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20 hours ago, this guy right here said:

 

What proof is there?  Pitchers are built diffrently than they used to be and throw much harder.  The wear and tear pitchers put on their arms today is not analagous to pitchers of the 1950s. 

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Picture this:  it's the year 2098, the world is a nuclear wasteland.  Buildings are merely empty crumbling shells.  The sky is an orange, purple color, constantly highlighted by dust clouds and freque

Yes, this includes myself...

Donkey Johnson? Did he play in the pre 1900 era?

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Have any of you read Bob Feller’s book “little book of baseball”? He talks about this too and believes that pitchers are too muscle bound and the tendons/ligaments can’t handle the torque. He also said he threw every day to keep his arm loose and limber.

He ain’t no doctor, but you didn’t hear about as many injuries back then than you have for many years now. Leads me to believe there’s some truth to his opinion.

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The NY Daily News article posted at the bottom of page 4 of this thread has a lot of tough guy nonsense from (Doctor?  Medical Expert?) Nolan Ryan but actually contains one pertinent quote from Tommy John that I'd be more inclined to believe as part of the reason for the increased injuries:

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"First of all, one of the biggest reasons for all the arm injuries in baseball today is the way young kids are handled by their coaches in grade school and high school, pitching them year-round," said John by phone from his home in Syracuse. "They're told if they want to make it, they have to play travel ball — and that results in the over-use of their arms when they're body is not fully developed. Travel ball has taken over the entire country and parents need to be educated about what this does to these kids' arms."

 

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2 hours ago, this guy right here said:

 

Wow. Thank you for bringing up a perfect name to prove my point. They babied Johan to start his career. Wouldn't let him start for two years. Didn't become a full time starter and throw 200IN until his 5th. CLEARLY didn't prevent injury or prolong his career.

With the internet existing you'd think history would be easier to remember as it can be instantly searched.

Pitchers as early as the 90's would throw double digit complete games. Each generation players pitched more and got hurt less. This is a statistical fact.

Even Tommy John HIMSELF pitched 200IN the year after HIS surgery and went on to pitch healthily for many more years. Luis Severino hasn't pitched in two+ calendar years.

Lets see what a MLB legend who would know more than anyone thinks.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/madden-nolan-ryan-tommy-john-babying-pitchers-doesn-work-article-1.1730546

 

Maybe your Daily Times article from 7 years ago has a point and maybe 2 pitchers do know more than doctors.   Noah Syndergaard and Mike Clevinger come to mind as 2 guys that could pitch through the slight pain because "it was nothing."

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23 minutes ago, charger_ss24 said:

Have any of you read Bob Feller’s book “little book of baseball”? He talks about this too and believes that pitchers are too muscle bound and the tendons/ligaments can’t handle the torque. He also said he threw every day to keep his arm loose and limber.

He ain’t no doctor, but you didn’t hear about as many injuries back then than you have for many years now. Leads me to believe there’s some truth to his opinion.

That's possible.  I've never read the book.  But times have changed as ha medical technology.   Hockey players didn't wear helmets and there were no concussions.  

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10 hours ago, charger_ss24 said:

He wants full time pay for part time play.

Supposedly turned down 20 million a year. Oh right, he does decide to show up for a few games in October, but is pretty much becoming irrelevant in fantasy because of his injuries and lack of production. Just a maddening player. 

Edited by CardiacDO
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Pitchers who won 300 or more games from 1900 to 1970, with the entirety of their careers included before 1970's (the adoption of 5 man rotations).

Walter Johnson Grover Alexander Christy Matheson Warren Spahn Eddie Plank Lefty Grove, Early Wynn (7)

Number of 300 game winners who pitched during the 1970's and beyond:

Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Tom Glavine Phil Niekro Don Sutton, gaylord Perry, Tom Seaver, randy Johnson (10)

Tell me again how pitchers from a long time ago pitched 300 innings and never got hurt and enjoyed lasting success.  Factor in how much harder modern pitchers need to throw to face modern baseball hitters and judge for yourself if pitching can be corrected by throwing more innings.  The whole idea is preposterous.

 

 

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2 hours ago, KingJoffrey said:

Pitchers who won 300 or more games from 1900 to 1970, with the entirety of their careers included before 1970's (the adoption of 5 man rotations).

Walter Johnson Grover Alexander Christy Matheson Warren Spahn Eddie Plank Lefty Grove, Early Wynn (7)

Number of 300 game winners who pitched during the 1970's and beyond:

Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Tom Glavine Phil Niekro Don Sutton, gaylord Perry, Tom Seaver, randy Johnson (10)

Tell me again how pitchers from a long time ago pitched 300 innings and never got hurt and enjoyed lasting success.  Factor in how much harder modern pitchers need to throw to face modern baseball hitters and judge for yourself if pitching can be corrected by throwing more innings.  The whole idea is preposterous.

 

 

 

6 of your 10 post 1970 pitchers started their MLB careers in the 1960s.

So there are 4 300 game winners who started their MLB career since 1970 (over the last 50 years)

 

 

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52 minutes ago, jb_power said:

 

6 of your 10 post 1970 pitchers started their MLB careers in the 1960s.

So there are 4 300 game winners who started their MLB career since 1970 (over the last 50 years)

 

 

Yes, several pitchers overlap here and pitched in the "dead ball" era of the 1960's as someone mentioned.  Their careers greatly overlapped into the 1970's when modern rotation structures started to become the norm.

Nevertheless, the point is pretty clear. If pitchers were routinely throwing 300+ innings, year after year and never getting hurt, there would not be more than a handful of 300 game winners between 1900-1970.  There would be dozens of them.  Once you factor in the relative difficulty of throwing at the higher average speeds of today, there can be no doubt that overusing their arms is not a "cure" for injuries.  It's as ridiculous as saying "that car model always seems to break down, we can stop it from happening by driving from Seattle to Miami, nonstop".

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6 hours ago, charger_ss24 said:

Have any of you read Bob Feller’s book “little book of baseball”? He talks about this too and believes that pitchers are too muscle bound and the tendons/ligaments can’t handle the torque. He also said he threw every day to keep his arm loose and limber.

He ain’t no doctor, but you didn’t hear about as many injuries back then than you have for many years now. Leads me to believe there’s some truth to his opinion.

Guys back then largely didn't throw nearly as hard, with nearly as much movement, and you didn't have umpteen middle infielders capable of taking you upper deck if you make a single mistake.

I'd also note that looking for fitness advice from genetic freaks like Bob Feller and Nolan Ryan is a recipe for disaster.  It's like asking a lotto winner what they think is the best strategy for accumulating wealth and getting a response like this, "nobody believed in me, but I stuck with picking my numbers every week and by golly here I am today!"  It's survivorship bias at play.  

Edited by Overlord
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4 hours ago, Overlord said:

Guys back then largely didn't throw nearly as hard, with nearly as much movement, and you didn't have umpteen middle infielders capable of taking you upper deck if you make a single mistake.

I'd also note that looking for fitness advice from genetic freaks like Bob Feller and Nolan Ryan is a recipe for disaster.  It's like asking a lotto winner what they think is the best strategy for accumulating wealth and getting a response like this, "nobody believed in me, but I stuck with picking my numbers every week and by golly here I am today!"  It's survivorship bias at play.  

I see your argument but  throwing less to help.pitchers avoid injury is clearly not working.

Also, Feller and Ryan weren't the only pitchers throwing what would today be considered an astronomical amount of pitches/innings. All the stars threw a ton.  Even regular guys like Mark Langston, Frank Viola and David Cone threw quite a bit

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19 minutes ago, Members_Only_76 said:

So glad I drafted Devin Williams right now!!

It's early, but that wasn't pretty.  Contreras almost got decapitated.

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On 4/4/2021 at 9:03 AM, laracco said:

Stacked keeper team is as cold as it gets out of the gates and facing a team that has double the RBI of any other team in the league. I have Tatis, Acuna, Soto, Trea as keepers. My first 5 hitters I picked are: Alonso, Gurriel Jr, Biggio, Moncada and Contreras. 3 have yet to play a game and the one's that have are hitting are 8/53 .150.
2 of my bench players are also out: J. Bell and Schwarber and one guy I've been using to fill in Hayes, is now hurt.
It's a long season, but this is H2H and don't really want to get in a hole early.

And I get Alonso back, only to lose Acuna and now Tatis leaves injured. OMG.

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8 hours ago, RallyRally said:

Own Tatis, Jimenez and Voit in one of my 1-year leagues.

That is all.

Don't leave us hanging, please post the rest of your roster so we can plan for future horrible injuries accordingly.  

Edited by Overlord
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