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Deshaun Watson 2021 Outlook


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10 hours ago, yossarian said:

If I had to put money on it I'd say he's not getting on the field this season. There's a chance he never plays another down in the NFL again.

I think it's super unlikely he plays this season. I think it's equally unlikely that he never plays again. Vick came back after literally murdering puppies. Watson will get another chance, but it isn't happening until next offseason. 

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On 7/10/2021 at 9:36 AM, ajs723 said:

I think it's super unlikely he plays this season. I think it's equally unlikely that he never plays again. Vick came back after literally murdering puppies. Watson will get another chance, but it isn't happening until next offseason. 

For better or worse people were/are a lot more chill about Vick's nonchalant murdering of animals than they are about sexual assault. If he can't make a double digit number of accusations turn into dust, there's certainly a chance he never plays again. Watson is not bigger than the NFL. He's a replaceable cog in the money-printing machine. If they deem it a net negative financially to let him back into the league, he's not coming back. Look at Kaep, blackballed bc they didn't want to alienate the NFL's sizable racist idiot fanbase. At the end of the day, as with all capitalist enterprises, money is the deciding factor.

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17 minutes ago, sleepysock said:

For better or worse people were/are a lot more chill about Vick's nonchalant murdering of animals than they are about sexual assault. If he can't make a double digit number of accusations turn into dust, there's certainly a chance he never plays again. Watson is not bigger than the NFL. He's a replaceable cog in the money-printing machine. If they deem it a net negative financially to let him back into the league, he's not coming back. Look at Kaep, blackballed bc they didn't want to alienate the NFL's sizable racist idiot fanbase. At the end of the day, as with all capitalist enterprises, money is the deciding factor.

This isnt the Bernie Sanders forum. Kaepernick isnt an NFL quarterback. Like Richard Sherman said about him after the nfc championship game....hes weak and doesn't have it.

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46 minutes ago, ChrisChinMcCaffrey said:

This isnt the Bernie Sanders forum. Kaepernick isnt an NFL quarterback. Like Richard Sherman said about him after the nfc championship game....hes weak and doesn't have it.

Except there were weaker QBs playing than Kaepernick after he got blackballed.

What he said was spot on. 

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2 hours ago, ChrisChinMcCaffrey said:

This isnt the Bernie Sanders forum. Kaepernick isnt an NFL quarterback. Like Richard Sherman said about him after the nfc championship game....hes weak and doesn't have it.

This is not a political statement. Worse quarterbacks got a chance to play when Kaep couldn't even get a workout; when the fishiness of that became apparent he got some token workouts. He was excised from the NFL to protect the only thing those running the show care about. If Watson becomes too toxic, he will get the hammer as well.

According to Joe Lockhart, who worked in the league office at the time this was happening:

Quote

 

“No teams wanted to sign a player—even one as talented as Kaepernick—whom they saw as controversial, and, therefore, bad for business. Kaepernick was not blocked because the league wanted to punish him for setting off the protests. In fact, just the opposite is true. The commissioner and several other league executives spent a lot of effort prodding and pushing owners to sign him,” Lockhart wrote.

“But for many owners it always came back to the same thing. Signing Kaepernick, they thought, was bad for business. ...

“That symbol of racial injustice was reinforced every day that Colin sat on the outside of the football world. It may have seemed like a good business decision for the clubs to not sign him, and it certainly wasn’t illegal, but it was wrong.”

 

No other healthy QB of his caliber, in his twenties no less, has ever had the door shut on them like this. Not an NFL QB? Pete Carrol strongly disagreed in 2017. And in Kaep's final season he had nearly 500 rushing yards to go with a 16:4 TD:INT ratio. He wasn't great but he was solid enough to easily take up a roster spot on any NFL team, and start on a few.

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3 minutes ago, sleepysock said:

This is not a political statement. Worse quarterbacks got a chance to play when Kaep couldn't even get a workout; when the fishiness of that became apparent he got some token workouts. He was excised from the NFL to protect the only thing those running the show care about. If Watson becomes too toxic, he will get the hammer as well.

According to Joe Lockhart, who worked in the league office at the time this was happening:

No other healthy QB of his caliber, in his twenties no less, has ever had the door shut on them like this. Not an NFL QB? Pete Carrol strongly disagreed in 2017. And in Kaep's final season he had nearly 500 rushing yards to go with a 16:4 TD:INT ratio. He wasn't great but he was solid enough to easily take up a roster spot on any NFL team, and start on a few.

This isn’t even an argument, and it never was.  No one can ever make a case that Kaep wasn’t in the league because of football, and that he was not just as good as the best backup, and miles ahead 3rd string QBs.  The End.

Aside from that, I consider this and Watson’s situation to be extremely different.   If you find it comparable to Ray Rice, there is a route that he could end up never playing again.  But a Superstar franchise QB in his 20s (may not even be in his prime)?  
 

I highly doubt that he won’t find work.  Someone will sign him.

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1 minute ago, nn4mz said:

This isn’t even an argument, and it never was.  No one can ever make a case that Kaep wasn’t in the league because of football, and that he was not just as good as the best backup, and miles ahead 3rd string QBs.  The End.

Aside from that, I consider this and Watson’s situation to be extremely different.   If you find it comparable to Ray Rice, there is a route that he could end up never playing again.  But a Superstar franchise QB in his 20s (may not even be in his prime)?  
 

I highly doubt that he won’t find work.  Someone will sign him.

We'll see. If Watson, at the end of everything, is convicted of sexual assault, and more specifically of rape, the PR will be so unbelievably bad that I can't see any team touching him ever again.

Anyway, most likely the NFL will place him on leave/maybe suspend him while the investigation is ongoing (like Bauer in MLB) and with the sheer number of accusations to work through, this is likely not going to end anytime soon. So he could be off the field for a year or longer right there. Probably not much more to say right now about the whole thing.

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1 hour ago, sleepysock said:

This is not a political statement. Worse quarterbacks got a chance to play when Kaep couldn't even get a workout; when the fishiness of that became apparent he got some token workouts. He was excised from the NFL to protect the only thing those running the show care about. If Watson becomes too toxic, he will get the hammer as well.

According to Joe Lockhart, who worked in the league office at the time this was happening:

No other healthy QB of his caliber, in his twenties no less, has ever had the door shut on them like this. Not an NFL QB? Pete Carrol strongly disagreed in 2017. And in Kaep's final season he had nearly 500 rushing yards to go with a 16:4 TD:INT ratio. He wasn't great but he was solid enough to easily take up a roster spot on any NFL team, and start on a few.

Eh. Kapernick stunk at the end. King of the hollow stat check downs. Didnt take the top off defenses anymore. Teams stacked the box because they knew this and knew he wouldn’t beat them.

Of course kapernick is pretty off topic for the Deshaun Cosby thread. Seems a lot different and worse to me if it’s just allegations we are going off of than Bauer, and even that situation while horrid is apples to oranges.

I think bets should be on Watson doing hard criminal time before I would stepping on an NFL field again. 

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1 hour ago, mevins31 said:

Eh. Kapernick stunk at the end. King of the hollow stat check downs. Didnt take the top off defenses anymore. Teams stacked the box because they knew this and knew he wouldn’t beat them.

Of course kapernick is pretty off topic for the Deshaun Cosby thread. Seems a lot different and worse to me if it’s just allegations we are going off of than Bauer, and even that situation while horrid is apples to oranges.

I think bets should be on Watson doing hard criminal time before I would stepping on an NFL field again. 

Kap could still run and wasn't a bad decision maker. he was a game manager with legs. That's not worthless. Significantly better than, let's say, Jay Cutler, who started for Miami in 2017.

As far as off-topic, I only brought him up bc he was blackballed and Watson could be as well. If Watson is convicted and does 3 years or something, I don't know how many fans would be willing to say, "he paid his debt to society so let's allow the sex abuser to make tens of millions of dollars again." Particularly, the NFL has to be careful not to alienate their female demo -- only NASCAR has a larger % of its fans being women. There's a lot to lose there if they bungle this.

I do believe felons should be rehabilitated and reintegrated into society and not just cast off forever, but that does not mean a return to the spoils of luxury that existed before the crimes. A fit young man like Mr. Watson can make a nice living working as a sanitation worker or ditch-digger!

Anyway he could get the cold shoulder from owners the same way Kap did, albeit for very different reasons.

If I were betting I'd say 15% jail time (how often do these guys actually face harsh consequences?), 25% hush money and intimidation let him sneak away from this and back onto an NFL field (a la Kobe) sooner rather than later, 60% something in between that leads to him missing several seasons, perhaps a mix of paid leave and suspension.

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4 hours ago, sleepysock said:

This is not a political statement. Worse quarterbacks got a chance to play when Kaep couldn't even get a workout; when the fishiness of that became apparent he got some token workouts. He was excised from the NFL to protect the only thing those running the show care about. If Watson becomes too toxic, he will get the hammer as well.

According to Joe Lockhart, who worked in the league office at the time this was happening:

No other healthy QB of his caliber, in his twenties no less, has ever had the door shut on them like this. Not an NFL QB? Pete Carrol strongly disagreed in 2017. And in Kaep's final season he had nearly 500 rushing yards to go with a 16:4 TD:INT ratio. He wasn't great but he was solid enough to easily take up a roster spot on any NFL team, and start on a few.

Yeah it is. Kaepernick and his advisors made the decision it was more important for him to be a prop then play football because cleo lemon is better than Kaepernick.

 

Tim Tebow was pushed out of the league because of the NFLs bigotry towards his religion and skin color.

The NFL has been a junk product for ten years. Fantasy football is what keeps the nfl going.

If vick can play football again and have a job for espn or fox there is no excuse for Colin Kaepernick.

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30 minutes ago, ChrisChinMcCaffrey said:

Tim Tebow was pushed out of the league because of the NFLs bigotry towards his religion and skin color.

 

LOL. Man oh man. If a comment could come to life this one would surely wave a confederate flag and call itself a "real patriot." 🤣

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1 hour ago, sleepysock said:

LOL. Man oh man. If a comment could come to life this one would surely wave a confederate flag and call itself a "real patriot." 🤣

 

1 hour ago, sleepysock said:

LOL. Man oh man. If a comment could come to life this one would surely wave a confederate flag and call itself a "real patriot." 🤣

You are yet again making assumptions based in bigotry. Maybe if some players where not so stubborn they wouldn't have this problem.

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2 hours ago, ChrisChinMcCaffrey said:

Yeah it is. Kaepernick and his advisors made the decision it was more important for him to be a prop then play football because cleo lemon is better than Kaepernick.

 

Tim Tebow was pushed out of the league because of the NFLs bigotry towards his religion and skin color.

The NFL has been a junk product for ten years. Fantasy football is what keeps the nfl going.

If vick can play football again and have a job for espn or fox there is no excuse for Colin Kaepernick.

Keep was significantly better than Tebow in the following stats:

Completion percentage, yards per attempt, interception percentage, TD percentage, TD:Int ratio, QB rating, yards per carry....

But yeah, other than every measurable statistic, the two were totally comparable. 

Kaepernick ended his career playing well on the worst team in the league. Hey, that sounds like Watson last year. Dang, I guess Watson sucks and isn't even good enough to be a backup in the NFL. I guess the assault charges aren't even the story here, it's more about Watson being garbage. 

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1 hour ago, ajs723 said:

Keep was significantly better than Tebow in the following stats:

Completion percentage, yards per attempt, interception percentage, TD percentage, TD:Int ratio, QB rating, yards per carry....

But yeah, other than every measurable statistic, the two were totally comparable. 

Kaepernick ended his career playing well on the worst team in the league. Hey, that sounds like Watson last year. Dang, I guess Watson sucks and isn't even good enough to be a backup in the NFL. I guess the assault charges aren't even the story here, it's more about Watson being garbage. 

Please show where I said Watson stinks and is a back up. Again you are assuming. Watson statiscally had a fantastic season that went somewhat unnoticed because he isn't mahomes or Brady and didnt rush for 1,000 yards like Jackson.

He is  the one who has dozens of sexual assists cases against him. Also if you want to check my opinion on cases similar to these for people who look different check out what I said about Trevor Bauer.

 

Kaepernick had one of the best offensive lines for his super bowl run and the season after.

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Tebow got about 5 more chances than he deserved, and is getting yet another one now, because of his politics, popularity, and persona.  He's terrible.

Kaep was really good in his prime when opposing defenses were adjusting to his tremendous athleticism.  But by the end he was vegan, not as strong, and his limitations had been exposed by defensive scheming.  Was he still better than most of the league's backups?  Yes.  Was he at all, in any way, willing to be a backup?  No.  Were his politics, though noble in my view, a major headache and distraction?  Very much so.

Watson is a much better quarterback than Tebow and Kaepernick ever were.  It is not close.  But his off-the-field issues appear to be 100x worse.  With so many coming forward, it gets harder and harder to look the other way.

Add in the fact that Houston was in a contract standoff before the massages even became public.  The league office is stuck in the middle.  Whichever way they turn, it will have major repercussions.  That is why I think the league office has done nothing except for to wait and to watch.

But I think Watson not playing in 2021 is a fairly safe bet at this point.  If he settles his cases quietly without too much pr damage, the NFL will likely let him suit up in 2022.

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If you’re good enough the NFL will sign you no matter what. You can commit murder and they’ll let you play (Lewis). If you’re not good enough then it becomes a question of if the PR fallout is worth rostering you.

If Kaep was better than some backups is irrelevant. Those backups didn’t cause any drama and also likely provided a lot more use in the film room. They also didn’t want 10M a year. 

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30 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Tebow got about 5 more chances than he deserved, and is getting yet another one now, because of his politics, popularity, and persona.  He's terrible.

Kaep was really good in his prime when opposing defenses were adjusting to his tremendous athleticism.  But by the end he was vegan, not as strong, and his limitations had been exposed by defensive scheming.  Was he still better than most of the league's backups?  Yes.  Was he at all, in any way, willing to be a backup?  No.  Were his politics, though noble in my view, a major headache and distraction?  Very much so.

Watson is a much better quarterback than Tebow and Kaepernick ever were.  It is not close.  But his off-the-field issues appear to be 100x worse.  With so many coming forward, it gets harder and harder to look the other way.

Add in the fact that Houston was in a contract standoff before the massages even became public.  The league office is stuck in the middle.  Whichever way they turn, it will have major repercussions.  That is why I think the league office has done nothing except for to wait and to watch.

But I think Watson not playing in 2021 is a fairly safe bet at this point.  If he settles his cases quietly without too much pr damage, the NFL will likely let him suit up in 2022.

Don’t even know why people are comparing Watson to Kaep. Kaep had an unpopular political stance while Watson probably committed sexual assault multiple times.

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5 hours ago, ChrisChinMcCaffrey said:

Please show where I said Watson stinks and is a back up. Again you are assuming. Watson statiscally had a fantastic season that went somewhat unnoticed because he isn't mahomes or Brady and didnt rush for 1,000 yards like Jackson.

He is  the one who has dozens of sexual assists cases against him. Also if you want to check my opinion on cases similar to these for people who look different check out what I said about Trevor Bauer.

 

Kaepernick had one of the best offensive lines for his super bowl run and the season after.

It's an analogy. My point is that saying Kaep is garbage and wasn't good enough to even be a backup is exactly as ludicrous as saying Watson isn't good enough to have a job. Kaep was a very good NFL QB and would have been a starter for years to come if he hadn't been blackballed. 

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4 hours ago, Gohawks said:

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If you’re good enough the NFL will sign you no matter what. You can commit murder and they’ll let you play (Lewis). If you’re not good enough then it becomes a question of if the PR fallout is worth rostering you.

If Kaep was better than some backups is irrelevant. Those backups didn’t cause any drama and also likely provided a lot more use in the film room. They also didn’t want 10M a year. 

I'll take misleading graphics for $1000, Alex.

Games, really?

He was on the worst team in the NFL. By far. He had the worst offensive support of any QB I can recall in recent memory. Deshaun Watson went 4-12 last year, and he's elite and had a better team than 2015-2016 Kaep. 

His 59.2% completion percentage was slightly worse than Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning, and a little better than Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

QBR is dumb. Kaep's QB rating was a respecable about 85-86 over that span. 

And again, this was playing on a team that was a complete dumpster fire around him. I don't know why we always ignore that fact. 

His top two receivers were Jeremy Kerley and Quinton Patton. That would be like a team having Chris Conley and Chad Beebe as their top two WRs. Good luck. 

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14 minutes ago, ajs723 said:

It's an analogy. My point is that saying Kaep is garbage and wasn't good enough to even be a backup is exactly as ludicrous as saying Watson isn't good enough to have a job. Kaep was a very good NFL QB and would have been a starter for years to come if he hadn't been blackballed. 

Why don't people understand that teams want a backup QB to sit in the background, provide film insight, and be a help to the starter?

Kaep does none of that. He wanted to be in the foreground, couldn't provide film insight because his football IQ isn't very good, and he isn't much help to most starters with his playstyle regardless.

Some of you are really delusional thinking that NFL teams will have murderers, animal abusers, women beaters, and whatever else on rosters but not a guy that took a knee. 

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1 minute ago, ajs723 said:

I'll take misleading graphics for $1000, Alex.

Games, really?

He was on the worst team in the NFL. By far. He had the worst offensive support of any QB I can recall in recent memory. Deshaun Watson went 4-12 last year, and he's elite and had a better team than 2015-2016 Kaep. 

His 59.2% completion percentage was slightly worse than Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning, and a little better than Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

QBR is dumb. Kaep's QB rating was a respecable about 85-86 over that span. 

And again, this was playing on a team that was a complete dumpster fire around him. I don't know why we always ignore that fact. 

His top two receivers were Jeremy Kerley and Quinton Patton. That would be like a team having Chris Conley and Chad Beebe as their top two WRs. Good luck. 

Weird how Gabbert came into the same garbage team and managed to have a better record, higher completion percentage, more yards per game, almost double the TDs per game, more yards per attempt, and a higher QB rating

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20 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

Weird how Gabbert came into the same garbage team and managed to have a better record, higher completion percentage, more yards per game, almost double the TDs per game, more yards per attempt, and a higher QB rating

Weird how that's just a lie. 

Gabbert went 1-4 with a lower completion percentage, a worse TD-Int ratio, and a lower QB rating.

So.... what?!

Edit - If you're just looking at 2015, where Gabbert piled up some garbage time stats in some blowout losses, then fine. But if you think Gabbert was a better real life QB in 2015 than Kaep, then I know I should never take anything you say seriously again. 

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1 hour ago, ajs723 said:

Weird how that's just a lie. 

Gabbert went 1-4 with a lower completion percentage, a worse TD-Int ratio, and a lower QB rating.

So.... what?!

Edit - If you're just looking at 2015, where Gabbert piled up some garbage time stats in some blowout losses, then fine. But if you think Gabbert was a better real life QB in 2015 than Kaep, then I know I should never take anything you say seriously again. 

In 2015 Gabbert had better stats than Kaep in literally every category that matters but I’m the crazy one.

Okie dokie buddy…

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