Jump to content
NBC Sports Edge Forums

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

"Why don't you come over here and say that?!"

I hate closers - I feel like a dog chasing my tail in a circle. 😡

I’ve been watching the Tigers game. Clase was the only one warming up a few days ago when it looked like the Indians might tie or take the lead. Today, Karinchak was the only guy warming up in th

Posted Images

Daniel Bard blew another one last night but at least vultured the win.

Am I really the only hapless, sad sack Bard owner in this thread? No one else is trying to figure out the Rockies' closer situation.

Anyway, Mychal Givens has been better this year and actually has 21 career saves from his Oriole days compared to Bard's 13.

Just about the only RP who hasn't been better than Bard is the guy who got the save last night, Carlos Estevez.

I'd say it's DEFCON 3 maybe even 2.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sasnumberonefan said:

Point still stands about him being shaky recently, save situation or not..

Rogers has pitched much better then Mcgee lately. Kapler is the manger so who knows what he will do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, B&F said:

Dolis in the game with a 5 run lead?  Welcome back to the closer role Romano.

It was a four-run lead and that is a heck of a leap. Dolis didn't pitch Monday, but would be available today and he is guaranteed a rest Thursday because the Blue Jays are off. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fiveohnine said:

Daniel Bard blew another one last night but at least vultured the win.

Am I really the only hapless, sad sack Bard owner in this thread? No one else is trying to figure out the Rockies' closer situation.

Anyway, Mychal Givens has been better this year and actually has 21 career saves from his Oriole days compared to Bard's 13.

Just about the only RP who hasn't been better than Bard is the guy who got the save last night, Carlos Estevez.

I'd say it's DEFCON 3 maybe even 2.

Bard should remain in that role despite some of these bad outings. A solo HR isn't going to lose him the job, either, its not like he walked the tying run in. Don't see much need for anxiety, this is exactly what you signed up for. No one cares about the Rockies situation as you mentioned, so if a switch happens you'll have no trouble adding Givens. Despite his bad early numbers, Bard has safety in his role due to the fact the Rockies aren't going anywhere. If he goes out and nails down his next few opportunities he's fine. He's not going to help your ratios, but he won't continue to be this bad. I still prefer him over the various committee situations for his relative safety and lack of competition.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Words said:

It was a four-run lead and that is a heck of a leap. Dolis didn't pitch Monday, but would be available today and he is guaranteed a rest Thursday because the Blue Jays are off. 

 That is plausible. 

Stop trying to ruin my wishful thinking! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, LarryDavid said:

Anyone that says the Reds bullpen is “clear”.. I just can’t take a single word they say seriously after that 😂. I know Sims and Antone threw last night, I was watching. But there is nothing clear about how they are handling the end of the games right now, regardless of who threw the night before.
 

I think Antone is going to be kept to multiple innings and Amir has just been too ugly. Sims has the best stuff.. but my current “closer” guess with all things equal would be Doo doo right this second 

You guys are fantasizing about Antone, and in my opinion they just clearly have wanted Doolittle the veteran to stabilize things at the back end. It's probably the right call at this point in the season, as Sims is a weapon they should deploy in the highest leverage spots, and despite all the slagging off, they need to get Garrett right and return him to that 7th inning role where he's had success before. There's too much pressure in the 9th for a head case like Amir or a young guy like Sims. I could see Antone taking over the role much later in the year if they're in the thick of the race, but I think they'll try to give Doolittle some rope to establish himself, and if he falters, they may yet look to bring someone in from outside. They view Antone as a starter next season and as insurance this year, and I don't see him pitching back to back days for this reason. Even if you still want to argue for Sims' talent proving out, its hard to see him as head of the committee right now. Opportunity has knocked for Doolittle.

Edited by Richard Kimble
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

You guys are fantasizing about Antone, and in my opinion they just clearly have wanted Doolittle the veteran to stabilize things at the back end. It's probably the right call at this point in the season, as Sims is a weapon they should deploy in the highest leverage spots, and despite all the slagging off, they need to get Garrett right and return him to that 7th inning role where he's had success before. There's too much pressure in the 9th for a head case like Amir or a young guy like Sims. I could see Antone taking over the role much later in the year if they're in the thick of the race, but I think they'll try to give Doolittle some rope to establish himself, and if he falters, they may yet look to bring someone in from outside. They view Antone as a starter next season and as insurance this year, and I don't see him pitching back to back days for this reason. Even if you still want to argue for Sims' talent proving out, its hard to see him as head of the committee right now. Opportunity has knocked for Doolittle.

Agree on Antone.  I do think he’ll get a hand full of multi inning saves over the course of the year but there’s no way he becomes “the guy” because he’s gonna be throwing 40-50 pitches limiting the number of outings he has.  So even though he could throw 100ish innings his appearances won’t be that high

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

, WRT Doolittle:  how many times have we seen a mid thirties former closer with plenty of experience come off of a bad season, end up as the closer over the younger flamethrowers?  Seems to happen like 3 or 4 times a season.  It might be Doolittle, it just as well migjt not, but of you've got the room and a replaceable drop what do you have to lose?

* side note on Doolittle,  he was throwing 91 last season and is up to 96/97 this season.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Doolittle whip is over 1.5..,expect fireworks

Link to post
Share on other sites

To recap the last few pages on the Reds bullpen: “the guy I own is clearly the best bet for saves in Cincinnati because I watch a lot of Reds games and I am totally in tune with David Bell’s mindset.”

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Doolittle is NOT the top guy in line for saves right now.  I have no idea how you can say this when the Reds have never used him for a save situation except for yesterday... and that was when Sims and Antone were literally unavailable because they couldn't pitch.  If you want a clear sign, actually look at a real high leverage situation which was two days ago, in which ALL pitchers were available.  They went Sims->Antone.  He thinks that Sims or Antone are better pitchers.  And i don't blame him, because they are better pitchers.  

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

You guys are fantasizing about Antone, and in my opinion they just clearly have wanted Doolittle the veteran to stabilize things at the back end. It's probably the right call at this point in the season, as Sims is a weapon they should deploy in the highest leverage spots, and despite all the slagging off, they need to get Garrett right and return him to that 7th inning role where he's had success before. There's too much pressure in the 9th for a head case like Amir or a young guy like Sims. I could see Antone taking over the role much later in the year if they're in the thick of the race, but I think they'll try to give Doolittle some rope to establish himself, and if he falters, they may yet look to bring someone in from outside. They view Antone as a starter next season and as insurance this year, and I don't see him pitching back to back days for this reason. Even if you still want to argue for Sims' talent proving out, its hard to see him as head of the committee right now. Opportunity has knocked for Doolittle.

Sims isn't that young...he's about to turn 27 and is in his 5th year in the Majors. So I don't really get the part about the 9th being too much pressure for him because of his youth. 

That said, this bullpen is anyone's guess right now. With no shares of this pen, if I had to put my chip on one of them, it would be Sims. Garrett just doesn't have the head for it, imo. Antone isn't going to be limited to a one-inning role. Doolittle has not been good this year even with his velo up, and I have a hard time seeing the magic come back at 34. Sims hasn't been stellar, but the stat that is crazy to me is that he's put nine runners on base (3 hits, 4 walks, 2 hbp)...and seven of those have scored. If that normalizes for Sims, he would seem to be the best option. But thats jmho, and I have no clue what is going on in the mind of Bell. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Fbaseballgod said:

Doolittle is NOT the top guy in line for saves right now.  I have no idea how you can say this when the Reds have never used him for a save situation except for yesterday... and that was when Sims and Antone were literally unavailable because they couldn't pitch.  If you want a clear sign, actually look at a real high leverage situation which was two days ago, in which ALL pitchers were available.  They went Sims->Antone.  He thinks that Sims or Antone are better pitchers.  And i don't blame him, because they are better pitchers.  

Not to disagree with anything you said, but last night could be the game that makes Bell believe Doolittle could be his best 9th inning option. Maybe it wasn't the case up until then, but last night Doolittle came in and pitched a clean inning against Seager, Turner, and Muncy with a K and a couple of pop-ups. Sometimes it just takes one game to propel someone into a role...or to encourage the manager to give that player another shot in that same role. The chances of Doolittle running with it if Bell does give him a chance? Eh...probably not great, but stranger things have happened. Bell could determine that Garrett is best in a 6th-7th inning role and that Sims and Antone are his two best guys to put out fires, keep leads, or keep deficits manageable (because they're better pitchers)...leaving Doolittle as the guy closing leads out in the 9th. 

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying "what if" last night becomes the catalyst for defining the roles in the bullpen? Just an alternative view that, admittedly, could be totally off. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Fbaseballgod said:

Doolittle is NOT the top guy in line for saves right now.  I have no idea how you can say this when the Reds have never used him for a save situation except for yesterday... and that was when Sims and Antone were literally unavailable because they couldn't pitch.  If you want a clear sign, actually look at a real high leverage situation which was two days ago, in which ALL pitchers were available.  They went Sims->Antone.  He thinks that Sims or Antone are better pitchers.  And i don't blame him, because they are better pitchers.  

Take a chill pill buddy. Like you said, Dr. Doolittle just got the save yesterday.. so whatever reasoning you have against, that is still enough for some to think he could be the fill in guy currently. Either way this bullpen is a shitshow right now. Anyone that has read the last couple pages knows who you own, and the rest of us have taken our guess (even though I am still not adding Doo doo baby). Best part about is.. we should find out. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LarryDavid said:

Take a chill pill buddy. Like you said, Dr. Doolittle just got the save yesterday.. so whatever reasoning you have against, that is still enough for some to think he could be the fill in guy currently. Either way this bullpen is a shitshow right now. Anyone that has read the last couple pages knows who you own, and the rest of us have taken our guess (even though I am still not adding Doo doo baby). Best part about is.. we should find out. 

 

The save yesterday is irrelevant because Sims and Antone weren't available..  You say he could be the "fill in guy" but unless you mean "fill in when Antone and Sims are unvailable" which I assume isn't useful to most of us.    Unless want to argue like Flyman is that this outing alone propelled him into his manager's trust, which I guess is possible.  But yesterday's save from Doolittle does not indicate that he is Bell's guy from a "who did Bell trust" perspective.   And fwiw, I don't own any of them in any of my saves only leagues, so I don't have some hidden bias to make them seem to be closer worthy, or whatever you were insinuating right now.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Fbaseballgod said:

The save yesterday is irrelevant because Sims and Antone weren't available..  You say he could be the "fill in guy" but unless you mean "fill in when Antone and Sims are unvailable" which I assume isn't useful to most of us.    Unless want to argue like Flyman is that this outing alone propelled him into his manager's trust, which I guess is possible.  But yesterday's save from Doolittle does not indicate that he is Bell's guy from a "who did Bell trust" perspective.   And fwiw, I don't own any of them in any of my saves only leagues, so I don't have some hidden bias to make them seem to be closer worthy, or whatever you were insinuating right now.  

 

Only thing I am insinuating is that you are WAY to invested in this ugly bullpen. Just like you are saying some are taking way too much from one game... you are doing the exact same thing with Antone/Sims. There was a lot of factors to two games ago, they were up going into the 7th.. that is when they brought in Sims. When he gave it up... that tied the game and that is when Antone came in for multiple innings. Who is to say if they kept the lead going into the 9th, Doolittle wouldn't have closed that? It just helped that it went extra innings and you already had your RP going that is a multiple inning guy 

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Fbaseballgod said:

Doolittle is NOT the top guy in line for saves right now.  I have no idea how you can say this when the Reds have never used him for a save situation except for yesterday... and that was when Sims and Antone were literally unavailable because they couldn't pitch.  If you want a clear sign, actually look at a real high leverage situation which was two days ago, in which ALL pitchers were available.  They went Sims->Antone.  He thinks that Sims or Antone are better pitchers.  And i don't blame him, because they are better pitchers.  

"Best guy in the pen = closer"  is an antiquated notion.  2016 Andrew Miller comes to mind amongst so,so many other examples.  I don't think anyone here is stoked to own Doolittle,  but it's hard to argue that he's at least a blind dart throw.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Flyman75 said:

Sims isn't that young...he's about to turn 27 and is in his 5th year in the Majors. So I don't really get the part about the 9th being too much pressure for him because of his youth. 

That said, this bullpen is anyone's guess right now. With no shares of this pen, if I had to put my chip on one of them, it would be Sims. Garrett just doesn't have the head for it, imo. Antone isn't going to be limited to a one-inning role. Doolittle has not been good this year even with his velo up, and I have a hard time seeing the magic come back at 34. Sims hasn't been stellar, but the stat that is crazy to me is that he's put nine runners on base (3 hits, 4 walks, 2 hbp)...and seven of those have scored. If that normalizes for Sims, he would seem to be the best option. But thats jmho, and I have no clue what is going on in the mind of Bell. 

This is what I see. If they stop bringing in Garrett after Sims it should normalize! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Cesare13 said:

"Best guy in the pen = closer"  is an antiquated notion.  2016 Andrew Miller comes to mind amongst so,so many other examples.  I don't think anyone here is stoked to own Doolittle,  but it's hard to argue that he's at least a blind dart throw.

The manager leaning on the guy who has done it before is a real thing. I love the mental makeup of Sims, him tossing away numerous balls from the ump in horrible rain conditions is my favorite moment thus far in 2021. I meant more that the pressure of mishandling the 9th falls less harshly on all involved when a guy like Doolittle fails. The fans and media won't come down too hard on Bell or Doo if he falters at this moment early in the season.

Non-baseball related on Doolittle, he has good recognition for his work with failing bookstores. The beard, and goggles, the guy has the whole package. Sims is appealing for fans too. I consider things like this in the context of an organization like Cincy, which seems to value flashy players at times. They're not using Moneyball to judge evaluate their players. Putting Sims in that high leverage 8th role gives him the chance to show his stuff and be really ready to step into the closer gig when its necessary.

I'm not predicting that Doolittle keeps this gig, just that he'll get more of the next opportunities and could run off a streak of saves to settle the debate for the moment. I feel like we'll be having this similar debate inside of a week when Joakim Soria comes off the DL for AZ, and no one is excited to add him, but will have to admit he'll have a better chance at saves than JB Buk-Ican'tspellit... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, dod959 said:

Cole Sulser is the new Kirby Yates. Just needs Valdez to go away. 

I have no idea what this even means...

are we talking about the orioles bullpen guy who had an 5.56 ERA and 1.50 WHIP last year with almost the exact same amount of walks as he did strikeouts?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I love these threads when there's a truly hotly debated clusterf***.

The combination of small sample size projection (by necessity, these guys don't pitch a lot of innings), pop psychology and detective work on the veracity of beat writers is just the tops.

I like Antone to come out of it despite their desire to stretch him out and am totally guessing, because the rest of them based on my scientific observations appear to blow chunks this year and are untrustworthy.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, ASHLANDARROWS1992 said:

I have no idea what this even means...

are we talking about the orioles bullpen guy who had an 5.56 ERA and 1.50 WHIP last year with almost the exact same amount of walks as he did strikeouts?

The year he was hurt? Correct. Have you seen him pitch this year? 

Edited by dod959
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...