM, brockpapersizer said:

I am curious what percentage of voters didn't vote him in for that specific reason. What percentage of the overall voters don't think he's good enough based on his career?

More than you would think unfortunately:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jay-jaffes-2021-hall-of-fame-ballot/

It's a shame we let some butt-hurt newspaper nerds decide the fate of HOF-caliber pro athletes. Should Manny Ramirez start being a judge about who gets a Pulitzer? So now athletes have to play "office politics" with journalists? I get it, Schilling is a loudmouth and you may not like what he says, but the dude should be in the HOF no doubt. Once again, I only care about the stats.

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How many Cy Young Awards did Butt hurt Curt end up with? In 20 years...he was in what...6 All Star games? Good pitcher...not great, IMO. I’m on the “Hope he never makes it to the HOF” bandwagon.

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43 minutes ago, bluntbros said:

How many Cy Young Awards did Butt hurt Curt end up with? In 20 years...he was in what...6 All Star games? Good pitcher...not great, IMO. I’m on the “Hope he never makes it to the HOF” bandwagon.

0 CY's but he came in runner-up three times. Lost to Pedro once and Randy Johnson twice. Schilling has  79.8  career WAR, that's more than most pitchers already in the HOF. PLUS his historic playoff appearances. I took a blurb from CBS:

"Schilling's postseason record is as good as it gets. He went 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA and a 0.97 WHIP in 19 starts and 133 1/3 career playoff innings. Schilling won three World Series rings (2001 D-Backs, 2004 and 2007 Red Sox) and was named MVP of the 1993 NLCS and co-MVP of the 2001 World Series with Randy Johnson."

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Yeah... i'd agree Schilling should be in based on stats

I guess the argument would have to be if there is a moral code to be placed in the hall of fame, which, if there is -- he'd fail. 

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I've always felt people know who the great players are and do not need sports writers taking a vote every year to decide for us.  If they need to debate and dissect stats,  then the players are probably just really good players.  Is it interesting and good for baseball.  Sure.

Most sports writers are opinionated blow hards who think they are more important than they are,  and voting on candidates only validates that thinking.

Bonds and Clemons were great players who cheated and took steriods.   Probably much more wide spread usage than confirmed cases.  Pete Rose was the all time hits leader who gambled but never threw a game that's been confirmed.   Shoeless Joe was another great player.    Who cares if the sports writers or a few old timers deem them worthy of their vote.  The building is a museum which should tell the whole story,  good and bad.  To many mediocre players are getting in anyway.

 

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On 12/31/2020 at 11:49 PM, Ecofolux said:

More than you would think unfortunately:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jay-jaffes-2021-hall-of-fame-ballot/

It's a shame we let some butt-hurt newspaper nerds decide the fate of HOF-caliber pro athletes. Should Manny Ramirez start being a judge about who gets a Pulitzer? So now athletes have to play "office politics" with journalists? I get it, Schilling is a loudmouth and you may not like what he says, but the dude should be in the HOF no doubt. Once again, I only care about the stats.


I think it’s weird how people who think schilling should be in the hall of fame typically say “I only care about the stats” as some type of argument. Like, yeah, if it was only stats based, obviously schilling would get in. Nobody is arguing that.  But the fact of the matter is that there’s a character clause explicitly in the requirements, and ignoring the clause for ?? reasons is odd to me.   While if I was a writer I wouldn’t vote for any of the dubious character (Schilling for his hate speech, Bonds domestic abuse allegations, Clemens relationship with minors allegation, etc), I also respect Jay Jaffe’s logic.  I think it makes perfect sense that electing schilling gives him a platform in which would allow him to spew more harm.  Giving Bonds a platform would not allow him to do more domestic violence, for example.  

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2 hours ago, Fbaseballgod said:

I think it’s weird how people who think schilling should be in the hall of fame typically say “I only care about the stats” as some type of argument. Like, yeah, if it was only stats based, obviously schilling would get in. Nobody is arguing that.  But the fact of the matter is that there’s a character clause explicitly in the requirements, and ignoring the clause for ?? reasons is odd to me.   While if I was a writer I wouldn’t vote for any of the dubious character (Schilling for his hate speech, Bonds domestic abuse allegations, Clemens relationship with minors allegation, etc), I also respect Jay Jaffe’s logic.  I think it makes perfect sense that electing schilling gives him a platform in which would allow him to spew more harm.  Giving Bonds a platform would not allow him to do more domestic violence, for example.

 

Arbitrary feelings should not impact the history of baseball. I think Buster Olney said it best:

 

Don't even get me started on this David Skretta fool!

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If character and integrity were big factors, ruth and cobb wouldnt be in

What pitcher do I want throwing game 7 for my team

Gibson, koufax, or schilling

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6 hours ago, Ecofolux said:

 

Arbitrary feelings should not impact the history of baseball. I think Buster Olney said it best:

 

Don't even get me started on this David Skretta fool!


The entire process is subjective.  And it’s not impacting the history of baseball, only whether you are bestowing an honor on people.  Are you saying to just ignore the character clause altogether? If so, what’s the point of guidelines if they can just be ignored at will?

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19 minutes ago, Fbaseballgod said:

 Are you saying to just ignore the character clause altogether? If so, what’s the point of guidelines if they can just be ignored at will?

Guidelines?

What guidelines? Show me those?

Is being a alcoholic good character?During prohibition no less?

How about having a whore orgy?

Usung corked or laminated bats?

Admitting in your autobiography you experimented with peds?

Admitted you threw spitballs in your book?

Being married with naked whores in your room?

The HOF has all the above in it

 

 

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3 hours ago, HOOTIE said:

Is being a alcoholic good character?

How about having a whore orgy?

Admitted you threw spitballs in your book?

Being married with naked whores in your room?

 

Ah... college. Good times.

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3 hours ago, HOOTIE said:

Guidelines?

What guidelines? Show me those?

Is being a alcoholic good character?During prohibition no less?

How about having a whore orgy?

Usung corked or laminated bats?

Admitting in your autobiography you experimented with peds?

Admitted you threw spitballs in your book?

Being married with naked whores in your room?

The HOF has all the above in it

 

 


I mean...

 

1) the entire process is subjective so I obviously can’t give a clear cut answer for all of these.  But for some people I think it’s fairly clear cut what’s not good moral character (Ie domestic violence)

2) just because terrible people got admitted to the Hall in the past, dosent mean we have to repeat the same mistakes again 

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4 minutes ago, Fbaseballgod said:


I mean...

 

1) the entire process is subjective so I obviously can’t give a clear cut answer for all of these.  But for some people I think it’s fairly clear cut what’s not good moral character (Ie domestic violence)

2) just because terrible people got admitted to the Hall in the past, dosent mean we have to repeat the same mistakes again 

Exactly, it isn’t the job of baseball writers to go back and look at every person in the HOF, they just apply the rules and voting criteria to the players on the their ballot. 

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7 hours ago, Football Enthusiast said:

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
 

I copied this from the BBWAA Hall of Fame election rules page.

 

Appears to be for players, not if they hurt someone’s feelings on the internet after retiring.

Either way, I love those who vote for Clemens, not Schilling. Kinda telling on themselves when they won’t vote for scumbag Curt, but will vote for Roger, who had an affair with a 15 year-old when he was 28. Statutory rape- ok. Yikes. 

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14 hours ago, Football Enthusiast said:

Exactly, it isn’t the job of baseball writers to go back and look at every person in the HOF, they just apply the rules and voting criteria to the players on the their ballot. 

Maybe

But there is word for it

HYPOCRISY 

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On 1/3/2021 at 3:35 PM, CrypTviLL said:

Yeah... i'd agree Schilling should be in based on stats

I guess the argument would have to be if there is a moral code to be placed in the hall of fame, which, if there is -- he'd fail. 

 

On 1/5/2021 at 9:08 AM, Football Enthusiast said:

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
 

I copied this from the BBWAA Hall of Fame election rules page.

 

Have his teammates or coaches spoken out against him ?  Have they called him immoral or lacking in sportsmanship or character ?  I could care less what bloggers and twitter thinks of him. If his teammates and coaches respected him that's good enough for me. He's gonna get in through the veterans committee anyway. 

 

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42 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

 

Have his teammates or coaches spoken out against him ?  Have they called him immoral or lacking in sportsmanship or character ?  I could care less what bloggers and twitter thinks of him. If his teammates and coaches respected him that's good enough for me. He's gonna get in through the veterans committee anyway. 

 

If you're so sure of that why not let them decide.

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On 1/5/2021 at 12:04 PM, Dylanfan66 said:

No one this year hopefully..

Why?

There's more then 10 guys who should be in easy.

 

 

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8 hours ago, fletch44 said:

 

Have his teammates or coaches spoken out against him ?  Have they called him immoral or lacking in sportsmanship or character ?  I could care less what bloggers and twitter thinks of him. If his teammates and coaches respected him that's good enough for me. He's gonna get in through the veterans committee anyway. 

 

This makes no sense.  So the worst person in the world could be up for nomination, but just because their teammates think he’s a bro you’d just disregard that?  I mean beyond the surface level problems with that, what if someone did something heinous after baseball (or was discovered after they retire)?

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8 hours ago, Fbaseballgod said:

This makes no sense.  So the worst person in the world could be up for nomination, but just because their teammates think he’s a bro you’d just disregard that?  I mean beyond the surface level problems with that, what if someone did something heinous after baseball (or was discovered after they retire)?

I'm pretty sure teammates and coaches would be speaking out about "the worst person in the world".  If you think so lowly of baseball players that they'd give someone so heinous a pass, why do you even watch ?

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