Jump to content
NBC Sports Edge Forums

2021 Hall of Fame Thread


Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

Do you take all memes literally or just Curt Schilling's ? I can't believe I have to ask this.  90% of the social media population would fail the character clause if posting/sending something inappropriate was below the bar. Can we do better than twitter memes to judge someone's character ?

 

Social Media is one of the most influential mediums in today's world. What is offered there carries tons of weight, tons of influence. What is shared on social media should be held for or against those who use it. That so many using social media would fail the character clause does not excuse it. IMO.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 120
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

More than you would think unfortunately: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jay-jaffes-2021-hall-of-fame-ballot/ It's a shame we let some butt-hurt newspaper nerds decide the fate of HOF-caliber pr

It’s crazy to me that people still float the argument that if people made a mistake once, that automatically means we should make the mistake in the future.  So what if the character clause failed in

Do you take all memes literally or just Curt Schilling's ? I can't believe I have to ask this.  90% of the social media population would fail the character clause if posting/sending something inapprop

4 hours ago, shakestreet said:

...Just remember there is a rule in place.  I see two words that steroid users have no chance to enter the Hall. They are integrity & character. Those two words will keep them out ... 
 

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

If anyone knows any history, integrity and character were dismissed when Ruth and Cobb got in.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob Parker of FS1, who has a vote, explained why Curt is not a HOFamer.

His reasoning, explains why there are so many dopey votes.

Curt never won a CY YOUNG.

Ok, so.

He finished 2nd 3 times.

RJ had 3 incredible years to beat him out. In 2004, Clemens had a 5.4 war and won. Curt had a 8.4 war.

Case in point. Writers screw up the MVP and CY often.

Rob then went to lament, how he never had 300 wins like Ryan.

Hey Rob, news flash.

Ryan lost almost 300.

And he never win a CY.

Writers come up with crazy criteria, then stick their foot in their mouth, with their next sentence.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, HOOTIE said:

If anyone knows any history, integrity and character were dismissed when Ruth and Cobb got in.

 

It’s crazy to me that people still float the argument that if people made a mistake once, that automatically means we should make the mistake in the future.  So what if the character clause failed in the past? Why does that mean we should ignore it now? Is consistency (?) more importantly, or actually making good decisions?   

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, colorado2013 said:

 

Social Media is one of the most influential mediums in today's world. What is offered there carries tons of weight, tons of influence. What is shared on social media should be held for or against those who use it. That so many using social media would fail the character clause does not excuse it. IMO.

My problem is making characters judgments on someone based on literal interpretations of the memes they post. That seems like an exercise in madness. You don't know someones character because you saw a meme they posted. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, shakestreet said:

Isn’t that just your opinion? I don’t remember any of those names were actually grouped in that category of steroid users. There was just talk like most ball players in that era. 

Plenty of anecdotal evidence. Just look at the bodies of Bagwell and Bigiio during the early years and then compare them to when they played with Caminitti and were at their best. Pudge was outed by Canseco and plenty of stories about Piazza as well. I just think if you already let in a few questionable players already, let them all in.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, HOOTIE said:

Rob Parker of FS1, who has a vote, explained why Curt is not a HOFamer.

His reasoning, explains why there are so many dopey votes.

Curt never won a CY YOUNG.

Ok, so.

He finished 2nd 3 times.

RJ had 3 incredible years to beat him out. In 2004, Clemens had a 5.4 war and won. Curt had a 8.4 war.

Case in point. Writers screw up the MVP and CY often.

Rob then went to lament, how he never had 300 wins like Ryan.

Hey Rob, news flash.

Ryan lost almost 300.

And he never win a CY.

Writers come up with crazy criteria, then stick their foot in their mouth, with their next sentence.

Schilling was a great pitcher and really should be in the Hall, but he ain’t because of Rhode Island. Simple why are we not seeing that?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

Plenty of anecdotal evidence. Just look at the bodies of Bagwell and Bigiio during the early years and then compare them to when they played with Caminitti and were at their best. Pudge was outed by Canseco and plenty of stories about Piazza as well. I just think if you already let in a few questionable players already, let them all in.

A lot of NFL players lose a LOT of weight after they retire because they don't need to have the extra weight and don't need to work out so much. Maybe they did use something. Who knows. But if you want to look at the size of a players body the size of Bonds head is a better example.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking deeper into Curt Schilling you can understand why voters didn’t vote for him. Another guy who should keep away from social media. 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/01/28/hall-of-fame-voting-rules-curt-schilling/

Schilling has promoted transphobic thoughts via social media, a transgression that was the final straw in his firing by ESPN. Given a platform by right-wing media outlet Breitbart, he hosted a podcast in which he welcomed a congressional candidate who endorsed White supremacy. He promoted a photo of a man wearing a T-shirt that read “Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required” by tweeting, “Ok, so much awesome here …” He accepted a $75 million loan from the state of Rhode Island to bring his gaming business — then defaulted on the loan, ultimately filing for bankruptcy and agreeing to repay the state $61 million. On and on. 
And after the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, he tweeted support for the rioters, saying in part, “sit back [shut up] and watch folks start a confrontation for [stuff] that matters like rights, democracy and the end of [government] corruption.”

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As some others have mentioned, Ty Cobb was a huge ahole as well.  But unlike Schilling he had the good sense to go away.

I think that's the problem with our society today.  Not enough recluses.

Edited by JE7HorseGod
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

As some others have mentioned, Ty Cobb was a huge ahole as well.  But unlike Schilling he had the good sense to go away.

I think that's the problem with our society today.  Not enough recluses.

We encourage it with the outrage BS. Curt Schilling has 0 impact on my life, yet I hear about him ALL OF THE TIME, just because he's an a**hole. I don't see his tweets; I don't watch his interviews; I don't listen to his podcast, but online baseball fans make sure to relay to me whatever stupid thing he's said.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/27/2021 at 6:55 AM, fletch44 said:

Schilling has the 2nd highest WAR of any pitcher not in the HOF behind only Clemens and he's ahead of guys like Carl Hubbell, Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax, Justin Verlander, Bob Feller, Jim Palmer, Juan Marcial. That's not even touching his post-season accolades.

Being a donkey should not preclude someone from being in the HOF. 

Things I would do to fix the HOF voting.

1) Have both the veterans committee and media vote every year. If you get 75% from either one, you're in. We have all seen some of the ridiculous ballots submitted by media members. I think this would put pressure on each group to "get it right". It'll looks bad if one group votes 80% and another 50% for the same guy.

2) Make all votes public. If you don't have the courage to show your vote, you shouldn't be voting.

 

As silly as some of the writers are, the committees are worse. At least the writers, rightly didn't induct Harold Baines or Jack Morris.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, HOOTIE said:

If anyone knows any history, integrity and character were dismissed when Ruth and Cobb got in.

 

I'd like to think we've evolved as thinkers since the 1930s.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Fbaseballgod said:

It’s crazy to me that people still float the argument that if people made a mistake once, that automatically means we should make the mistake in the future.  So what if the character clause failed in the past? Why does that mean we should ignore it now? Is consistency (?) more importantly, or actually making good decisions?   

Not only that, but a mistake from 85 years ago.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to mention... we don't know anywhere near as much about Cobb's character as we know about Schilling's.  Cobb was already in the Hof, and DEAD, before a lot of the rumors about him being a dick originated from one man who stood to profit financially off of potentially making up rumors about Cobb.  Many, including Ted Williams, disputed a lot of what that one man had to write.

This thread makes for an interesting read on the sufject.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as the "they're just memes Schilling is reposting" argument:  If you post racist memes you are a racist, if you post transphobic memes you are a transphobe, etc. etc.  He has straight up told us who he is, repeatedly.  A piss-poor character who should not be celebrated.  

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

As silly as some of the writers are, the committees are worse. At least the writers, rightly didn't induct Harold Baines or Jack Morris.

Agreed, there are problems with both groups. That's why I would like to see more of a joint approach where both voter pools vote every year. This and making all votes public would be steps towards holding each group accountable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

I'd like to think we've evolved as thinkers since the 1930s.

That's the thing, the behavior of the guys that might've been racist almost a century ago wasn't considered as objectionable back then as the behavior of Schilling today.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, dan said:

A lot of NFL players lose a LOT of weight after they retire because they don't need to have the extra weight and don't need to work out so much. Maybe they did use something. Who knows. But if you want to look at the size of a players body the size of Bonds head is a better example.

I don't dispute Bonds being a roid user. Your example of NFL players losing weight isn't a good comparison. Losing weighr vs muscle mas is very different. It's about muscle mass. Bagwell and Biggio look about half the size of when they played. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/28/2021 at 10:28 AM, Hanghow said:

We encourage it with the outrage BS. Curt Schilling has 0 impact on my life, yet I hear about him ALL OF THE TIME, just because he's an a**hole. I don't see his tweets; I don't watch his interviews; I don't listen to his podcast, but online baseball fans make sure to relay to me whatever stupid thing he's said.

That's true.  Cobb was an interesting movie but that was about all I needed to hear in the subject, similarly I'm well passed my limit on interest in Schilling.  I'm all for a movement to discourage assholes back into reclusiveness, if there's a petition I'll sign it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My 2 cents on the thing, ignoring whether or not he should be in because I haven't taken a deep dive on the numbers, is that they should be judging the guy for ON the field stuff.  I really don't care about off the field.  This whole thing seems like a vendetta because they think they have the moral high ground and have an axe to grind. It rubs me the wrong way like it does with TO in NFL HOF.  TO should have been a 1st ballot HOF no contest.  Instead the media guys got back at him because of "off the field" and "locker room" angles.  A bunch of butthurt pricks getting their petty payback and in the end he skipped the HOF enshrinement to get the last laugh. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...