Jump to content
NBC Sports Edge Forums

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, nk2333 said:

So what's the big deal about his 40 time?  So what if he's not a home run hitter.  Looks like he makes up for it by his vision, size, etc.  What we're really chasing here is opportunity.   We've seen James Connor plod his way to fantasy success in this offense.   Najee will  be a bell -cow back.  I have him as RB12

Bell was no stopwatch buster, either ... you could count the number of his 40+ yd runs with only 2 fingers. 

his last full year with the Stillers he amassed over 2k total yds, but it took 400+ touches.  that, my friends, is FAR from "explosive" ... he was a volume hog, pure and simple. 

Njorl will be given every opportunity to assume that role - what's not to love here? 

PS - if you ascertain that i'm predicting a 400 touch/2k season ... well - go smoke sum more 🦃 🛀

z3gi1APZd5q5-yZGKe31SLJ4AdmlAK6dPoOtgZ5n

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 399
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

K197040's Dog 2021 Outlook

Steelers league worst offensive line just lost one of its better players. DeCastro released today. This offensive line is going to be a hot mess and I wouldn't draft Harris with one or YOUR draft pick

Posted Images

22 hours ago, pastorofmuppets2 said:

"Love it. Look, when you're gonna plant a frickin' flag, aim to plant it on Everest, ya hear? No mamby/pamby, wishy-washy pearl clutching here ... take the stand, man that freakin' hill - and hunker the eff down!1!!!1!"

:) 'preciate the sentiment, except my  conviction always has the look of a platoon. I'm not the sort where, I'll perhaps reach for Harris, add a few other RBs by the mid-rounds & I'm largely done. My leagues draft before the preseason so I'm not adding a kicker then or even a DEF/ST. So every year I'm drafting a minimum of 6, often 7 RBs! In my keeper leagues all of the value plays are going to be listed. So, a couple of primary choices are Harris & Trey Sermon. Sermon's height to weight ratio isn't ideal, he's too upright, but you gotta love Kyle Shanahan's lead 'back.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's time for a chart.

image.png.2990d2db65660ba2b325ccfd433169fe.png

Slower runners are on the right, faster runners on the left; the vertical axis is the fantasy points in STD last season as per https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/fantasy.htm (the picture for PPR is fairly similar). I focused on the players drafted the past 5 years as I assume the older players will have slowed down a bit and the 40 time measured back in their days is less relevant.

I'd say there is no problem with RBs with a 40 time over 4.65, and having a time under 4.40 isn't necessarily a guarantee for success. If he has 4.45, that's fine; if it's really 4.65, that's fine too. 

TL;DR: 40 times are fairly irrelevant.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Boudewijn said:

I think it's time for a chart.

image.png.2990d2db65660ba2b325ccfd433169fe.png

Slower runners are on the right, faster runners on the left; the vertical axis is the fantasy points in STD last season as per https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/fantasy.htm (the picture for PPR is fairly similar). I focused on the players drafted the past 5 years as I assume the older players will have slowed down a bit and the 40 time measured back in their days is less relevant.

I'd say there is no problem with RBs with a 40 time over 4.65, and having a time under 4.40 isn't necessarily a guarantee for success. If he has 4.45, that's fine; if it's really 4.65, that's fine too. 

TL;DR: 40 times are fairly irrelevant.


Interesting name at the top, in a tier all alone. 
 

it can be lonely at the top.

  • Haha 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/9/2021 at 6:55 PM, Savatage79 said:

Eh, bro go back and look up guys like Tomlinson, Alexander,  Smith, Forte, charles, Sjax....these guys had many many seasons of doing what bell did and way more. 

 

I don't know enough about Najee Harris to comment, at a quick glance, I'm significant higher on him that the general public.  It's early for me, but I'm currently looking at a ranking of RB12, top of my 5th tier grouped ahead of Jacobs, Mixon, Carson, and Montgomery.

The absolute disrespect of Le'Veon Bell in this thread is a disgrace.  I do think he threw his career away by holding out, skipping a year, and money chasing, so he'll never be regarded as highly as he could have been, no argument there.  His 2 follow up seasons since aren't doing him any favors either.

Until that point... he was on pace to be a HOF RB in my opinion.  He was basically averaging 1900 scrimmage yards a year for the first 5 years of his career prior to the franchise bs.  Lost 1 season to injury in '15 and his 13 game rookie season only came to 1300 yards.  You can credit everything he did to the OLine, be my guest, we can do that for a lot of elite players over the years, and nitpick any season if we really wanted.

So, you can say those RBs did it for many years, but that's the point.  Bell was doing equal to and greater than those guys were... he just threw it away to try and prove a point.  Longevity matters, but 4 of his first 5 seasons are comparable to everything those incredible backs did, which is the main take away and why he was going to be in the same conversation... until he sat out.

What Le'Veon did in in 2016 was one of the greatest RB performances in 2 decades, in fact it was the best fantasy season a RB has had since 2006 by none other than Tomlinson (which was TD dominant).  Unfortunately it got cut short by a stupid suspension and he missed the first 3 games for weed if memory serves.

Bell's season got kinda swept under the rug and forgotten, because David Johnson played all 16 games that year at a slightly lower per-game pace, that resulted in a better year end finish (less rushing yards in 16 games than Bell had in 12, and only beat Bell by 5 receptions despite 4 extra games).  It was immediately followed with the Franchise drama, where he came back and finished RB2 in '17, and then it went off the rails with the 2nd franchise tag and sitting out.  Further burying his incredible season, Christian McCaffrey came along, and absolutely eclipsed both Bell and Tomlinson, giving us the best RB fantasy season we've ever seen (that I can find going back to 2001)
The fantasy world moves on quick though.  Despite being only 29 with just 1556 career carries to his name (D.Henry already at 1182 for perspective), he's basically dead to the fantasy world and may not even be in the league anymore at this rate.

*As always, I speak from a PPR perspective.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FFCollusion said:

 

I don't know enough about Najee Harris to comment, at a quick glance, I'm significant higher on him that the general public.  It's early for me, but I'm currently looking at a ranking of RB12, top of my 5th tier grouped ahead of Jacobs, Mixon, Carson, and Montgomery.

The absolute disrespect of Le'Veon Bell in this thread is a disgrace.  I do think he threw his career away by holding out, skipping a year, and money chasing, so he'll never be regarded as highly as he could have been, no argument there.  His 2 follow up seasons since aren't doing him any favors either.

Until that point... he was on pace to be a HOF RB in my opinion.  He was basically averaging 1900 scrimmage yards a year for the first 5 years of his career prior to the franchise bs.  Lost 1 season to injury in '15 and his 13 game rookie season only came to 1300 yards.  You can credit everything he did to the OLine, be my guest, we can do that for a lot of elite players over the years, and nitpick any season if we really wanted.

So, you can say those RBs did it for many years, but that's the point.  Bell was doing equal to and greater than those guys were... he just threw it away to try and prove a point.  Longevity matters, but 4 of his first 5 seasons are comparable to everything those incredible backs did, which is the main take away and why he was going to be in the same conversation... until he sat out.

What Le'Veon did in in 2016 was one of the greatest RB performances in 2 decades, in fact it was the best fantasy season a RB has had since 2006 by none other than Tomlinson (which was TD dominant).  Unfortunately it got cut short by a stupid suspension and he missed the first 3 games for weed if memory serves.

Bell's season got kinda swept under the rug and forgotten, because David Johnson played all 16 games that year at a slightly lower per-game pace, that resulted in a better year end finish (less rushing yards in 16 games than Bell had in 12, and only beat Bell by 5 receptions despite 4 extra games).  It was immediately followed with the Franchise drama, where he came back and finished RB2 in '17, and then it went off the rails with the 2nd franchise tag and sitting out.  Further burying his incredible season, Christian McCaffrey came along, and absolutely eclipsed both Bell and Tomlinson, giving us the best RB fantasy season we've ever seen (that I can find going back to 2001)
The fantasy world moves on quick though.  Despite being only 29 with just 1556 career carries to his name (D.Henry already at 1182 for perspective), he's basically dead to the fantasy world and may not even be in the league anymore at this rate.

*As always, I speak from a PPR perspective.

Bell had a 4 year stretch where he averaged 137 YPG from scrimmage.

The man stayed on a 16 game pace of 2,200 yards from scrimmage over 4 years. He won’t be a HOFer for reasons you mentioned and yes he struggled to finish some seasons due to injury/suspensions but Bell is the best RB of the decade from a skill standpoint and even production standpoint when on the field.

He gave a middle finger to the entire league and then had his name drug through the mud resulting in a bunch of people slandering his game. All because he didn’t dominate on the worst team in the NFL after sitting out a season and clearly not giving a damn.

Harris doesn’t even belong in the same conversation as Bell. It’s flat out disrespectful. He’d be lucky to be half the guy Bell was. Which, considering the stats I mentioned would still make him a decent RB. 

Edited by Gohawks
  • Like 1
  • Haha 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/13/2021 at 1:33 AM, FFCollusion said:

 

I don't know enough about Najee Harris to comment, at a quick glance, I'm significant higher on him that the general public.  It's early for me, but I'm currently looking at a ranking of RB12, top of my 5th tier grouped ahead of Jacobs, Mixon, Carson, and Montgomery.

The absolute disrespect of Le'Veon Bell in this thread is a disgrace.  I do think he threw his career away by holding out, skipping a year, and money chasing, so he'll never be regarded as highly as he could have been, no argument there.  His 2 follow up seasons since aren't doing him any favors either.

Until that point... he was on pace to be a HOF RB in my opinion.  He was basically averaging 1900 scrimmage yards a year for the first 5 years of his career prior to the franchise bs.  Lost 1 season to injury in '15 and his 13 game rookie season only came to 1300 yards.  You can credit everything he did to the OLine, be my guest, we can do that for a lot of elite players over the years, and nitpick any season if we really wanted.

So, you can say those RBs did it for many years, but that's the point.  Bell was doing equal to and greater than those guys were... he just threw it away to try and prove a point.  Longevity matters, but 4 of his first 5 seasons are comparable to everything those incredible backs did, which is the main take away and why he was going to be in the same conversation... until he sat out.

What Le'Veon did in in 2016 was one of the greatest RB performances in 2 decades, in fact it was the best fantasy season a RB has had since 2006 by none other than Tomlinson (which was TD dominant).  Unfortunately it got cut short by a stupid suspension and he missed the first 3 games for weed if memory serves.

Bell's season got kinda swept under the rug and forgotten, because David Johnson played all 16 games that year at a slightly lower per-game pace, that resulted in a better year end finish (less rushing yards in 16 games than Bell had in 12, and only beat Bell by 5 receptions despite 4 extra games).  It was immediately followed with the Franchise drama, where he came back and finished RB2 in '17, and then it went off the rails with the 2nd franchise tag and sitting out.  Further burying his incredible season, Christian McCaffrey came along, and absolutely eclipsed both Bell and Tomlinson, giving us the best RB fantasy season we've ever seen (that I can find going back to 2001)
The fantasy world moves on quick though.  Despite being only 29 with just 1556 career carries to his name (D.Henry already at 1182 for perspective), he's basically dead to the fantasy world and may not even be in the league anymore at this rate.

*As always, I speak from a PPR perspective.

I had to go look at at this 2016 season and it was truly amazing. He averaged 157 yards per game that year. For reference chris Johnson averaged 156 ypg when he set the record for most yards from scrimmage in Season. Just makes ya think what could have been. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess i don't understand what else were supposed to do that info, build an alter in his name as the greatest coulda woulda shoulda back in Pittsburgh? His time is over, yea he was a good back and when he was being a team player it was great. But its over johnny,  he's donzo, time for the next man up...and I would bet my house on it that Najees career will be more fulfilling when it's done.

  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Savatage79 said:

I guess i don't understand what else were supposed to do that info, build an alter in his name as the greatest coulda woulda shoulda back in Pittsburgh? His time is over, yea he was a good back and when he was being a team player it was great. But its over johnny,  he's donzo, time for the next man up...and I would bet my house on it that Najees career will be more fulfilling when it's done.

This is a fantasy forum you don't have to do **** with that info. Steelers fans have so much salt in their mouth about Bell that it's pointless to reason with them about his career.

I'm not the one that brought Bell up in this thread. In fact, the only reason I mentioned him is because you decided to start with absurdly claiming he is more of a complete back than Bell. That's the only reason his name is in this thread. If someone said Metcalf is a more complete WR than Calvin Johnson they deserve to get called out for it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/12/2021 at 10:33 PM, FFCollusion said:

 

I don't know enough about Najee Harris to comment, at a quick glance, I'm significant higher on him that the general public.  It's early for me, but I'm currently looking at a ranking of RB12, top of my 5th tier grouped ahead of Jacobs, Mixon, Carson, and Montgomery.

The absolute disrespect of Le'Veon Bell in this thread is a disgrace.  I do think he threw his career away by holding out, skipping a year, and money chasing, so he'll never be regarded as highly as he could have been, no argument there.  His 2 follow up seasons since aren't doing him any favors either.

Until that point... he was on pace to be a HOF RB in my opinion.  He was basically averaging 1900 scrimmage yards a year for the first 5 years of his career prior to the franchise bs.  Lost 1 season to injury in '15 and his 13 game rookie season only came to 1300 yards.  You can credit everything he did to the OLine, be my guest, we can do that for a lot of elite players over the years, and nitpick any season if we really wanted.

So, you can say those RBs did it for many years, but that's the point.  Bell was doing equal to and greater than those guys were... he just threw it away to try and prove a point.  Longevity matters, but 4 of his first 5 seasons are comparable to everything those incredible backs did, which is the main take away and why he was going to be in the same conversation... until he sat out.

What Le'Veon did in in 2016 was one of the greatest RB performances in 2 decades, in fact it was the best fantasy season a RB has had since 2006 by none other than Tomlinson (which was TD dominant).  Unfortunately it got cut short by a stupid suspension and he missed the first 3 games for weed if memory serves.

Bell's season got kinda swept under the rug and forgotten, because David Johnson played all 16 games that year at a slightly lower per-game pace, that resulted in a better year end finish (less rushing yards in 16 games than Bell had in 12, and only beat Bell by 5 receptions despite 4 extra games).  It was immediately followed with the Franchise drama, where he came back and finished RB2 in '17, and then it went off the rails with the 2nd franchise tag and sitting out.  Further burying his incredible season, Christian McCaffrey came along, and absolutely eclipsed both Bell and Tomlinson, giving us the best RB fantasy season we've ever seen (that I can find going back to 2001)
The fantasy world moves on quick though.  Despite being only 29 with just 1556 career carries to his name (D.Henry already at 1182 for perspective), he's basically dead to the fantasy world and may not even be in the league anymore at this rate.

*As always, I speak from a PPR perspective.

When Bell was a beast in Pittsburgh, they had a top 3 offensive line in the league. They currently have a bottom 3 offensive line. If you think Harris is going to get the holes that LeVeon got, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Edit- Not a knock on Bell, he was truly a great back. Najee is not that good of a back, and he's going to have a much harder task ahead of him.

Edited by ajs723
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

This is a fantasy forum you don't have to do **** with that info. Steelers fans have so much salt in their mouth about Bell that it's pointless to reason with them about his career.

I'm not the one that brought Bell up in this thread. In fact, the only reason I mentioned him is because you decided to start with absurdly claiming he is more of a complete back than Bell. That's the only reason his name is in this thread. If someone said Metcalf is a more complete WR than Calvin Johnson they deserve to get called out for it.

 You're right don't have to do anything with it because it's old hat, Bell is a has been loser that basically rolled himself right out of a career pretty much

 

But good thing he can rap, oh wait 😂

Edited by Savatage79
Link to post
Share on other sites

Najee is faster, stronger and more athletic than Bell was at his prime.  Also, Najee seems to have a really good head on his shoulders, whereas Bell has proven his confirmed turd status about 100x over.

Yes Bell has a few outstanding fantasy seasons, likely largely down to volume and the team around him.  Harris, on the other hand, is a champion on and off the field.  Betcha Harris eclipses Bell.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Savatage79 said:

 You're right don't have to do anything with it because it's old hat, Bell is a has been loser that basically rolled himself right out of a career pretty much and won nothing.

 

But good thing he can rap, oh wait 😂

If Bell is old news and irrelevant why did you compare Harris to him?

Edited by Gohawks
Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the line set to block for Harris in 2021 cannot hold a candle to the one that blocked for Bell in 2016, but I still think Harris will perform very very well.  Benny Snell and Jaylen Samuels are not going to threaten Harris's workload.

Edited by SharkSwimmer
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

If Bell is old news and irrelevant why did you compare Harris to him?

You're just digging to deep, my whole stance is nothing more than Harris is a legit 3 down beast of a back that everyone should be interested in , city and fantasy purposes.  Coming from the made of glass James conner era, its an exciting prospect.

I'm razzing you about Bell, sure at the time he was great...I was proud that brown and bell were top 5 fantasy players but he left. I never really wanted him to leave, I knew his potential and that he was a great back. He was our last true back given conner can't last,  so my whole gist is Harris is the next guy that I feel can give this whole offense a huge boost like Bell did, that's it, that is all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Najee is faster, stronger and more athletic than Bell was at his prime.  Also, Najee seems to have a really good head on his shoulders, whereas Bell has proven his confirmed turd status about 100x over.

Yes Bell has a few outstanding fantasy seasons, likely largely down to volume and the team around him.  Harris, on the other hand, is a champion on and off the field.  Betcha Harris eclipses Bell.

Can you show me a metric where Najee tested faster, stronger, or more agile than Bell. He's definitely slower and less agile. Bell was 80th percentile in the bench press. Can't find anything for Najee, but if he's stronger, it's not by much.

More importantly, he isn't anywhere near the polished back Bell was in his prime. LeVeon was possibly the best pure runner of his generation.

Let's not tarnish Bell's skills because he turned out to seemingly be a bag.

If you want to bet that a RB who hasn't taken a single NFL snap is alreadt better than an elite perennial pro-bono back, go ahead. But that's a terrible bet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, ajs723 said:

Can you show me a metric where Najee tested faster, stronger, or more agile than Bell. He's definitely slower and less agile. Bell was 80th percentile in the bench press. Can't find anything for Najee, but if he's stronger, it's not by much.

I actually think Najee is faster and stronger than bell. But bell probably more agile with a slightly quicker first step. Idk what Najee can bench press but that’s hardly a test of football strength. He’s a real bull when he wants to be. I know the bell comparisons are coming cuss of the Steelers but I think more of Marshawn Lynch when i watch Najee run. Just my opinion. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, ajs723 said:

LeVeon was possibly the best pure runner of his generation.

full stop.

don't even come in here with such ridiculousness.

ADP, Charles, Foster, Marshawn, CJ2K, Shady, Gurley, Zeke were all much better pure runners, without a doubt. 

not to mention cats from the latter part of Bell's career, like King Hendry & Barkley & Kamara.   

you wanna pump up his compiled stats? coolio. 

... but please pump the effin' brakes on the hyperbole of him being best "pure" runner.

FULL. STOP. 

🛀

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:

I actually think Najee is faster and stronger than bell. But bell probably more agile with a slightly quicker first step. Idk what Najee can bench press but that’s hardly a test of football strength. He’s a real bull when he wants to be. I know the bell comparisons are coming cuss of the Steelers but I think more of Marshawn Lynch when i watch Najee run. Just my opinion. 

You can think what you want. But he tested slower and less agile (Bell tested top of the charts agility). Najee might be stronger, but Bell was extremely strong himself. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, pastorofmuppets2 said:

full stop.

don't even come in here with such ridiculousness.

ADP, Charles, Foster, Marshawn, CJ2K, Shady, Gurley, Zeke were all much better pure runners, without a doubt. 

not to mention cats from the latter part of Bell's career, like King Hendry & Barkley & Kamara.   

you wanna pump up his compiled stats? coolio. 

... but please pump the effin' brakes on the hyperbole of him being best "pure" runner.

FULL. STOP. 

🛀

Peterson was obviously better. Lynch was extra special as a pure RB in his prime too. 

Charles was my favorite back of that "era", but was more of a pure speed player and finesse guy. So was CJ2K. 

Guys like Shady and Foster were obviously elite RBs from a technical standpoint. But I think prime Bell was right there with them.

For the sake of this, I'm not including guys like Dalvin, Saquon, and Henry as I consider them the next gen. RB generations are very short.

So best, I guess not. But certainly top 3-5.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ajs723 said:

You can think what you want. But he tested slower and less agile (Bell tested top of the charts agility). Najee might be stronger, but Bell was extremely strong himself. 

Do we have a Najee speed test? The only one I’ve ever found was sourced from a magazine called “touchdown Alabama” and it was a 4.45 

He didn’t run one at his pro day either. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Stonej14 said:

Do we have a Najee speed test? The only one I’ve ever found was sourced from a magazine called “touchdown Alabama” and it was a 4.45 

He didn’t run one at his pro day either. 

 

Oh, you're right. I had seen 4.66, but that's his high school forty. No way he ran a legit 4.45, lol. 

No way to know his time, I guess. But Bell was 4.6 out of college. Harris could be a tick lower than that, but he's not a speed player.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we've had the speed discussion thoroughly beaten, but Najee clearly is not a speed guy or anywhere near a 4.4 IMO, just based on the eye test. If he was, he would've run the 40 and made himself a ton of money as people would be referring to him as a generational prospect if he paired 4.45 speed with his size.

Link to post
Share on other sites

These tests are irrelevant considering Bell was clearly overweight and lost a lot of weight which means he was faster and any tests done at a teams own facility should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt.

Claiming Harris is faster and more athletic than prime Bell is wrong. Even if it wasn’t wrong (it is) Bells athleticism isn’t what set him apart. It was his patience, vision, route running, and hands. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...