Jump to content
NBC Sports Edge Forums

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

Obviously AL Only dynasty is not pertinent to a conversation about his 2021 Outlook.

ūü§Ē

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 198
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Sir. Sir. Please reevaluate your life choices as you have somehow arrived at the point where you are on RW defending Tony LaRussa's decision to only give partial playing time to Andrew Vaughn over Nic

He's just over .900 OPS over the last three weeks and over .1100 over the past week.  7 walks against 10 K's over 3 weeks.  Encouraging.

Look it seems like we're each trying to get the last word, rather than obfuscate things, we're both making different arguments.  Redraft you can do better now, dynasty he's still a great asset. Got an RBI double in the 8-run first against double AA pitcher Daniel Lynch so maybe he's riled up.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

Look it seems like we're each trying to get the last word, rather than obfuscate things, we're both making different arguments.  Redraft you can do better now, dynasty he's still a great asset. Got an RBI double in the 8-run first against double AA pitcher Daniel Lynch so maybe he's riled up.

giphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

  • Haha 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, dan said:

And if those guys AREN'T available?

I've got a team in an AL Only dynasty league. In deep leagues like that there's really NOT much available in the free agent player pool. And I KNOW the guy that has Vaughn won't drop him. Lol 

In a shallow redraft league, sure he's droppable. Not all leagues are like that, though. That's all I'm saying.

I’d say the super shallow and super deep leagues are the non-dynasty leagues where you might take him based on your belief in his talent.  In 10 team, you can get someone more proven than Taylor Ward whenever you want.  You can also get someone with better current performance than Vaughn but that is where you have to think about the upside if the switch flips.  Obviously, Richard Kimble would say he doesn’t have the potential for this year but I’m personally not ready to give up just yet.  It is the same issue as Gavin Lux and other young players who are face planting so far this year.

The toughest formats to hold, imo, are leagues like 15 team formats where the waiver talent is less fungible.  Following his first three games, he is hitting .307 so while the counting stats aren’t there he also at least is getting hits pretty regularly over the last two weeks and has a better chance at consistent playing time and better spot in the lineup in the immediate future.

Edited by AHF
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally disagree with some of the perspectives in this thread.  Quoted from Razzball's 2021 fantasy outlook, "Vaughn was a monster in college, owning a .374/.495/.688 slash line with 50 home runs and 35 doubles in 596 career at bats/160 games. As a sophomore in 2018, he slashed .402/.531/.819 and won the Golden Spikes Award. Over the course of his career, he drew substantially more walks (123) than his number of strikeouts (75), which translated to a 16.5 BB% and 10.1 K%."   The dude has enormous upside.  I'd much rather take a flyer on him then some of the other replacement level players on the waiver wire.

For those not paying attention, Vaughn is getting full playing time thanks to the injuries crushing the White sox's.  Since the start of the season, with each game played, his hard hit rate, swinging strike rate, and ground ball rate have improved.  In addition, he's sporting a 93.2 average exit velocity.  I would be trying to find a spot on my roster in every league for that kind of upside especially considering how shallow outfield is this year.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Fwiw that double he hit yesterday is a HR I’m probably 90% of parks. Went down and got under a breaking ball high off the wall. This for those of you looking for signs of a power stroke to come.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jimmymckrack said:

I totally disagree with some of the perspectives in this thread.  Quoted from Razzball's 2021 fantasy outlook, "Vaughn was a monster in college, owning a .374/.495/.688 slash line with 50 home runs and 35 doubles in 596 career at bats/160 games. As a sophomore in 2018, he slashed .402/.531/.819 and won the Golden Spikes Award. Over the course of his career, he drew substantially more walks (123) than his number of strikeouts (75), which translated to a 16.5 BB% and 10.1 K%."   The dude has enormous upside.  I'd much rather take a flyer on him then some of the other replacement level players on the waiver wire.

For those not paying attention, Vaughn is getting full playing time thanks to the injuries crushing the White sox's.  Since the start of the season, with each game played, his hard hit rate, swinging strike rate, and ground ball rate have improved.  In addition, he's sporting a 93.2 average exit velocity.  I would be trying to find a spot on my roster in every league for that kind of upside especially considering how shallow outfield is this year.

A 10% k rate (albeit at lower competition) with that kind of exit velo is a recipe for super stardom.  He will contribute even without power.  I'm stunned that he only has 2 rbis.   I really wish he wasn't getting replaced in tje field and pinch run for every game.   

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, AHF said:

 In 10 team, you can get someone more proven than Taylor Ward whenever you want.  You can also get someone with better current performance than Vaughn but that is where you have to think about the upside if the switch flips.  Obviously, Richard Kimble would say he doesn’t have the potential for this year but I’m personally not ready to give up just yet.  It is the same issue as Gavin Lux and other young players who are face planting so far this year.

That was my main point, not that he doesn't have the potential, but that in most redrafts you should have moved on by now for better production. I agree with everything else, but I don't think the switch will just flip without a little more seasoning in the minors. If he's truly as talented a hitter as expected, then he absolutely could figure it out this year. This type of promotion almost never happens, so it makes him seem like a future legend, sort of the way people were in Vlad Jr.'s corner from the beginning & are now ecstatic for their faith being rewarded. I'm just not all-in on him this year, but Vaughn should be a stud. Part of me wants him to have a mediocre year so he's cheap next year, and I'll grab him everywhere then. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

This type of promotion almost never happens, so it makes him seem like a future legend, sort of the way people were in Vlad Jr.'s corner from the beginning & are now ecstatic for their faith being rewarded. 

If by ‚Äúpromotion‚ÄĚ you mean a player turning the corner during his rookie year, then I don‚Äôt see it as being quite as rare as you do. ¬†It isn‚Äôt only future legends who go from struggling to put up xbh to getting them as the summer months arrive.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/30/2021 at 12:14 PM, swfcdan said:

Don't know why Vaughn is getting all the talk here. Yes he's a top prospect but he's not lifting the ball yet, and has PT issues. If there was only one concern then I'd still be on board.

He's a next year guy for me. I can't see him suddenly mashing homers and playing every day. And if he does it won't be for a few months and you can likely pick him up in any redrafts.

Let me know when he's actually hit a homer to get remotely excited guys! He's a small guy and doesn't seem to have natural loft to his swing right now. I'd rather chase hitters who are actually showing signs of improvement, rather than hoping and praying a top prospect suddenly makes the jump. He also has TLR issues so I'm out on him for now, and if he does start knocking balls out I think he'll be available on the wire in many leagues.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, swfcdan said:

Let me know when he's actually hit a homer to get remotely excited guys! He's a small guy and doesn't seem to have natural loft to his swing right now. I'd rather chase hitters who are actually showing signs of improvement, rather than hoping and praying a top prospect suddenly makes the jump. He also has TLR issues so I'm out on him for now, and if he does start knocking balls out I think he'll be available on the wire in many leagues.

"Natural loft" or not - this kid IS a power hitter & has been his entire career.  I'm certainly not jumping on the pick him up bandwagon, but he will end up being a very good/power hitting batter.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, swfcdan said:

Let me know when he's actually hit a homer to get remotely excited guys! He's a small guy and doesn't seem to have natural loft to his swing right now. I'd rather chase hitters who are actually showing signs of improvement, rather than hoping and praying a top prospect suddenly makes the jump. He also has TLR issues so I'm out on him for now, and if he does start knocking balls out I think he'll be available on the wire in many leagues.

No signs of improvement you say?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It has nothing to do with Vaughn at this point IMO and everything to do w/the fact that people who have hung onto him this long have missed out on players like Adolis Garcia, Cedric Mullins, etc. and feel pot committed now. It makes me seem like I'm railing against him, when in reality I just think things broke against him with Yermin's emergence and the TLR issues you mentioned. His arrow is pointing up with Robert out, so I could see hanging on now if no one is available. But if you're just not even considering the next call-up you're just stubbornly standing on potential and ignoring the results. Trust the process/don't be results oriented are good in theory but not the real life winning strategy. As a semi-pro poker player, I should know. Fantasy baseball and poker strategy are often the same. Patience is rewarded, but so too is aggression. You can make all the arguments about his ROS potential but holding him through the first 5 weeks in any non-dynasty format was a mistake. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, just wanted to add his GB rate has dropped over 10% it was sitting at a little over 50+% earlier in the year. It's now almost at 40%. He's only had 80PAs because of the stupid PT issues and LaRussa. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Dirtywater97 said:

Also, just wanted to add his GB rate has dropped over 10% it was sitting at a little over 50+% earlier in the year. It's now almost at 40%. He's only had 80PAs because of the stupid PT issues and LaRussa. 

People REALLY need to get off the TLR hate train - it's pathetic.  Vaughn's natural position is 1B or DH - they have an MVP candidate playing first and another guy at DH if the season were to end would get MVP votes.

He's now seeing regular time in left - oh!  And production - you actually have to produce to get at-bats as a young player in the majors... something Vaughn still hasn't really done.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IlliniGuy76 said:

People REALLY need to get off the TLR hate train - it's pathetic.  Vaughn's natural position is 1B or DH - they have an MVP candidate playing first and another guy at DH if the season were to end would get MVP votes.

He's now seeing regular time in left - oh!  And production - you actually have to produce to get at-bats as a young player in the majors... something Vaughn still hasn't really done.

Not sure if this a post hating on Vaughn or praising him, haha.

I mean if you drafted him you should of known what you were getting yourself into. He's an elite prospect getting his first taste of majors who skipped ALL of the higher levels of the minors. To not think there would be some sort of initial learning curve is a bit irrational on people's part.

You should of drafted him with patience in mind or not at all IMO considering all the circumstances. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Dirtywater97 said:

Not sure if this a post hating on Vaughn or praising him, haha.

I mean if you drafted him you should of known what you were getting yourself into. He's an elite prospect getting his first taste of majors who skipped ALL of the higher levels of the minors. To not think there would be some sort of initial learning curve is a bit irrational on people's part.

You should of drafted him with patience in mind or not at all IMO considering all the circumstances. 

It's neither to be honest.  My point, more so, is people simply need to get off the TLR hate train especially when it comes to Vaughn.

He was an elite prospect that was going to have issues getting into the lineup consistently due to other players seeing more at-bats.  He wasn't going to see time at first, he wasn't going to see time at left & he potentially may have seen consistent at bats at DH - small problem with the last:  Yermin Mercedes decided to say hello.

Edited by IlliniGuy76
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yeah I still think he really finds his stride later on in the year. Right now he's learning on the fly against advanced competition as well as new position.

If you need production now in shallow league do what you gotta do I guess. Down the line further in the season may regret it, however. It's all team dependent really.

Edited by Dirtywater97
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/9/2021 at 10:21 AM, Richard Kimble said:

That was my main point, not that he doesn't have the potential, but that in most redrafts you should have moved on by now for better production. I agree with everything else, but I don't think the switch will just flip without a little more seasoning in the minors. If he's truly as talented a hitter as expected, then he absolutely could figure it out this year. This type of promotion almost never happens, so it makes him seem like a future legend, sort of the way people were in Vlad Jr.'s corner from the beginning & are now ecstatic for their faith being rewarded. I'm just not all-in on him this year, but Vaughn should be a stud. Part of me wants him to have a mediocre year so he's cheap next year, and I'll grab him everywhere then. 

He does not need any more seasoning. The dude has proven beyond any doubt that he is a major league bat. There is nothing he or the White Sox would gain with him going back to the minors. Look at it more from real life value vs fantasy value.

261/350/364 with elite exit velo, double digit walk rate, <24% k rate, and 0.4 WAR through his first 22 games in MLB. All while learning a new position. And he's also performed measurably better week to week. As someone already mentioned he's getting more loft now than the first few weeks and some of his hard hit balls are flying over the infield rather than into the dirt. Unless you had outsized expectations, this is not the performance of a bust, and certainly not of a player who needs to go back to AAA. He's been a better than average MLB regular, and it's hard to project him not to improve on what he's done so far going forward given his pedigree and lack of real red flags. If the ball was still juiced this wouldn't even be an argument. 3 or 4 of his long flyouts/doubles would have gone out of the park and people would be calling him a league-winner instead of being so worried. Perhaps he only hits 15-20 HR instead of the 25-30 some projected and yeah it's a bummer, but the skillset screams production of one sort or another through the rest of the year. I just can't see a guy with his eye, raw power, and a flippin' 93 mph exit velo not being fantasy useful.

       
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, sleepysock said:

He does not need any more seasoning. The dude has proven beyond any doubt that he is a major league bat. There is nothing he or the White Sox would gain with him going back to the minors. Look at it more from real life value vs fantasy value.

261/350/364 with elite exit velo, double digit walk rate, <24% k rate, and 0.4 WAR through his first 22 games in MLB. All while learning a new position. And he's also performed measurably better week to week. As someone already mentioned he's getting more loft now than the first few weeks and some of his hard hit balls are flying over the infield rather than into the dirt. Unless you had outsized expectations, this is not the performance of a bust, and certainly not of a player who needs to go back to AAA. He's been a better than average MLB regular, and it's hard to project him not to improve on what he's done so far going forward given his pedigree and lack of real red flags. If the ball was still juiced this wouldn't even be an argument. 3 or 4 of his long flyouts/doubles would have gone out of the park and people would be calling him a league-winner instead of being so worried. Perhaps he only hits 15-20 HR instead of the 25-30 some projected and yeah it's a bummer, but the skillset screams production of one sort or another through the rest of the year. I just can't see a guy with his eye, raw power, and a flippin' 93 mph exit velo not being fantasy useful.

       

Totally agree with everything you just said.  Most of the comments in this thread make no sense.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Jimmymckrack said:

Totally agree with everything you just said.  Most of the comments in this thread make no sense.  

Don’t worry, once his next 2 game hitless streak arrives the forum will be sending him to the minors again! Lmao, the hot takes and 20/20 hindsight police are in full effect. Vaughn like patience should be preserved. 

Edited by tucker26
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/8/2021 at 9:26 AM, BadHombre said:

His struggles to begin the season definitely messed with his head, but he's been heating up the last 2/3 weeks. Hard contact included. I think that will translate into HRs fairly soon.

Ahem

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...