BMcP 8,838 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 13 minutes ago, NInsko said: Its hard to tell if you actually think Wentz is good or just like to be a contrarian.. I agree with mjj28s point of view for the most part as he made a few excellent posts explaining his point of view. You basically called him illogical while twisting his words.. very deceptive and underhanded imo I doubt the Eagles would have drafted Hurts in the 2nd round had they thought Wentz was the long term answer nor would they have benched Wentz down the stretch if they planned to start him 2021. What i saw last yr and the yr before was a dude who got paid and his production declined, there are many cases of this add in the list of injuries and he just doesnt seem that good. Yes he played at a mvp level for 10-13 games in 2017 but besides that hes only had one other winning season in his 5 yrs in philly and has only played 16 games twice in 5 yrs also.. he just not that good. As a Colts fan id rather anybody else. I’ll clear it up then: I think Wentz is good, and certainly much better than he showed in 2020. But I don’t mind being contrarian when I have an opinion that happens to be contrary to another’s opinion - if we all just expressed the same views, there wouldn’t be much discussion on this discussion forum. I didn’t twist anyone’s words - just sought to understand the poster’s rationale. There’s really no need to call me names on account of it. Both other posters and I listed many of the reasons Wentz’s performance suffered this year - do you disagree that those are valid or relevant to the discussion of Wentz’s 2020 production? I’ll conclude by saying I respect your opinion, even though I disagree with you. As a consolation I would just add that you will most likely get your wish with respect to your team’s next QB. Edited February 12 by BMcP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NInsko 261 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 19 minutes ago, BMcP said: I’ll clear it up then: I think Wentz is good, and certainly much better than he showed in 2020. But I don’t mind being contrarian when I have an opinion that happens to be contrary to another’s opinion - if we all just expressed the same views, there wouldn’t be much discussion on this discussion forum. I didn’t twist anyone’s words - just sought to understand the poster’s rationale. There’s really no need to call me names on account of it. Both other posters and I listed many of the reasons Wentz’s performance suffered this year - do you disagree that those are valid or relevant to the discussion of Wentz’s 2020 production? I’ll conclude by saying I respect your opinion, even though I disagree with you. As a consolation I would just add that you will most likely get your wish with respect to your team’s QB. maybe I overstepped a little, appologies. Mjj28s points seemed clear to me and i thought your example was disingenous in essense calling him illogical. I get people have differing opinions but when you twisted his example it just seemed to ME that you were doing so on purpose to " win" the argument which i found underhanded. I guess i was wrong once again my appologies. I 100% respect your opinion aswell as i have read many of your posts in many other threads throughout the yrs and generally agree with you just not this one i guess. No hard feelings pal nothing personal. Edited February 12 by NInsko 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BMcP 8,838 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, NInsko said: maybe I overstepped a little, appologies. Mjj28s points seemed clear to me and i thought your example was disingenous in essense calling him illogical. I get people have differing opinions but when you twisted his example it just seemed to ME that you were doing so on purpose to " win" the argument which i found underhanded. I guess i was wrong once again my appologies. I 100% respect your opinion aswell as i have read many of your posts in many other threads throughout the yrs and generally agree with you just not this one i guess. No hard feelings pal nothing personal. None taken - and I highly appreciate the kind words! And if I inadvertently caused offense, to MJJ or anyone else for that matter, I also sincerely apologize. I promise I wouldn’t seek out conversation here if I didn’t truly believe it was the best spot going to share opinions and gain valuable insights! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NInsko 261 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, BMcP said: None taken - and I highly appreciate the kind words! And if I inadvertently caused offense, to MJJ or anyone else for that matter, I also sincerely apologize. I promise I wouldn’t seek out conversation here if I didn’t truly believe it was the best spot going to share opinions and gain valuable insights! Agreed this place is awesome.. you and cleats are the og posters i know a few others, great minds and great opinions. Im obviously biased in this particular case as hes mainly been connected the Colts. I do think he will improve there im just not a fan and never have been. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DerrickHenrysCleats 6,195 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I think Wentz is good for fantasy football. the talent level on the OL was severely lacking last year. The OL coach Jeff Stoutland did an amazing job piecing guys together every week but I think that was Wentz’s biggest problem this past season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StuPitt 357 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/11/2021 at 8:21 AM, smeeze said: The Bears already declined his 5th year option (last May). 5th year options have to be accepted/declined before the 4th year. Trashbinsky is a UFA. I realize that. The point is The Bears can still resign him for money (less than what Wentz made) and not have to give up high draft picks to get him. So why go after Wentz? In my opinion, I don't think Wentz is any better than Trubisky. He is too risky. Heck, Bears can sign Winston who is better and not have to give up draft picks either. Eagles need to lower their price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The G Man 1,107 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 The Athletic's Zak Keefer reports NFL teams are "showing over the last week that they're not gonna budge on the Eagles' very, very steep initial offer" for Carson Wentz. Keefer named the Colts and implied other teams are in the market for Wentz, who is certainly on his way out of Philadelphia. The Bears have reportedly shown interest in acquiring Wentz, but even a QB-hungry team like Chicago seems unwilling to pay a premium for Wentz. The Eagles reportedly don't want to give up Wentz for less than the Lions got from the Rams for Matthew Stafford -- namely, a 2021 third-round pick, a 2022 first-round pick, and a 2023 first-round pick. Wentz's total debacle of a 2020 campaign complicates things for Philadephia. The Wentz trade rumors could persist for weeks -- or months -- unless the Eagles budge. Related: Indianapolis Colts , Chicago Bears Source: Zak Keefer on Twitter Feb 12, 2021, 11:27 AM ET Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kdko 1,196 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 4 hours ago, The G Man said: The Athletic's Zak Keefer reports NFL teams are "showing over the last week that they're not gonna budge on the Eagles' very, very steep initial offer" for Carson Wentz. Keefer named the Colts and implied other teams are in the market for Wentz, who is certainly on his way out of Philadelphia. The Bears have reportedly shown interest in acquiring Wentz, but even a QB-hungry team like Chicago seems unwilling to pay a premium for Wentz. The Eagles reportedly don't want to give up Wentz for less than the Lions got from the Rams for Matthew Stafford -- namely, a 2021 third-round pick, a 2022 first-round pick, and a 2023 first-round pick. Wentz's total debacle of a 2020 campaign complicates things for Philadephia. The Wentz trade rumors could persist for weeks -- or months -- unless the Eagles budge. Related: Indianapolis Colts , Chicago Bears Source: Zak Keefer on Twitter Feb 12, 2021, 11:27 AM ET Don't blame 'em either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The G Man 1,107 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 NFL analyst Ron Jaworski reports the Colts have offered "two second-round draft picks" for Carson Wentz. It's the best offer the Eagles have for Wentz. The Eagles are holding out for a Matthew Stafford type deal, but that's not going to happen. Teams have been unwilling to even offer a late first-round pick for Wentz. The Wentz market has cooled in recent weeks, with Chicago reportedly losing interest. Philly is going to have to come off its asking price to trade Wentz this offseason. Related: Indianapolis Colts Source: WPVI Philadelphia Feb 13, 2021, 11:36 AM ET Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jumper 576 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 10 minutes ago, The G Man said: NFL analyst Ron Jaworski reports the Colts have offered "two second-round draft picks" for Carson Wentz. It's the best offer the Eagles have for Wentz. The Eagles are holding out for a Matthew Stafford type deal, but that's not going to happen. Teams have been unwilling to even offer a late first-round pick for Wentz. The Wentz market has cooled in recent weeks, with Chicago reportedly losing interest. Philly is going to have to come off its asking price to trade Wentz this offseason. Related: Indianapolis Colts Source: WPVI Philadelphia Feb 13, 2021, 11:36 AM ET If I were the Eagles, I’ll see if I could package Wentz and Ertz to the Colts for a first and second. They seem to want to get rid of both guys anyway, might as well make it a package deal for a couple positions the Colts would otherwise probably spend draft couple on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GottaGetTheWin 2,343 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 You know your career has fallen off a cliff when a team that barely has a QB on it's active roster won't even give a first round pick for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Mama 140 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, jumper said: If I were the Eagles, I’ll see if I could package Wentz and Ertz to the Colts for a first and second. They seem to want to get rid of both guys anyway, might as well make it a package deal for a couple positions the Colts would otherwise probably spend draft couple on. Colts wouldn’t do it 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kdko 1,196 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, Joe Mama said: Colts wouldn’t do it They still have Brissett on the roster who is servicable. Does Wentz really boost their team that much that they'd pay a 1st and pick up that contract for him? I don't think so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GottaGetTheWin 2,343 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 11 minutes ago, kdko said: They still have Brissett on the roster who is servicable. Does Wentz really boost their team that much that they'd pay a 1st and pick up that contract for him? I don't think so. Brissett is a Free Agent. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kdko 1,196 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, GottaGetTheWin said: Brissett is a Free Agent. Ahh, wasn't aware of that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ajs723 3,436 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 23 minutes ago, kdko said: Ahh, wasn't aware of that! I don't think it would be hard at all for them to resign him. Giving up draft capital for a bum like Wentz is bad any way you slice it. Draft a rookie or go with cheaper options. I don't know how much truth there is to any of the rumors, but I hope the Colts aren't that dumb. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JE7HorseGod 2,751 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I've been a Rollercoaster with Carson Wentz. When he was drafted I thought he was overrated and unproven against small school competition. He won me over. As others have pointed out, it was in a near perfect offensive situation and Foles won the SB after he got hurt, but I still honestly thought until this season he was pretty good. I think it is possible that he still might be and this was just a bad year. Or maybe he is broken. I don't have any idea anymore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1,337 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I'm still puzzled by this- short of Eagles giving me a pick to take him, I'm not locking myself into a guy who was easily the league's most disappointing QB last season. I've beat this dead horse on at least one other thread, maybe two, but, outside of Watson, there is not another QB who is certainly available who is head and shoulders above the rest of the lot. There should be no reason to give up something massive for any of these guys over signing Winston or Andy Dalton for low end starter money on a one year deal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DerrickHenrysCleats 6,195 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 8 hours ago, Joe Mama said: Colts wouldn’t do it why? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kdko 1,196 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 On 2/13/2021 at 7:31 PM, DerrickHenrysCleats said: why? If Russell and Watson is unhappy, you go all out trying to acquire those 2. Not Wentz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GottaGetTheWin 2,343 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 7 minutes ago, kdko said: If Russell and Watson is unhappy, you go all out trying to acquire those 2. Not Wentz 0% chance the Texans trade Watson in the division so you can rule that one out right now. Wilson is much more doable but I think the chances of the Seahawks trading him are on the same level of the Packers trading Rogers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jumper 576 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 44 minutes ago, kdko said: If Russell and Watson is unhappy, you go all out trying to acquire those 2. Not Wentz Indy has already offered two 2nd rounders for Wentz. Maybe they've reconsidered that deal, and if so then yeah then obviously they wouldn't be interested in this either. But if they still would make that 2 x 2nd rounders trade for Wentz, an upgrade of one of those picks by a single round (to an offer already made for Wentz alone) could happen if it includes Ertz. Especially when TE is a 2021 need for the Colts (currently all they have is Jack Doyle, who is a cut candidate due to his $5.78mm cap hit). I'm not the Colts and who knows what they're thinking, but it's not like l'm proposing something super off the wall here (at least I don't think I am). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SharkSwimmer 4,986 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Betcha Roseman wants two firsts, a 3rd, and a starting QB in return for Wentz. That's what Detroit got for Stafford. And Roseman probably thinks Wentz is better than Stafford, and therefore worth at least as much. He's like that team manager in your fantasy league who comically overvalues his own players. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theSPANKER 2,187 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 9 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said: Betcha Roseman wants two firsts, a 3rd, and a starting QB in return for Wentz. That's what Detroit got for Stafford. And Roseman probably thinks Wentz is better than Stafford, and therefore worth at least as much. He's like that team manager in your fantasy league who comically overvalues his own players. Yeah, the same manager who has a descending losing record who won't make a trade to save his season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ricky Bobby 43 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 On 2/13/2021 at 11:31 PM, DerrickHenrysCleats said: why? 1. Terrible value 2. need wr to replace TY or re-sign him. 3. Castonzo replacement. 4. RE-signing Q, Smith, and Leonard upcoming. 5. Pass rusher to replace Houston or re-sign. 6. Chris Ballard loves them picks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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