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MORA Jr.: "He's the unknown. He didn't play a lot. He only had 17 starts. The talent is undeniable. The ability to throw the ball, his size, his stature, the production when he does play -- all those things are obvious. They're not in dispute.

 

What's in dispute is the number of games that he has played and the sample size you're evaluating. He's a projection. He will be best served going to a team where he can sit and learn. That doesn't happen a lot in the NFL. Now listen, if the 49ers draft him and Jimmy Garoppolo stays and he can sit behind Jimmy and learn, then that's probably a good thing for him.

"But to me, it's a scary pick. These coaches, they're going to go to the workout and see him throw on air, throw with accuracy and strength and timing and touch and become very enamored, but do they have to enough film to truly project whether he can be a franchise quarterback? That's a decision every franchise is going to have to make for themselves. I can't sit here and tell you that everybody thinks the same way. I think some have great conviction that this can be the guy, and there are some that go, 'Man, I don't know.' And if there's a little bit of, 'Man, I don't know,' you don't take a guy that high. If there's any hesitation, you pass."
 

Q: Lance seems like the kind of quarterback that scouts would like because you project his potential. But I've talked to lots of coaches who say, 'Potential gets you fired.'

MORA Jr.: "Absolutely. There are studies out there about guys who have come into the league with minimal amounts of starts, and what their success ratio is when they come into the NFL, and it's not a great success ratio. There's some hesitation there for me. But I have so much confidence in John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan that if Lance is the pick, I'm going to say they know a hell of a lot more than me. They did their research. So I will say that was the right pick, because it's the pick they have conviction about, and they know more than any of us. They know things about these guys that you and I could never imagine."

Q: Lance certainly lacks experience, but does the fact he played at North Dakota State, and ran a pro-style offense, and had autonomy at the line of scrimmage to make decisions, and the fact that he didn't turn the ball over -- are those things that intrigue you about him?

MORA Jr.: "Yeah, without a doubt. You look at his TD to INT ratio. Does he take a sack or does he throw it away and live to play another down? Is he a winner? What kind of offense was he in? Who's coaching him now in the offseason? How much progress has he made since he has been working with this coach? Those are things that can give you a lot of confidence when you're making the pick. And again, I have so much confidence in Kyle and John, rather than being skeptical of the pick, I would say, 'Boy, they knew something I didn't know.'"
 

 

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He'll disappear into the depths of the internet, like some kind of Cybernetic Ghost or something

What’s funny to me is Lance at 3 is a realistic possibility. The noise of him going at 3 started like a week ago. No one is going to argue with this dude that Lance isn’t going at 3 because it’s

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3 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:


oh, ok. Thanks for the clarification. I was only going by what I researched online over the last couple of weeks over various websites and such and then also found this more detailed breakdown by a poster on Reddit:

 

Simms tends to get a lot of hate for going against the tide with his quarterback rankings, but he's had pretty good hit rate so far. Plus he never lets other scouts' opinions sway him and his evaluations. Here are his QB prospect rankings:

2018

1) Lamar Jackson 

2) Josh Allen

3) Baker Mayfield

4) Sam Darnold

5) Josh Rosen

2019

1) Kyler Murray

2) Drew Lock

3) Dwayne Haskins

4) Ryan Finley

5) Jarrett Stidham

6) Daniel Jones

7) Clayton Thorson

😎 Will Grier

2020

1) Joe Burrow

2) Justin Herbert

3) Jordan Love

4) Tua Tagovailoa

He didn't make the QB prospect ranking video for the 2017 draft class, but while he was at Bleacher Report he had came out to say that Patrick Mahomes Is 2017 NFL Draft's Most Special QB Talent

I think his track record speaks for itself. He's got a really good eye for QB talents and a team looking for a quarterback in the upcoming draft should really take his opinions under consideration.

 

 

🤷‍♂️

What Simms doesn’t tell you is that he changed his mind on the 2018 class shortly before the draft. 

 

Kyler Murray over Drew Lock and Haskins isn’t really a sign of clairvoyant QB evaluation, he was clearly better than them. And Herbert is better than Burrow. 

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What’s funny is that Simms original argument on the 2018 class was sound. 

 

Lamar and Josh did have higher upside then their draft mates. Neither played on football teams with a lot of talent, both threw the ball down field aggressively, and both had correctable mechanics issues that led to accuracy woes (Lamar was more inconsistently accurate due to poor footwork, Josh was just inaccurate). Wish he stuck by it. Was never a big Darnold or Rosen fan. 

Sam was a turnover machine who couldn’t consistently process the field and Rosen was the same QB the day he walked into UCLA as the day he left. 

 

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3 hours ago, Deuce1042 said:

What Simms doesn’t tell you is that he changed his mind on the 2018 class shortly before the draft. 

 

Kyler Murray over Drew Lock and Haskins isn’t really a sign of clairvoyant QB evaluation, he was clearly better than them. And Herbert is better than Burrow. 

Herbert and Burrow is not at all settled or even close to it and if so he still called Herbert over Tua when Herbert was shat on a ton last year. If going after their rookie years Baker over Josh Allen and Lamar was settled and so was Darnold over Allen

Plenty had Haskins as QB1

And his 2018 one changed based on what connections in the NFL told him about Lamar's off field concerns (more just how his mom who was his hired agent wasn't transparent in the process with teams)

Since then he has said he does not shift based on what NFL people tell him and goes with what he sees

He's not clairvoyant or infallible but he definitely holds more weight in my mind than random armchair analysts

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@PisEdiRin I don’t agree with your takes usually, but I will say I also think the 49ers take Lance @ 3. 
 

edit- Mac jones has no ceiling to justify such a high pick, and I just don’t see it with fields. I definitely think it’s Lance. 

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19 hours ago, mocha4313 said:

Herbert and Burrow is not at all settled or even close to it and if so he still called Herbert over Tua when Herbert was shat on a ton last year. If going after their rookie years Baker over Josh Allen and Lamar was settled and so was Darnold over Allen

Plenty had Haskins as QB1

And his 2018 one changed based on what connections in the NFL told him about Lamar's off field concerns (more just how his mom who was his hired agent wasn't transparent in the process with teams)

Since then he has said he does not shift based on what NFL people tell him and goes with what he sees

He's not clairvoyant or infallible but he definitely holds more weight in my mind than random armchair analysts

 

People REALLY only had Haskins > Kyler because Kyler is short. Which is dumb in a reality where Russell Wilson and Drew Brees exist. Not only that....but it was never a crippling problem for Kyler in college and guys in the NFL aren't suddenly a foot taller. Not that his height doesn't effect his game at all, but if your overall conclusion was that he'd be a bad QB for that reason you had lost the plot. 

 

Also that reasoning regarding Lamar makes no sense. His mom being his agent shouldn't alter whether he thinks Lamar would be a good NFL QB or not based on the tape he watched. 

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On 4/24/2021 at 11:55 AM, Deuce1042 said:

What Simms doesn’t tell you is that he changed his mind on the 2018 class shortly before the draft. 

 

Kyler Murray over Drew Lock and Haskins isn’t really a sign of clairvoyant QB evaluation, he was clearly better than them. And Herbert is better than Burrow. 

Herbert is better than Burrow?

Alright buddy...

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2 hours ago, Deuce1042 said:

 

People REALLY only had Haskins > Kyler because Kyler is short. Which is dumb in a reality where Russell Wilson and Drew Brees exist. Not only that....but it was never a crippling problem for Kyler in college and guys in the NFL aren't suddenly a foot taller. Not that his height doesn't effect his game at all, but if your overall conclusion was that he'd be a bad QB for that reason you had lost the plot. 

 

Also that reasoning regarding Lamar makes no sense. His mom being his agent shouldn't alter whether he thinks Lamar would be a good NFL QB or not based on the tape he watched. 

Lamar's Mom as an agent was apparently not being very transparent with teams inquiring about him--leading to some moving him down due to not having the information they did about other QBs

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On 4/25/2021 at 3:30 PM, mocha4313 said:

Lamar's Mom as an agent was apparently not being very transparent with teams inquiring about him--leading to some moving him down due to not having the information they did about other QBs

 

Which again, has absolutely no relevance in whether or not you think he'd be a good QB based on his traits and tape. Which is what Chris Simms argues. 

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22 minutes ago, Deuce1042 said:

 

Which again, has absolutely no relevance in whether or not you think he'd be a good QB based on his traits and tape. Which is what Chris Simms argues. 

Off field fit and if a team can conduct an interview process and glean information, talk to a kid and see how much they love/understand the game absolutely has relevance to where you are willing to draft a QB and how they compare to the others

You play your Madden and think that's all there is to the drafting process. A big part of why Mac Jones and Trey Lance are flying up boards is how impressive they've been in interviews in terms of intelligence, understanding different concepts, etc--according to insiders

If a guy's mom isn't letting you talk to him and you have less information on him as a person that's absolutely something to consider for a team and evaluator

But whatever you listen to who you want on QBs and I'll listen to who I want

Simms was flamed for "projects" Lamar and Allen at 1 and 2, for Herbert over Tua and seems to be doing pretty well so I hold his opinion in high regard even while knowing he is not infallible (don't really care that Lamar's mom was unorthodox throughout the draft process and caused his stock to slip)

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Some quarterbacks on this list have only minor or moderate weaknesses, but this is a massive concern for Lance. It isn’t like Trevor Lawrence, who has flashed bouts of inaccuracy every once in a while; Lance has consistently been inaccurate.

Over the past two seasons, he ranks dead last in percentage of accurate throws beyond the line of scrimmage (44.1%) among the quarterbacks on this list. Not only is that the lowest mark, but it’s the worst by a country mile — 7.5 percentage points. Comparing that to all first-round quarterbacks since 2017, it’d still rank last by a comfortable margin. And Lance did this by throwing to a tight or closing window at the lowest rate among that group.

Accuracy is king, and Lance is going to need to have an anomalous turnaround, akin to that of Josh Allen this past season, to overcome this flaw.
 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-biggest-pro-con-top-qb-prospects

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1 hour ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

Some quarterbacks on this list have only minor or moderate weaknesses, but this is a massive concern for Lance. It isn’t like Trevor Lawrence, who has flashed bouts of inaccuracy every once in a while; Lance has consistently been inaccurate.

Over the past two seasons, he ranks dead last in percentage of accurate throws beyond the line of scrimmage (44.1%) among the quarterbacks on this list. Not only is that the lowest mark, but it’s the worst by a country mile — 7.5 percentage points. Comparing that to all first-round quarterbacks since 2017, it’d still rank last by a comfortable margin. And Lance did this by throwing to a tight or closing window at the lowest rate among that group.

Accuracy is king, and Lance is going to need to have an anomalous turnaround, akin to that of Josh Allen this past season, to overcome this flaw.
 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-biggest-pro-con-top-qb-prospects

 

 

You place way too much stock in numbers that do not matter at all.

Smart NFL teams don't focus on meaningless college stats without context.

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On 4/25/2021 at 3:14 PM, Gohawks said:

Herbert is better than Burrow?

Alright buddy...

Absolutely.

 

People make fun of Gettleman, but Gettleman properly had Justin Herbert rated as his #1 overall QB in the 2019 and 2020 Drafts combined....ahead of Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Joe Burrow, and Tua. He deserves more credit for getting a bunch of things right.

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18 hours ago, mocha4313 said:

Off field fit and if a team can conduct an interview process and glean information, talk to a kid and see how much they love/understand the game absolutely has relevance to where you are willing to draft a QB and how they compare to the others

You play your Madden and think that's all there is to the drafting process. A big part of why Mac Jones and Trey Lance are flying up boards is how impressive they've been in interviews in terms of intelligence, understanding different concepts, etc--according to insiders

If a guy's mom isn't letting you talk to him and you have less information on him as a person that's absolutely something to consider for a team and evaluator

But whatever you listen to who you want on QBs and I'll listen to who I want

Simms was flamed for "projects" Lamar and Allen at 1 and 2, for Herbert over Tua and seems to be doing pretty well so I hold his opinion in high regard even while knowing he is not infallible (don't really care that Lamar's mom was unorthodox throughout the draft process and caused his stock to slip)

Lamar’s mom wasn’t the problem. Idiot scouts and teams thinking he was a WR/RB was the problem. She wisely protected him from that which annoyed a lot of pretentious teams. He has proven her correct. 
 

I was dead wrong on Herbert. Hope Tua isn’t a busy. 

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1 hour ago, PisEdiRin said:

Absolutely.

 

People make fun of Gettleman, but Gettleman properly had Justin Herbert rated as his #1 overall QB in the 2019 and 2020 Drafts combined....ahead of Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Joe Burrow, and Tua. He deserves more credit for getting a bunch of things right.


Gettleman also drafted CMAC rd 1 (when many morons were comparing him to Danny Woodhead), and Saquon over Darnold...anyone still questioning that choice? He is right more often than blowhards like Evan Silva want to admit.

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On 4/25/2021 at 3:30 PM, mocha4313 said:

Lamar's Mom as an agent was apparently not being very transparent with teams inquiring about him--leading to some moving him down due to not having the information they did about other QBs


Because those teams weren’t taking him seriously as a QB...unfortunately this has happened to MANY athletic Black QBs over the last 40 years.  LJax put plenty on film to let teams know that in 2 years he could be unanimous NFL MVP. It was up to them to pay attention. I still remember Hugh Jackson in March 2018 telling Adam Schefter that LJax wasn’t a franchise QB but that Rosen was 😂 

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7 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

Lamar’s mom wasn’t the problem. Idiot scouts and teams thinking he was a WR/RB was the problem. She wisely protected him from that — this annoyed a lot of pretentious teams that viewed him the way Bill Polian did. He has proven her correct. 
 

I was dead wrong on Herbert. Hope Tua isn’t a bust.

 

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1 hour ago, PisEdiRin said:

Absolutely.

 

People make fun of Gettleman, but Gettleman properly had Justin Herbert rated as his #1 overall QB in the 2019 and 2020 Drafts combined....ahead of Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Joe Burrow, and Tua. He deserves more credit for getting a bunch of things right.

Dont forget Gettleman definitely had Tom Brady as his No. 1 QB in 2000 too.

 

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^^^^Peep the date of the 1st tweet

April 22, 2020.

This was before the 2020 NFL draft, before Herbert was even drafted, let alone play 1 snap in the NFL.

Gettleman had Herbert as the #1 QB in 2019+2020 the whole entire time.

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1 hour ago, PisEdiRin said:

^^^^Peep the date of the 1st tweet

April 22, 2020.

This was before the 2020 NFL draft, before Herbert was even drafted, let alone play 1 snap in the NFL.

Gettleman had Herbert as the #1 QB in 2019+2020 the whole entire time.

If he doesn't have him on his dynasty roster than it doesn't matter.

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2 hours ago, PisEdiRin said:

^^^^Peep the date of the 1st tweet

April 22, 2020.

This was before the 2020 NFL draft, before Herbert was even drafted, let alone play 1 snap in the NFL.

Gettleman had Herbert as the #1 QB in 2019+2020 the whole entire time.

Fascinating

His team went 6-10 in a historically bad division

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