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Confirming what we already knew, but Pomeranz and pagan both pitched in a game the Padres were trailing, but not MM. 

 

remains to be seen how long the leash is

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"Why don't you come over here and say that?!"

I hate closers - I feel like a dog chasing my tail in a circle. 😡

I’ve been watching the Tigers game. Clase was the only one warming up a few days ago when it looked like the Indians might tie or take the lead. Today, Karinchak was the only guy warming up in th

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The longer the wait for the news on Rosenthal probably the worse it is.  No announcement yet.  Probably getting an MRI.

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53 minutes ago, ST. STEVEN said:

I am speculating (like many) on Clase in CLE...he has the stuff and what seems like the demeanor to run with the job.

First off want to say I'm not picking on this post but in general the what I keep seeing about Clase and Karinchak.  Also I am holding both and I think they both could end up being top closers so I'm not coming from a place of rooting for one guy.

 

However, to say he has the stuff and the demeanor to run away with the job how could you not think that about Karinchak even more than Clase?  I've been watching Clase for awhile now and in general he gets about a K/Inning and that's from a large sample from the minor leagues.  To me that doesn't scream "dominant" lights out can't touch him.  I DO however see that with Karinchak who has been 17k/9 guy in the majors in high leverage situations (and at every level of the minors).

It's just when I watch Clase I think he's more like Sixto or Syndergaard.  To the average person viewing from home their stuff looks unhittable and we all get a dopamine jolt when we see a pitch have crazy movement and see the radar gun read 100. With that said, I feel in the batter's box once you see a couple of pitches or even see him a second or third time, his stuff still plays well but not as dominant as it does on TV.  Go watch the Detroit game and you'll see it.  First couple pitches guys were blown away and then they adapt and start making good takes and seeing the ball better.  Karinchak when he's on is unhittable and filthy.  Yes, I get the command issues but when he's on, he's not only better than Clase he's probably better than 99% of the league.

 

For a comparison I think at their best Karinchak is more of a peak Kimbrel and Clase is like a later Mariano Rivera.  Both were top 5 closers with low ERAs and I say it to both as compliments.  I just feel Clase will be more of a weak contact low BA against guy and Karinchak is a overpowering swing and miss guy.  Both have potential to save 40 but I personally give the edge to Karinchak.  It's fine if you lean Clase I have no problem with that argument but to say he's got the stuff and demeanor as if Karinchak does not while he's more proven seems a bit ignorant to me.

 

Edit:  For the record I do think Clase has the edge on the closers role in Cleveland, but that's Tito's decision.  It reminds me of when Andrew Miller was pitching the highest leverage situations getting the whiffs and Cody Allen was the closer.  Miller was the better pitcher but Allen got the 9th regardless.

Edited by Wytchclt55
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4 minutes ago, Wytchclt55 said:

First off want to say I'm not picking on this post but in general the what I keep seeing about Clase and Karinchak.  Also I am holding both and I think they both could end up being top closers so I'm not coming from a place of rooting for one guy.

 

However, to say he has the stuff and the demeanor to run away with the job how could you not think that about Karinchak even more than Clase?  I've been watching Clase for awhile now and in general he gets about a K/Inning and that's from a large sample from the minor leagues.  To me that doesn't scream "dominant" lights out can't touch him.  I DO however see that with Karinchak who has been 17k/9 guy in the majors in high leverage situations (and at every level of the minors).

It's just when I watch Clase I think he's more like Sixto or Syndergaard.  To the average person viewing from home their stuff looks unhittable and we all get a dopamine jolt when we see a pitch have crazy movement and see the radar gun read 100. With that said, I feel in the batter's box once you see a couple of pitches or even see him a second or third time, his stuff still plays well but not as dominant as it does on TV.  Go watch the Detroit game and you'll see it.  First couple pitches guys were blown away and then they adapt and start making good takes and seeing the ball better.  Karinchak when he's on is unhittable and filthy.  Yes, I get the command issues but when he's on, he's not only better than Clase he's probably better than 99% of the league.

 

For a comparison I think at their best Karinchak is more of a peak Kimbrel and Clase is like a later Mariano Rivera.  Both were top 5 closers with low ERAs and I say it to both as compliments.  I just feel Clase will be more of a weak contact low BA against guy and Karinchak is a overpowering swing and miss guy.  Both have potential to save 40 but I personally give the edge to Karinchak.  It's fine if you lean Clase I have no problem with that argument but to say he's got the stuff and demeanor as if Karinchak does not while he's more proven seems a bit ignorant to me.

Great post and I agree with Karinchak having better pure stuff even though Clase throws harder. I think the fact that Karinchak has the higher strikeout upside is the very reason Tito has hinted about keeping him in the fireman role. Both of them have the tools to be highly successful MLB late inning relievers, all that really matters to us is how Tito deploys them.

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Isn't Karinchak 3 years older than Clase?

It's very tricky to compare young players when there is that kind of age gap.  At the age that Clase was on an MLB roster Karinchak was in Single-A ball.  Just as Karinchak developed and his K-rate increased from year to year, I expect Clase to do the same over the next few seasons.  

This is not a slight on Karinchak, who I believe is the better reliever at the moment and probably for the next few seasons, just saying that even a few years can make a huge difference.  It's why foreign-born players like Albert Pujols lie about their ages in order to make themselves appear to be more attractive as prospects.

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For leagues where even most 7th inning guys are owned, I'm trying to figure out who the darkhorse is in Seattle. Middleton looks to have pitched late in games as well as Casey Sadler. Not the greatest team for saves, and Montero may just hold it all year but it seems to be a job that might be available with no sexy names to grab, so they're available. 

 

Sadler had a 9:1 K:B in 4.2 innings in spring and struck out two in his first inning this year in which he allowed no baserunners. Seems like every year there's a 30 year old RP or two that figure something out and take a big step forward. Am I crazy?

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2 hours ago, rotoguy74 said:

 

My bad that is what I meant. Is Graveman next in line behind Montero?

Graveman has looked electric to start the year, not a bad speculative wait and see add if you can find the roster spot for it.

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2 minutes ago, fawkes_mulder said:

pressly in the 8th in a tie game, might be a 6 out situation, hasn't been used much

Hoping this is the case. Or maybe they wanted to make sure he was in the game if Trout got the plate with a runner on, which is currently the situation. Still mildly concerning.

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17 hours ago, fawkes_mulder said:

Bad take, raisel has been getting heavy usage. Just a day off.

 

17 hours ago, fawkes_mulder said:

This is just wishful thinking, threw 30 pitches last night and 3 of his last 4 before tonight...outside of Liam Hendricks, Josh Hader, and Aroldis Chapman, he’s got the longest leash of any other closer in the MLB...a throwing error yesterday in a game they won won’t change that.

 

17 hours ago, Magoo said:

He’s thrown as good as he ever has. Fielding another story. 
 

One of the most secure closers in the league lol

These aged well

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4 minutes ago, stay_woke said:

 

 

These aged well

they're still true...i'll bet you 500 bones that raisel still the closer. If you accept, take it to PM. An April 6 blown save does nothing here.

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