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Is this the end of fantasy basketball? Injuries, COVID, Load Management


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I don't understand why any basketball player under 30 needs rest when a game is taking place. The rest is for the off days a game is not scheduled. I just do not understand how this became the norm.

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I would like to switch over completely to roto, but it was hard to find pro leagues or money leagues that were not head to head.  I could never even find roto pro leagues that were filled up and ready to draft.  Traditional 9 cat roto is the simple answer.  I feel like the portion of people who play roto is low, its hard to find a solid league.  

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28 minutes ago, RealityBasketball said:

I would like to switch over completely to roto, but it was hard to find pro leagues or money leagues that were not head to head.  I could never even find roto pro leagues that were filled up and ready to draft.  Traditional 9 cat roto is the simple answer.  I feel like the portion of people who play roto is low, its hard to find a solid league.  

Cause it’s boring as **** h2h is fun between friends 

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46 minutes ago, molski said:

I don't understand why any basketball player under 30 needs rest when a game is taking place. The rest is for the off days a game is not scheduled. I just do not understand how this became the norm.

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1 hour ago, molski said:

I don't understand why any basketball player under 30 needs rest when a game is taking place. The rest is for the off days a game is not scheduled. I just do not understand how this became the norm.

simpy said.. because they can!

there is absolutely no backlash for a player being "rested". absolutely none! yes, it's forbidden to call them officialy "rest days", but its easy to switch it to "soreness".

you probably wouldn't go to work either if you could get paid the same for staying at home. there are no consequences

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2 hours ago, molski said:

I don't understand why any basketball player under 30 needs rest when a game is taking place. The rest is for the off days a game is not scheduled. I just do not understand how this became the norm.

 

It's like owning a car. If you owe a Toyota Camry, you don't give a crap about waxing it, accessorizing it, or customizing it. It's just a piece of metal that gets you from point A to point B. If you own a Tesla, however, you are washing it every day and buying all types of accessories for it. NBA players' salaries have become so high that as an owner/team you just have to protect your investment. 

I personally won't give a crap about load management if I was a small market team. Your players will just leave you for LA/NY if they develop into superstars anyways. I'd just play them 40 minutes every game and never load manage them. Your players look good cause their stats are pumped. You look good cause you become a team known to develop players well. After 7 years (rookie contract + first extension), your young player is a superstar and wants to join a superteam in a big city, you play him 45 mins a game that year so you get maximum return for him, and he tears his ACL and Achillies one month after the trade.

Edited by bballshinobi
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Teams and coaches (Pop) have also realized that the regular season barely means anything, so why push your guys for most of the year when you can keep them rested for the playoffs? Either that or you’re out of contention so same thing. The problem is the format of the NBA season, too long and too many teams make the playoffs. The league isn’t sacrificing money by cutting the number of games, so there needs to be a more creative solution. There was talk of a mid season FA Cup type tournament but I’m not sure I see it catching on. 

Edited by CuredMeats
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19 hours ago, EsTiLO said:

With all these injuries and high profiled players sitting out for rest (load managing), is playing fantasy basketball even worth it anymore? There's players that are kinda banged up but instead of playing through it they just sit down. Then you have players that are just resting just because they want to. It's been a frustrating year because alot of NBA players are not taking the regular season very serious. Thoughts?

You are a brave soul. I said almost the exact thing at the beginning of the season and got murdered by RW. 
 

I see that people still have not changed their mind. But fwiw, I agree with you. And I also agree that I can see me keep playing because at this point it is more of a habit instead of a hobby. 

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7 hours ago, RealityBasketball said:

I would like to switch over completely to roto, but it was hard to find pro leagues or money leagues that were not head to head.  I could never even find roto pro leagues that were filled up and ready to draft.  Traditional 9 cat roto is the simple answer.  I feel like the portion of people who play roto is low, its hard to find a solid league.  

I'll make two threads in the off-season for Rotoworld Rotisserie Money League. The first thread is always a mock draft, then the second one is the real league. A few years straight it's been fun. It wasn't one this year because amist of COVID. 

It's nothing better than competing with other ppl on here. Everyone knows the players, can't get over on a newbie, etc...

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One thing my league did to start the season is add a 3rd IL spot. It took the edge off, for sure.

Another thing I did was very consciously avoid injury risk and older vets. No Kawhi or KD or Kyrie, etc. No guys "coming back in a minute" or anything like that in the draft for me. I also skewed toward rooks and first and 2nd year players in the draft.

All this helped deal with the chaos. It's not over yet, but I think the lesson is that we have to change our tactics to keep enjoying fantasy hoops.

The game has changed. So should we.

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1 hour ago, hornrimmed_rambis said:

One thing my league did to start the season is add a 3rd IL spot. It took the edge off, for sure.

Ditto.  Definitely helped.  The IL+ spot was created by Yahoo mid-season and I made the tough and controversial decision (or rather, my leagues voted to include it) to implement it.  For my leagues going forward, it's going to be standard to have an IL and an IL+ spot.

1 hour ago, hornrimmed_rambis said:

Another thing I did was very consciously avoid injury risk and older vets. No Kawhi or KD or Kyrie, etc. No guys "coming back in a minute" or anything like that in the draft for me. I also skewed toward rooks and first and 2nd year players in the draft.

I think that's fairly common knowledge for fantasy vets.  However, injuries are obviously risky - it's a gamble either way.  Not because injuries happen to injury-prone players, but because sometimes injuries DON'T happen to them, or injuries happen to relatively healthy players. 

Harden was a fairly reliable fantasy player who contributed in a ton of cats and was known to play through injuries as well as shutdowns (in the last 6-7 years, he's missed an average of like, 4-5 games per season) ... until he got traded this year and began going to strip clubs and birthday parties missing games.  KAT used to be an ironman, rarely, if ever, missing games.  Now, he's likely on many disgruntled owners' DnD list.  Same with Drummond (though he basically sat out a good chunk of the season waiting for the trade deadline).

On the flip side, you've got old guys like Lebron and CP3 who continue to play at a high level for their teams and were available to play for their teams; until Lebron's injury, he seemed like he'd shrug off load management.  Zack and Zion both had some huge injury flags, but they're both playing in most of their games (again, Zion's sidelined with a minor injury now and Zack just missed a game or two).  Kawhi and Embiid began this year to play in B2Bs ... 

I guess I'd liken risk in fantasy to that in any gambling game of skill, like poker.  You always have to take a risk, but those risks would be calculated.  Aforementioned guys like Embiid or AD or KD would be like going all-in; high-risk, high-reward.  It'd be closer to gambling, but it's certainly a viable fantasy playstyle (with reasonable caveats). Guys like Joker or Dame would be more stable, safer picks with a history of reliability and no real weaknesses.  Either way, you'd know the risks going in and you'd be responsible for your choices.   

I think the biggest problem this year was the pandemic itself.  You never knew who was going to play early on, leading to historically healthy players missing games even if they were healthy.  Your player could be healthy, but be "suspected" of being positive due to contact, leading the dreaded "health and safety protocols" tagline.  Your player could be healthy, but your players' teammates could be suspected of being positive due to contact, and the game itself could be PPD.  Heck, your player AND your team could be healthy, but your players' opposing teams' players (or player) could be suspected of being positive, resulting in another game PPD.  Early on, we didn't have a remedy for this (now it's the IL+ spot), and even now, players with PPD games aren't eligible for the IL+ spot.  Pride aside, I've been a fairly consistent Top 3 finisher in my 12-team leagues for the last decade or so. With the pandemic, in all or many of my leagues, I'm fighting for my playoff life this year.  I don't think it's a coincidence. (Disclaimer - I don't pretend to be a fantasy expert or mean to make excuses, lol ...)

To use the previous line of analogy, the pandemic turned fantasy into a gambling game of chance, like roulette or lottery.  It's totally random how the pandemic would affect players.  You could lose your entire lineup for a day because the games would all get canceled, and lose to an inferior or far less intelligent owner.  And unlike injuries, which you could predict (as in research any given player's injury history) or mitigate (as in move them to the IL and stream), or prepare for (as in you'd know an injured player's general timetable) the pandemic would lock out players, even healthy ones, for undetermined amounts of time.  When you're a skilled fantasy player, the last thing you want is additional uncertainty.  The pandemic presented that new, unknown experience.  While we've coped with it the best we could, this isn't something we could've really anticipated this season.

As far as adjusting ... I think this season presented new challenges, but I also think, because the pandemic will pass (I'm not gonna get into THAT argument), we'll go more or less back into fantasy basics.  I'm not saying we won't change or adapt.  But I'm saying some of those circumstances or factors that made us do so may no longer be present in the following years for fantasy, thank god.

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The salaries are so high now that even  an average player get paid so much and I think they lose motivation/interest. It seems a lot of players now only try hard when its their contract year or something. What more when you get paid like a superstar. I guess its also true that this generation is the softest era of basketball and probably the worst in a while. I dont enjoy most of the games and i only watch for fantasy purposes most of the time. Adam silver as a commisioner doesnt help much imo regarding the blatant rest/phantom injuries. Atleast Stern made it look like hes against it. 

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Posted (edited)

Case in point, Mason Plumlee & Wayne Ellington are both getting a rest day today. Why ? The Pistons didn’t play yesterday. If they’re healthy to play and aren’t recovering from an injury , why in the hell do you need a rest day. It’s ridiculous to me.

Edited by EsTiLO
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21 hours ago, RealityBasketball said:

I would like to switch over completely to roto, but it was hard to find pro leagues or money leagues that were not head to head.  I could never even find roto pro leagues that were filled up and ready to draft.  Traditional 9 cat roto is the simple answer.  I feel like the portion of people who play roto is low, its hard to find a solid league.  

Roto gets really boring past the halfway point. A lot of teams pretty much just give up because they have no way of catching up and winning. Sometimes you'll know who the winner is like 3-4 weeks out and that just takes all the fun out of it. I used to play a lot of roto before switching H2H and could never go back now

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14 minutes ago, fabrar said:

Roto gets really boring past the halfway point. A lot of teams pretty much just give up because they have no way of catching up and winning. Sometimes you'll know who the winner is like 3-4 weeks out and that just takes all the fun out of it. I used to play a lot of roto before switching H2H and could never go back now

For me it's the other way around. Made the switch from H2H to Roto 7 years ago and never looked back. 

You play the long game in roto, rather than dealing with all the randomness in H2H, which I like. Sure, this season still impacts your team in roto but you can strategize a lot better for minimal impact.  To each his own I guess, but once I played my first roto league I was hooked.

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We have been using the IR+ feature for like 10 years now.  Expanded roster sizes to 18 and lowered the amount of guys starting. We only start 5 guys and only play on days where the NBA plays 7 or more games. Also we just do daily matchups instead of weekly.  Haven’t had any problems at all. So instead of playing whatever 20 weeks(20 matchups) we actually play 82 H2H games(matchups) along with two 5 game playoff series and a 7 game championship series.  This format, which coincidently was the first format I played in and really the only format in the early 80’s, takes out all the problems.  This takes out soo much luck and removes all player issues with sitting resting etc..  

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1 hour ago, Bugs bunny said:

We have been using the IR+ feature for like 10 years now.  Expanded roster sizes to 18 and lowered the amount of guys starting. We only start 5 guys and only play on days where the NBA plays 7 or more games. Also we just do daily matchups instead of weekly.  Haven’t had any problems at all. So instead of playing whatever 20 weeks(20 matchups) we actually play 82 H2H games(matchups) along with two 5 game playoff series and a 7 game championship series.  This format, which coincidently was the first format I played in and really the only format in the early 80’s, takes out all the problems.  This takes out soo much luck and removes all player issues with sitting resting etc..  

This is nice, i can definitely see myself playing in a league settings like said above.

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5 hours ago, EsTiLO said:

Case in point, Mason Plumlee & Wayne Ellington are both getting a rest day today. Why ? The Pistons didn’t play yesterday. If they’re healthy to play and aren’t recovering from an injury , why in the hell do you need a rest day. It’s ridiculous to me.

 

and apparently jarret allen got hit by a bus during the lakers game.

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I was totally expecting the season to play out the way it did so I avoided drafting any first round guys in my auction money leagues. I figured depth would play a huge role because I knew there would be alot of missed games this year, so I built my teams around 2nd round bargains instead like Vucevic, Vanvleet, Kyrie, and I also hit big with Myles Turner. I'm on pace to finish in top 2 in 3 of my 4 money leagues so my strategy worked out great.

I will say however that it was time consuming and frustrating managing all these teams due to soooo many missed games. I also only play roto. H2h must've been so frustrating to play this year, that's for sure.

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On 4/5/2021 at 12:32 PM, Bugs bunny said:

We have been using the IR+ feature for like 10 years now.  Expanded roster sizes to 18 and lowered the amount of guys starting. We only start 5 guys and only play on days where the NBA plays 7 or more games. Also we just do daily matchups instead of weekly.  Haven’t had any problems at all. So instead of playing whatever 20 weeks(20 matchups) we actually play 82 H2H games(matchups) along with two 5 game playoff series and a 7 game championship series.  This format, which coincidently was the first format I played in and really the only format in the early 80’s, takes out all the problems.  This takes out soo much luck and removes all player issues with sitting resting etc..  

On yahoo? How do you adjust it to play on days with 7 or more games only?

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Just now, DonutGiveUp said:

On yahoo? How do you adjust it to play on days with 7 or more games only?

Fantrax. 

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