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Jonathan India 2021 Outlook


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Has made the roster for the Reds and will be playing second base...

Anything on him, even though he is already rostered in the league I am in...

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9 minutes ago, posty said:

Has made the roster for the Reds and will be playing second base...

Anything on him, even though he is already rostered in the league I am in...

I spent the extra few bucks to grab him last week as I think he's an under-the-radar prospect who will have 2B and 3B eligibility after the first week.  Looking at track record, I'm not sure why he hasn't garnered more excitement other than the current lack of positional flexibility.

Only 24 and the fact that they felt his bat would eventually play at third base tells me that there is room to grow powerwise.  The hit tool looks fairly advanced with pretty good OBP numbers (.370+ in minor league stints) and an 11/11 homer and stolen base split in 2019.  2020 is kind of a black hole player development wise, but the small sample of Spring Training leads me to believe something like 65-75/20/65-75/15/.260 is a reasonably optimistic projection. 

The big concern I have right now is where he bats in the order.  They've been slotting him all the way at the bottom, which really concerns me and will make him borderline unplayable as a starter if it doesn't fix itself soon.  He needs Senzel/Winker/Votto/someone to get hurt or he needs to have a hot start.

Edited by Overlord
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I feel like I'm missing something about India, why he isn't more highly regarded.  I guess it's lack of power and steals, with mediocre defense.  But I think he can do everything else at MLB level with some power upside.

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6 minutes ago, umphrey said:

I feel like I'm missing something about India, why he isn't more highly regarded.  I guess it's lack of power and steals, with mediocre defense.  But I think he can do everything else at MLB level with some power upside.

1.)His late 2019 and all of 2020 were wiped out due to injuries and a pandemic, and since he was a college star he doesn't have nearly the minor league track record that guys who went pro right out of high school have.  He kind of got swallowed up in the black hole of the Covid19 era.

2.)He is only 3B eligible in leagues right now and that depresses the "first glance" perceived value immensely.   Sure, early reports were he would shift over to 2B, but what if Suarez didn't work out at SS?  Anyone who was drafting early didn't want to get stuck with him as a 3B-only prospect whose path to playing time is blocked by a star.  

3.)He has a chance to be good to above-average (for a middle infielder) in all five categories but realistically won't be great in any single one of them.  

4.)He plays for the Reds instead of a team like the Yankees.

5.)He's buried in the lineup right now.  

**I mean, I targeted him in mid-March and paid the few extra bucks for him last week, so obviously I looked beyond the above factors and saw a real opportunity for profit.

Edited by Overlord
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3 minutes ago, umphrey said:

I feel like I'm missing something about India, why he isn't more highly regarded.  I guess it's lack of power and steals, with mediocre defense.  But I think he can do everything else at MLB level with some power upside.

I think he's been somewhat forgotten because he's not a "top" 3b prospect.  His #s play a lot better at 2nd, and if he'd been there in the minors we'd be more excited about them I think.

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4 minutes ago, umphrey said:

I feel like I'm missing something about India, why he isn't more highly regarded.  I guess it's lack of power and steals, with mediocre defense.  But I think he can do everything else at MLB level with some power upside.

I think no MiLB didn’t help guys like him build helium publicly. He could have had a full season to showcase late blooming power like guys like Senzel and Kingery did - if he had a chance to mash AAA Independent League pitching in his age 23 season. 

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8 minutes ago, Heretic said:

I think he's been somewhat forgotten because he's not a "top" 3b prospect.  His #s play a lot better at 2nd, and if he'd been there in the minors we'd be more excited about them I think.

I would have considered him nothing except a $1 roster-filler or a last pick flier if he was projected to be only 3B-eligible, but at second base I considered him one of the two most intriguing prospects for 2021 available (behind only Lux, if you consider Lux a prospect).  

Edited by Overlord
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34 minutes ago, umphrey said:

I feel like I'm missing something about India, why he isn't more highly regarded.  I guess it's lack of power and steals, with mediocre defense.  But I think he can do everything else at MLB level with some power upside.

Yeah I can't understand why there's not more buzz around him.

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2 minutes ago, 2ndCitySox said:

Yeah I can't understand why there's not more buzz around him.

He has college and high draft pick pedigree and has demonstrated improvement in all of these areas from reports out of last years alt training site and his performance on the field in ST. The point is, after all this, how is he not back on everyone’s hype radar?

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2 minutes ago, TheForearmShiver said:

He has college and high draft pick pedigree and has demonstrated improvement in all of these areas from reports out of last years alt training site and his performance on the field in ST. The point is, after all this, how is he not back on everyone’s hype radar?

Yeah I was more of a comment on his post. Wasn't really selling him at all. 

 

He hasn't done anything to really excite in his short MiLB career. 

I think he can be a good one but I understand the lack of wow factor. 

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I think he will be solid player, but not necessarily a big fantasy commodity.   You probably looking at a Tommy Edman like performance, but trading some SBs for a few more HRs as his reasonable upside.

I think he can go .260 16/10 this year.  If he can move his way up the lineup, he should get more RBIs since he should hit a lot of doubles.  He could go crazy and maybe more 20/15, or he could be back in the minors in May if he really scuffs to Kieboom type levels.

I think Cincy sees his bat at being able to hit for just enough average and power to make him at least an average 2B player at this point to give him a real shot.

 

Edited by Hellgrammite
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22 hours ago, Overlord said:

 at second base I considered him one of the two most intriguing prospects for 2021 

Lux not a prospect, agreed, Busch is their next second sacker.

Madrigal 1? Then you have him over at least two of Downs, Gonzalez, and Brujan?

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3 minutes ago, rando said:

Lux not a prospect, agreed, Busch is their next second sacker.

Madrigal 1? Then you have him over at least two of Downs, Gonzalez, and Brujan?

The "for 2021" proviso takes most of those names out of contention, and I'm not a fan of Madrigal.  His skillset makes him the prototypical '20s player .... the 1920s. 

Edited by Overlord
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1 hour ago, strahanfan92 said:

Solid start for India!

Looks like he has a plan and isn't phased by the jump to the majors.

Maybe the low-key/under-the-radar prospect bargain of the year. 

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Personally, I'm not thrilled about his playing time outlook. In order for him to play consistently he either needs an injury or for Suarez to play good enough defense at SS. Suarez has been a disaster so far, and if he doesn't start to hold his own they will shuffle things around, most likely in India losing playing time to no fault of his own.

I'm hoping he sticks but have a backup plan or be ready to move on if necessary. Hopefully he produces enough power to stay in my lineup.

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7 minutes ago, Dark Kn19ht said:

When will he get eligibility for 2B on ESPN?

Based on the ESPN league I am in, states after he plays 2B in 10 games. But other ESPN leagues may have different settings. 

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On 4/9/2021 at 1:16 PM, DarinB300 said:

Based on the ESPN league I am in, states after he plays 2B in 10 games. But other ESPN leagues may have different settings. 

Pretty sure that's not accurate - ESPN has standard settings for position eligibility (which I believe is 10 games started at a position)

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Was just recently given a chump designation by rotobalker I think...not a champ

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  • 2 weeks later...

He was beaned in the head today by Jack Flaherty, who curled into a ball of shame immediately after throwing the pitch. I was watching and it was a scary thing, luckily it didn't go two inches lower because I think he wasn't wearing one of the faceguard helmets.  Anyway, he was rightly PO'd and beating his chest at the Cardinals in anger after, and it led to a massive argument from David Bell after a warning was issued that led to Bell's ejection. India was removed and the reporting is that India has already passed concussion protocols, and he'll likely get a day or two off but his owners will want to watch him closely in the coming days.

I hate to brag but I have hair on par with India, so we are spirit animals. But I'm going to get off the ride with him in some of my fantasy teams where I can find suitable replacements. Yes, it's not an injury or something that is his fault. That said, this could impact his confidence in the box. I think it's an opportune moment to re-assess his performance vs. the early season hype. It took him a while to get that first dinger, and most of the RBIs came in that first week when the Reds were crushing the ball collectively. He's cooled off a ton since, and well, I can still see his usefulness in some leagues, but I also think there are a fair amount of options out there that can still be picked up in his place. I worry he's got a good amount of downside if he gets mired in a slump and stuck to the bottom of the order, and I'm not seeing a ton of upside here.

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