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2021 QB Madness


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Could be nothing, but...

Speaking in a Tuesday video conference, Russell Wilson said "I'm frustrated with getting hit too much." 

"I've been sacked almost 400 times," Wilson said. "So we've got to get better. I've got to find ways to get better too." The "I'm frustrated with getting hit too much" response came when Wilson asked if he was "frustrated with the Seahawks." This isn't the first time Wilson has dabbled in public criticism of the franchise, but it is the most severe and direct. Wilson's words come the same day he told Dan Patrick "that's a Seahawks question" when asked if he was on the trade block. By every indication, teams have contacted the Seahawks about Wilson and they've said "no way." Wilson has not requested a trade. Wilson should be back with the only team he's ever known in 2021, but he is finally boiling over about the team's decade-long underinvestment in its offensive line. Naturally, the Seahawks lack a first-round pick following the acquisition of Jamal Adams last summer. 

Feb 9, 2021, 2:21 PM ET

 

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3 hours ago, BrianM said:

Probably just a case of "Hey, Tom Brady got basically whatever he wanted this year, time for me to get a tiny bit selfish"

 

Being sacked close to 400 times and venting your frustration about it is being selfish?

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Just posted an update from the main NBC Sports page (weird, not saying Rotoworld) re; Wentz. To paraphrase, apparently teams are balking at the current asking price. Sounds like they're looking for the same kind of return Detroit got for Stafford. Unrealistic perhaps, but why start off selling low? They should try to get the moon for him right now. You can always lower your asking price.

Edited by The G Man
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20 hours ago, theSPANKER said:

Being sacked close to 400 times and venting your frustration about it is being selfish?

I said a tiny bit selfish, relax.  Like a pea sized morsel.   He's a franchise player.  He should be a truckload more selfish than this, the same way most of his peers are.  

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21 hours ago, theSPANKER said:

Being sacked close to 400 times and venting your frustration about it is being selfish?

Does he not bear any responsibility in that?

He's routinely has one of the longest "time to throw (TT)" year over year according to Next Gen Stats.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2020/REG/all#yards

Duane Brown was an All Pro Left Tackle in 2018 and was named as a Pro Bowl alternate this year.

Carroll is routinely chided for running the ball too much and "not letting Russ cook" but the more they "cook" the more he'll get sacked.

I'm just saying.  Yes maybe they could spend more on guards and centers, but it seems like part of the reason he gets hit as often as he does is that he's trying for all these moonshots and he runs out of time.

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He bears some responsibility - but the team bears more:

Seahawks rank in $ spent on offensive line:

2021: No. 31

2020: No. 26

2019: No. 15

2018: No. 26

2017: No. 26

2016: No. 32

2015: No. 30

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https://nypost.com/2021/02/10/texans-reporter-if-they-traded-him-it-would-be-to-the-jets/

Plugged-in Texans reporter: If Deshaun Watson gets traded ‘it would be to the Jets’

John McClain, who has covered the NFL at the Houston Chronicle for more than 45 years, said on SportsRadio 610 in Houston that the Texans remain firm behind the scenes in their public stance about not trading quarterback Deshaun Watson.

Unless the Jets convince them otherwise. There is a caveat that will have New York – and the rest of the AFC East – buzzing. 

“Anybody who says [the Texans] called the Eagles, not true,” McClain said. “If they traded him, it would be the Jets. No, they have not contacted anyone about trading Watson.”

McClain previously suggested the Texans’ asking price would start at two first-round picks, two second-round picks and two young defensive starters.

“They don’t call teams. Teams call them,” McClain said. “They told everybody they are not trading Watson. Doesn’t mean they won’t do it eventually, but I guarantee you if they did it, [it] would not be for Carson Wentz and the Eagles.”

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1 hour ago, JE7HorseGod said:

So they should pay Duane Brown more?

https://overthecap.com/position/left-tackle/

Duane Brown is great but is also 35 *and* is a FA after 2021, so they need to start thinking about his eventual replacement (or re-sign him if they think he has a few years left).  On the rest of the OL they're set at one OG spot with Damien Lewis.  As for the other spots, 2020 starting RT Shell is IR'd for a bad knee injury and may not be ready week 1.  On the interior,  both OG Iupati and C Pocic are both FAs.  So at best you have 2 of the 5 OL starting spots nailed down to open 2021, plus you probably want at least some decent depth/swing OL players behind them.  So yeah,  the 'Hawks OL needs some attention. 

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43 minutes ago, jumper said:

Duane Brown is great but is also 35 *and* is a FA after 2021, so they need to start thinking about his eventual replacement (or re-sign him if they think he has a few years left).  On the rest of the OL they're set at one OG spot with Damien Lewis.  As for the other spots, 2020 starting RT Shell is IR'd for a bad knee injury and may not be ready week 1.  On the interior,  both OG Iupati and C Pocic are both FAs.  So at best you have 2 of the 5 OL starting spots nailed down to open 2021, plus you probably want at least some decent depth/swing OL players behind them.  So yeah,  the 'Hawks OL needs some attention. 

But the issue that we've been talking about isn't the line for the upcoming season but whether the line up until this point is solely responsible for the almost 400 sacks.

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15 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

But the issue that we've been talking about isn't the line for the upcoming season but whether the line up until this point is solely responsible for the almost 400 sacks.

The discussion also went down a sidetrack of discussing resources devoted to the OL including Duane Brown's salary.  Seems relevant to me the Seahawks seem to have underinvested in the OL generally and RG position specifically for years and had a revolving door of underperforming players there (Chance Warmack, DJ Fluker, etc).  When you have an average to mediocre OL, combined with a QB like Wilson who loves the deep ball to DK, that's a bad combo.  So no, the OL isn't "solely responsible" but it's obvious that (A) investing in it will pay dividends for keeping Wilson clean and upright, and (B) the OL is easier to "fix" than trying to change Russell Wilson into Alex Smith and not hold onto the ball forever so he gets sacked less.  For better or worse the 'Hawks are going to prosper or suck depending on whether "Russ can cook" or not.  You can't neglect an entire position group and hope to succeed (see Pats WR and TE situation for 2020), so if the 'Hawks don't improve the OL this coming year the offense is going to suffer. And yea, I realize their defense needs a lot of attention as well. But QB that's unhappy about his protection is way worse for the organization than a poor defense. If Russell Wilson pulls a Deshaun Watson the 'Hawks problems on defense will look like childs play. 

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NFL Network's Tom Pelissero said teams have continued to call the Seahawks about Russell Wilson's availability. 

Pelissero reiterated that teams calling about Wilson haven't received any indication that Seattle is "in any way inclined to trade their start quarterback." The calls about the quarterback have persisted, Pelissero said, largely because his recent media tour in which he has expressed displeasure about taking too many hits and about the direction of the Seahawks offense. Wilson is under contract with the Seahawks for another three seasons and has a no-trade clause in his contract, meaning -- like Deshaun Watson -- Wilson could choose where he would be traded if the Seahawks are eventually willing to part ways. Barring a stunning about face by the Seahawks, Wilson, 32, will be the team's starter in 2021. 

Feb 11, 2021, 3:13 PM ET
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3 hours ago, JE7HorseGod said:

So they should pay Duane Brown more?

https://overthecap.com/position/left-tackle/


underrated post is underrated. I remember Duane Brown being traded to the Texans and was LT for Deshaun Watson, I thought Texans would sign Brown but he signed with Seattle and Houston sold the farm for Laremy Tunsil. That was a solid addition for Seattle.

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Mannn, this is fun.  Even if nothing crazy happens besides a Watson trade, i'm eating this up.  Why stop at a Russell Wilson trade though?  Here's some more suggestions

  • Brady plus picks to KC for Mahomes
  • Josh Allen for Kyler Murray 
  • Matt Ryan, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Ryan Tannehill all randomly chosen to lead the Titans, Patriots, and Falcons
  • The AFC North randomly swaps QB's, with the lesser ones paired with draft picks in a way that makes each total lot completely even- ie Ben Roethlisberger plus two firsts equals Lamar Jackson or whatever
  • Raiders trade both Carr and Mariota for two firsts and two seconds, then pick up Jameis Winston as a free agent and somehow win 10 games.  
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1 hour ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:


underrated post is underrated. I remember Duane Brown being traded to the Texans and was LT for Deshaun Watson, I thought Texans would sign Brown but he signed with Seattle and Houston sold the farm for Laremy Tunsil. That was a solid addition for Seattle.

Thanks.  Yeah between Brown and Okung I'll say this, Russ has had some pretty good pass blocking left tackles.  You factor that in with the idea that he does tend to hold on to the ball a long time, and the whole, "I'm tired of getting hit" thing is all well and good but IMO partially his own doing.

Could they have drafted guards and centers in the first round or thrown the brinks truck at every available free agent who played those positions?  Maybe, but that's no guarantee he wouldn't have again been among the league leaders in sacks - that's the way he plays ball it appears to me.

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22 minutes ago, BrianM said:

Mannn, this is fun.  Even if nothing crazy happens besides a Watson trade, i'm eating this up.  Why stop at a Russell Wilson trade though?  Here's some more suggestions

  • Brady plus picks to KC for Mahomes
  • Josh Allen for Kyler Murray 
  • Matt Ryan, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Ryan Tannehill all randomly chosen to lead the Titans, Patriots, and Falcons
  • The AFC North randomly swaps QB's, with the lesser ones paired with draft picks in a way that makes each total lot completely even- ie Ben Roethlisberger plus two firsts equals Lamar Jackson or whatever
  • Raiders trade both Carr and Mariota for two firsts and two seconds, then pick up Jameis Winston as a free agent and somehow win 10 games.  

I actually kinda like the Raiders idea. That's more plausible and perhaps makes more sense than a team trading a bunch of assets for Wentz and his huge contract (although the Bears are dumb enough to do it).

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4 minutes ago, jumper said:

I actually kinda like the Raiders idea. That's more plausible and perhaps makes more sense than a team trading a bunch of assets for Wentz and his huge contract (although the Bears are dumb enough to do it).

Right on.  There are plenty of starteable QB's available especially when you look at popular rookies.   There will be more capable starters than there are teams with uncertainty at that position.   It has been a long time since I took economics, but I believe that's a case of something called "supply" exceeding something called "demand".   Theoretically, there should be NO trade market for these fairly interchangeable QB options.  Especially when some of them have albatross level contracts.   Outside of Watson of course, there isn't much difference between a huge range of these guys:  Wentz, Mariota, Winston, Cam, Bridgewater, Carr, Darnold, Fitzmagic, Brissett, Jimmy G, Goff, all seem like guys that'll range between 6-10 wins given the same roster.  None put you over the top.   So, why are you, a highly paid football team manager guy, going to give up assets for a league average starter, when you can not give up assets to get a maybe slightly less starter instead?   

So yea, if the Raiders could get someone to give them even a first and a third for Carr, they should.   If someone else wants a 2nd for Mariota, do that too.   Neither is likely winning you 11-12 games, and you can sign whatever QB you like, probably to a team friendly deal you can get out of in 2022 if he sucks, and still take a rookie QB all the same, because you got the extra picks to burn.   

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3 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:


underrated post is underrated. I remember Duane Brown being traded to the Texans and was LT for Deshaun Watson, I thought Texans would sign Brown but he signed with Seattle and Houston sold the farm for Laremy Tunsil. That was a solid addition for Seattle.

He was traded after his displeasure with the owner boiled up to the surface publicly after McNair’s “inmates” comment, which was preceded by a lengthy holdout fueled by Brown’s pre-existing dislike of McNair -there was no chance he was getting re-upped long-term at that point.

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1 hour ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Thanks.  Yeah between Brown and Okung I'll say this, Russ has had some pretty good pass blocking left tackles.  You factor that in with the idea that he does tend to hold on to the ball a long time, and the whole, "I'm tired of getting hit" thing is all well and good but IMO partially his own doing.

Could they have drafted guards and centers in the first round or thrown the brinks truck at every available free agent who played those positions?  Maybe, but that's no guarantee he wouldn't have again been among the league leaders in sacks - that's the way he plays ball it appears to me.

Here’s a nice breakdown of the Wilson vs. O-line debate - and the ineffective efforts Seattle has made to fortify the line via draft/FA:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/analysis-is-russell-wilson-right-about-the-seahawks-offensive-line-and-can-it-be-fixed/%3famp=1

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9 hours ago, BMcP said:

Here’s a nice breakdown of the Wilson vs. O-line debate - and the ineffective efforts Seattle has made to fortify the line via draft/FA:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/analysis-is-russell-wilson-right-about-the-seahawks-offensive-line-and-can-it-be-fixed/%3famp=1

Thoughtful article, thanks for posting.

So it seems to me the gist from the author is -

1.) They traded Unger for Graham, drafted some ineffective linemen and haven't actively targeted the unit in free agency but have had success at left tackle.

2.) Wilson himself admits he runs into sacks playing hero ball.

3.) They call some slow developing pass plays.

IMO that means he is entitled to some frustration but also probably realizes some of it is his own fault.

Edited by JE7HorseGod
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43 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Thoughtful article, thanks for posting.

So it seems to me the gist from the author is -

1.) They traded Unger for Graham, drafted some ineffective linemen and haven't actively targeted the unit in free agency but have had success at left tackle.

2.) Wilson himself admits he runs into sacks playing hero ball.

3.) They call some slow developing pass plays.

IMO that means he is entitled to some frustration but also probably realizes some of it is his own fault.

 

I think he sees what happened in GB with the team never committing high draft capital to WRs, and doesn't want the Seahawks doing that to him and not commit high draft capital to the OL.  And trust me, the Seahawks (already without their 1st round pick for the Adams trade) are REALLY going to want to spend those picks to improve their D.  Or draft a RB to replace Carson who's a FA this year.  If Russ doesn't push the team, the OL will definitely be an afterthought in the draft when as I said they are already down 2 starters lost in FA and have a RT whose knee injury may not be ready to go by week 1.  And before you say "well let them sign a FA guy for the OL or RB" keep in mind the team has less than $5mm cap money left for 2021. 

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7 minutes ago, jumper said:

 

I think he sees what happened in GB with the team never committing high draft capital to WRs, and doesn't want the Seahawks doing that to him and not commit high draft capital to the OL.  And trust me, the Seahawks (already without their 1st round pick for the Adams trade) are REALLY going to want to spend those picks to improve their D.  Or draft a RB to replace Carson who's a FA this year.  If Russ doesn't push the team, the OL will definitely be an afterthought in the draft when as I said they are already down 2 starters lost in FA and have a RT whose knee injury may not be ready to go by week 1.  And before you say "well let them sign a FA guy for the OL or RB" keep in mind the team has less than $5mm cap money left for 2021. 

Ironically of course Rodgers just had what was perhaps his best statistical season in his career the year after his team traded up to spend a first round pick on a QB and was blasted by everyone for not getting him another WR.

🤷‍♂️

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