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27 minutes ago, Jteepe said:

I was thinking that Royce Lewis, Alex Kiriloff, Andrew Vaughn, Spencer Howard were for sure four of the open spots in the top 30, guessing Kopech is the other

Nothing against you, Jteepe.  This rant is all about these so-called "prospect sites.  Despite silly "rookie rules" on these prospect sites the fact is that Spencer Howard is a major leaguer and not a prospect anymore.  Same thing goes for a number of people cited by the original poster.  Especially Ian Anderson who no way in hell is he a "prospect."  Nor Ke'Bryan Hayes, Daulton Varsho, Ryan Mountcastle, Bobby Dalbec, Jazz Chisholm etc etc etc.

I get so so VERY tired of these "prospect" sites using "rookie" legalisms when they know in fact so many of these guys are no longer prospects thus making their top 100 lists more like top 80 or so.  Use some basic COMMON SENSE.  Yoda sez: "Lazy and pathetic they are."

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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3 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Nothing against you, Jteepe.  This rant is all about these so-called "prospect sites.  Despite silly "rookie rules" on these prospect sites the fact is that Spencer Howard is a major leaguer and not a prospect anymore.  Same thing goes for a number of people cited by the original poster.  Especially Ian Anderson who no way in hell is he a "prospect."  Nor Ke'Bryan Hayes, Daulton Varsho, Ryan Mountcastle, Bobby Dalbec, Jazz Chisholm etc etc etc.

I get so so VERY tired of these "prospect" sites using "rookie" legalisms when they know in fact so many of these guys are no longer prospects thus making their top 100 lists more like top 80 or so.  Use some basic COMMON SENSE.  Yoda sez: "Lazy and pathetic they are."

I'm curious, where would you draw the line? 5 ip or 10 ab? 

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5 hours ago, dan said:

I'm curious, where would you draw the line? 5 ip or 10 ab? 

 

Well in this case all the names he mentioned, at least at a glance, are expected to be in the starting lineup on their MLB team.  That sort of takes away from them being prospects (aside from technicalities) when we know they have already been called up.

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18 hours ago, dan said:

I'm curious, where would you draw the line? 5 ip or 10 ab? 

What Sternes said.  You know when a player is up to stay or not.  You don't use legalist and artificial stat "parameters."  You use something else.  Again, it is called COMMON SENSE.

These sites are suppose to be ranking true prospects.  You know, ones still playing in the minors.  The whole ranking system looks silly when you throw in tons of major league players.

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So, if a player has had ANY time in the majors and/or "are expected to be in the starting lineup on their MLB team" than they shouldn't be considered prospects. 

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47 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

What Sternes said.  You know when a player is up to stay or not.  You don't use legalist and artificial stat "parameters."  You use something else.  Again, it is called COMMON SENSE.

These sites are suppose to be ranking true prospects.  You know, ones still playing in the minors.  The whole ranking system looks silly when you throw in tons of major league players.

But then the list because too subjective and each source is likely to have different names involved. My opinion is there should be some sort of established perimeters, not just randomly up to the source.

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1 hour ago, ThreadKiller said:

But then the list because too subjective and each source is likely to have different names involved. My opinion is there should be some sort of established perimeters, not just randomly up to the source.

It is randomly up to the source right now in that a few sites do use common sense and don't include the Ian Andersons on their lists.  Some wouldn't include him but would incluse Spencer Howard.  Some wouldn't include either of them since they are in the starting rotations but still include Luis Patino. 

There is absolutely no reason to think there will ever be a "standard" between various baseball fantasy sites on this any more than on their opinions of seeding in their rankings.  These are just sites set up by some guy or guys who have self-deemed themselves "experts."  They aren't in some professional organization that make up rules for themselves together.

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On 1/20/2021 at 8:04 AM, Jteepe said:

I was able to piece together the following for Baseball America's top 100 by reading local lists for each team. Couldn't find one for the White Sox, Astros, Rockies, Phillies, and Twins

1-Wander Franco    TBR    SS
2-Adley Rutschman    BAL    C
3-Julio Rodriguez    SEA    OF
4-Jarred Kelenic    SEA    OF
5-Spencer Torkleson    DET    1B
6-Sixto Sanchez    MIA    SP
7-Christian Pache    ATL    OF
8-Ian Anderson    ATL    SP
9-Dylan Carlson    STL    OF
10-Mackenzie Gore    SDP    SP
11-CJ Abrams    SDP    SS
12-Marco Luciano    SFG    SS
13-Joe Adell    LAA    OF
14-Nate Pearson    TOR    SP
15-KeBryan Hayes    PIT    3B
16-Bobby Witt Jr    KCR    SS
17-Randy Arozarena    TBR    OF
18-  Alex Kirilloff     MIN   OF     
19-Austin Martin    TOR    SS/3B
20-Tarik Skubal    DET    SP
21-  Amdrew Vaughn  CHW   1B    
22-Grayson Rodriguez    BAL    SP
23-Luis Patino    TBR    SP
24-  Michael Kopech    CHW    SP     
25-Daniel Lynch    KCR    SP
26-Triston McKenzie    CLE    SP
27- Spencer Howard    PHI   SP      
28-Casey Mize    DET    SP
29-  Royce Lewis  MIN   SS     
30-Matt Manning    DET    SP
31-Riley Greene    DET    OF
32-Drew Waters    ATL    OF
33-Jasson Dominguez    NYY    OF
34-Jordan Groshans    TOR    SS
35-Logan Gilbert    SEA    SP
36-Luis Camusano    SDP    C
37-Asa Lacy    KCR    SP
38-Brandon Marsh    LAA    OF
 39- Trevor Larnach   MIN   OF    
40-  Nick Madrigal    CHW  2B     
41-Joey Bart    SFG    C
42-Corbin Carroll    ARZ    OF
43-JJ Bleday    MIA    OF
44-Max Meyer    MIA    SP
45-Nolan Jones    CLE    3B
46-Matthew Liberatore    STL    SP
47-Triston Casas    BOS    1B
48-Francisco Alvarez    NYM    C
49-Josh Jung    TEX    3B
50-Oneil Cruz    PIT    SS
51-Nick Gonzales    PIT    2B
52-Brailyn Marquez    CHC    SP
53-Keibert Ruiz    LAD    C
54-Nolan Gorman    STL    3B
55-Deivi Garcia    NYY    SP
56-Vidal Brujan    TBR    2B
57-Emerson Hancock    SEA    SP
58-Quinn Priester    PIT    SP
59-DL Hall    BAL    SP
60- Ryan Jeffers   MIN  C      
61-  Brendan Rodgers   COL   SS  
62-Heston Kjerstad    BAL    OF
63-Ryan Mountcastle    BAL    OF
64-Clarke Schmidt    NYY    SP
65-Ronny Mauricio     NYM    SS
66-Andres Gimenez    CLE    SS
67-Daulton Varsho    ARZ    C/OF
68-Josiah Gray    LAD    SP
69-Simeon Woods Richardson    TOR    SP
70-Alejandro Kirk    TOR    C 
71-Jeter Downs    BOS    2b/SS
72-Brennan Davis    CHC    OF
73-Noelvi Marte    SEA    SS
74-  Garrett Crochet   CHW  SP    
75-Luis Perdomo    ARZ    SS
76-Adrian Morejon    SDP    SP
77-Jazz Chisholm    MIA    SS
78-Ha-Seong Kim    SDP    2B
79-  Jose Garcia    CIN     SS     
80-  Forrest Whitley  HOU  SP      
81-Edward Cabrera    MIA    SP
82-Tyler Freeman    CLE    SS
83-Heliot Ramos    SFG    OF
84-Ryan Weathers    SDP    SP
85-Robert Hassell III    SDP    OF
86-  Zac Veen         COL      OF     
87-Michael Busch    LAD    2B
88-Brice Turang    MIL    SS
89-Trevor Rogers    MIA    SP
90-Bobby Dalbec    BOS    1B/3B
91-Garrett Mitchell    MIL    OF
92-Tommy Soderstrom    OAK    C
93-Kristian Robinson    ARZ    OF
94-Alec Thomsas    ARZ    OF
95-Jackson Kowar    KCR    SP
96-  Orelvis Martinez    TOR  3B    
97-   Austin Hendrick    CIN   OF    
98-Matt Allan    NYM    SP
99-   Mick Abel   PHI     SP    
100-Shane McClanahan    TBR    SP
 

I know that Orelvis Marte, SS TOR comes in somewhere after #70, but the article i read didn't specify his exact spot

Same goes for Reds prospects Jose Garcia, SS and Austin Hendricks, OF who both slot in somewhere after #75

I was also able to find out that the Washington Nationals have zero prospects on the list

 

Filled in the gaps with the missing players in bold to complete the list

Edited by Blood Brother
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4 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

There is absolutely no reason to think there will ever be a "standard" between various baseball fantasy sites on this any more than on their opinions of seeding in their rankings.  These are just sites set up by some guy or guys who have self-deemed themselves "experts."  They aren't in some professional organization that make up rules for themselves together.

This sounds an awful lot like MLB; I feel like we're coming full circle.

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9 hours ago, dan said:

So, if a player has had ANY time in the majors and/or "are expected to be in the starting lineup on their MLB team" than they shouldn't be considered prospects. 

 

8 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

But then the list because too subjective and each source is likely to have different names involved. My opinion is there should be some sort of established perimeters, not just randomly up to the source.

 

I agree with both these points as well.  I'd be fine with some sort of cutoff.  I do also agree with BBT on this one; that the lists smack of laziness.  Take my Tigers for instance.  Who considers Mize and Skubal prospects?  They were in the rotation last year.  They got the 3rd and 4th most innings of any starters.  Their positions are not being challenged by FA or other prospects in minors coming up.  They are expected to start the season in the rotation.  Yes, "technically" they are still in the minors in my fantasy league.  If I was paying for or thumbing through a magazine at a store and saw those guys on the pages I'd want my money back or put it down.  What possible insight are these guys providing me with my money when I can read the list and know 10 of them are already in the majors permanently?  I'm not even an avid prospects guy.

Manning on the other hand hasn't been called up. He is expected to start in the minors AFAIK, should eventually be called up this year at some point even if it is just for coffee, and should be on the list.

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On 1/22/2021 at 8:11 AM, dan said:

So, if a player has had ANY time in the majors and/or "are expected to be in the starting lineup on their MLB team" than they shouldn't be considered prospects. 

Except that most fantasy leagues do minor league drafts based upon rookie eligibility so these lists are pretty valuable for that

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12 hours ago, HOOTIE said:

I know BA is the granddaddy of prospect lists.

But I think they are the worst.

Robinson at 93rd says it all

They still rank players based on 2015 strategies. They haven't even discovered exit velocities yet lol

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2 hours ago, LHugstad said:

They still rank players based on 2015 strategies. They haven't even discovered exit velocities yet lol

Baseball America refers to exit velocity and other emerging metrics frequently. What are these 2015 strategeries?  

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8 minutes ago, tucker26 said:

Baseball America refers to exit velocity and other emerging metrics frequently. What are these 2015 strategeries?  

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think BA focuses on real life baseball including defensive metrics versus the offensively driven stats that the vast majority of us are seeking. 

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2 hours ago, dan said:

Seriously, why ARE they so down on KRob?

whether they are aware of this or not, some reports are that KRob had a very rough 2020 and the hit tool is probably getting exposed, as well as speed down as he bulks up. i dont know if thats a reason to end up almost outside top 100 but some of the shine is off

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19 hours ago, Shamrocks said:

Except that most fantasy leagues do minor league drafts based upon rookie eligibility so these lists are pretty valuable for that

Most?  You know that how?  I seriously doubt you have any stats to back that up.  Maybe yours do but my three dynasty leagues don't use MLB "rookie" eligibility rules at all.  And platforms don't have current major leaguers that MLB would use the "rookie" definition (so so very outdated) sitting with an NA next to their name or whatever that platform uses for non-active roster players.

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7 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Most?  You know that how?  I seriously doubt you have any stats to back that up.  Maybe yours do but my three dynasty leagues don't use MLB "rookie" eligibility rules at all.  And platforms don't have current major leaguers that MLB would use the "rookie" definition (so so very outdated) sitting with an NA next to their name or whatever that platform uses for non-active roster players.

Good point. My experience in multiple dynasty leagues is that there is value in declaring rookie eligibility, MLB does it, Fantrax and CBS both have designations for who can be in the minors ("rookie-eligible").

Im not sure why you would have separate MLB/MILB drafts and rosters if there was no distinction, I guess thats my point. There is value in ranking rookies based upon the way MLB classifies them (i.e. who is still ROY-eligible) depending on if thats how your league classifies them, but I was wrong to state that most leagues operate that way, and for that, I apologize.

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16 hours ago, Shamrocks said:

whether they are aware of this or not, some reports are that KRob had a very rough 2020 and the hit tool is probably getting exposed, as well as speed down as he bulks up. i dont know if thats a reason to end up almost outside top 100 but some of the shine is off

FWIW, Rotowire has the opposite take, says he has worked hard to not bulk up and has him #15. FYI

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4 hours ago, Shamrocks said:

Good point. My experience in multiple dynasty leagues is that there is value in declaring rookie eligibility, MLB does it, Fantrax and CBS both have designations for who can be in the minors ("rookie-eligible").

Im not sure why you would have separate MLB/MILB drafts and rosters if there was no distinction, I guess thats my point. There is value in ranking rookies based upon the way MLB classifies them (i.e. who is still ROY-eligible) depending on if thats how your league classifies them, but I was wrong to state that most leagues operate that way, and for that, I apologize.

No problem.  We all play in different formats and different platforms.  Yahoo has someone in the "minors" via NA (not active).  And that is it.  Unfortunately they shoot themselves in the foot by having the "NA" slots disappear when leagues re-open which leads all dynasty and most all deeper keepers to have to do "by hand" drafts which usually include multiple lists and spreadsheets and even sometimes websites to handle all this so owners can keep their prospects.  Fun fun fun.

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