Jump to content
NBC Sports Edge Forums

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

Can't wait for Harris to put up 3000 yards from scrimmage behind a bad line and a 2015 Payton Manning that looks like he ate 2015 Payton Manning.

So, let's not be totally ridiculous.  

 

Manning in 15 had 2200 yards ,9 tds and 17 int. Ben last year had 3800 yds,  33 tds and 10 ints. I mean Ben is definitely on his last legs but come on man, we don't need to get so hyperbolic to the point of absurdity here.  Plus the WRs had a ton of drops,  and we had "zero" running game.  And he still chucked out 33 tds , not amazing but not anywhere near Manning levels in 15.

They improved the line and will continue to improve the line, it won't be perfect this year but it'll be better. And we added 2 stud playmakers.  It's not as dire as ya want to make it 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 273
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

K197040's Dog 2021 Outlook

I don't know enough about Najee Harris to comment, at a quick glance, I'm significant higher on him that the general public.  It's early for me, but I'm currently looking at a ranking of RB12, top of

Posted Images

On 5/4/2021 at 8:53 AM, Joe Mama said:

Well Forte also had a style of play that allowed for that. And there will always be exceptions I’m just trying to guess what is most likely to happen and make decisions off of that.

Thats fine but its a little silly to say he has only potentially 3-4 years in him just because he's 23. Youre making him out to be the Brandon Weeden of RBs or something. Its not like he's going to start declining imminently after 2 seasons.

I would be more concerned if he had a Jonathan Taylor/AP like workload in college but he didnt.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Evincar said:

Thats fine but its a little silly to say he has only potentially 3-4 years in him just because he's 23. Youre making him out to be the Brandon Weeden of RBs or something. Its not like he's going to start declining imminently after 2 seasons.

I would be more concerned if he had a Jonathan Taylor/AP like workload in college but he didnt.

I still believe if harris landed on other teams there would be some drastically different opinions, know what I mean ?

Edited by Savatage79
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Savatage79 said:

I still believe if harris landed on other teams there would be some drastically different opinions, know what I mean ?

Well, obviously.

Some people who go knee-jerk "oh, Steelers running game, yummie" would then put him lower, not realizing that the Steelers rushing game has been meh since 2017 (yup, that was still with St Bell) and other people who are low on the Steelers O-line (for good reason) would possibly rate him higher on another team.

I'm a bit of both. "Harris on the Steelers" sounds amazing until you examine the evidence. The main debate here is not whether Harris is a stud (he is) but whether he can be a stud behind the Steelers O-line.

Here's a list (stolen from a SI article😞

LT: Chukwuma Okorafor (19 games started in career, 15 of which came at RT in 2020)

LG: Kevin Dotson (4 games started in career)

😄 B.J. Finney (13 games started in career. None last year between CIN/SEA)

RG: David DeCastro (124 starts in career)

RT: Zach Banner (2 games started in career. Coming off torn ACL)

(Plus a TE and an OG in the draft)

Not saying it can't happen; just saying buyer beware. You're enthusiastic and good for you; but allow for people with less yellow/black tinted glasses to be slightly more cautious.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Boudewijn said:

Well, obviously.

Some people who go knee-jerk "oh, Steelers running game, yummie" would then put him lower, not realizing that the Steelers rushing game has been meh since 2017 (yup, that was still with St Bell) and other people who are low on the Steelers O-line (for good reason) would possibly rate him higher on another team.

I'm a bit of both. "Harris on the Steelers" sounds amazing until you examine the evidence. The main debate here is not whether Harris is a stud (he is) but whether he can be a stud behind the Steelers O-line.

Here's a list (stolen from a SI article😞

LT: Chukwuma Okorafor (19 games started in career, 15 of which came at RT in 2020)

LG: Kevin Dotson (4 games started in career)

😄 B.J. Finney (13 games started in career. None last year between CIN/SEA)

RG: David DeCastro (124 starts in career)

RT: Zach Banner (2 games started in career. Coming off torn ACL)

(Plus a TE and an OG in the draft)

Not saying it can't happen; just saying buyer beware. You're enthusiastic and good for you; but allow for people with less yellow/black tinted glasses to be slightly more cautious.

But I agree with it as well, my point is ...can it truly get any worse than when we had glass man conner and his band of bums? I think we're about to see the Steelers get back to being a run first offense, However it may not quite be this year.

But yea im super enthusiastic, who wouldn't be ya know ? But I'm also not just saying the guy will be instantly the rb1 in fantasy after this year. 

My standpoint is to me this is steelers version of a rebuild, this will help Ben but I believe it's being setup for our future post Ben. Green I think can really be something in a year or two, same with Dotson  etc..

But next year they will continue to address it I'm sure. 

Ben when you watch those highlights makes some dsmn nice plays still, so while I feel he's ready to pack it in soon he still has a little left .

If we didn't get Harris I'd be pretty unenthusiastic about the season ,but Harris brings a hell of a lot. So why not go in a little more optimistic than naught is my pov, I just want to hope and put faith in the Steelers to get this right . But this is one huge step getting back to hopefully being an elite run team again. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Magoo said:

Yea there definitely won't be any love loss here , gonna be 33, and he definitely didn't really help last year to create much space for anyone however as I said when you're tryin to block for mediocre bums there isn't much you can do either.  Either way, a few years ago I think it would sting more but right now I don't think it matters much that steelers lost the aging lineman

However  I do applaud his jabs about the tiktok clowns on the Steelers 

Edited by Savatage79
Link to post
Share on other sites

Najee is great. Tomlin knows how to use a bellcow RB. The Steelers have great WRs that opposing defenses have to respect. But the run blocking is a question mark and Big Ben is a shell of his former self that can't really throw downfield anymore.

Are the last 2 negatives big enough to scare me off of drafting him in the first 3 rounds? Probably.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, sSektor said:

Najee is great. Tomlin knows how to use a bellcow RB. The Steelers have great WRs that opposing defenses have to respect. But the run blocking is a question mark and Big Ben is a shell of his former self that can't really throw downfield anymore.

Are the last 2 negatives big enough to scare me off of drafting him in the first 3 rounds? Probably.

Yep this is the problem. Big Ben is toast. He knows it, we know it, and the rest of the NFL knows it. There is no respect there, and box-stacking will ensue. And supposedly re-signing Rudolph is the answer on this.....no. Their line is weaker than even last year. This is not remotely close to the Bell/De'Angelo/plug in any RB days of yore.

I will say if I can't nail down a RB in the first two rounds I'll certainly look at Najee in the 3rd - he WILL be the RB in PIT - which does count for something. I'd be terribly nervous with him as my RB1 though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, sSektor said:

Najee is great. Tomlin knows how to use a bellcow RB. The Steelers have great WRs that opposing defenses have to respect. But the run blocking is a question mark and Big Ben is a shell of his former self that can't really throw downfield anymore.

Are the last 2 negatives big enough to scare me off of drafting him in the first 3 rounds? Probably.

It may be a gross 300 touch 3.8 to 4 YPC type of year, with 30-40 receptions.

This is sounding like a Leonard Fournette in JAX situation...he somehow churned out RB1 stats on volume alone on a terrible team. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PlayTheWaivers said:

It may be a gross 300 touch 3.8 to 4 YPC type of year, with 30-40 receptions.

This is sounding like a Leonard Fournette in JAX situation...he somehow churned out RB1 stats on volume alone on a terrible team. 

Melvin Gordon kinda year? Honestly though Najee should get a reasonable amount of TDs unless he struggles in that department. Add in a decent amount of receptions and I think he has a solid rookie year. I'm tempering my expectations a little but there should be enough opportunities that it makes his draft spot worth it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, PlayTheWaivers said:

It may be a gross 300 touch 3.8 to 4 YPC type of year, with 30-40 receptions.

This is sounding like a Leonard Fournette in JAX situation...he somehow churned out RB1 stats on volume alone on a terrible team. 

I mean that still puts him at 1,200 rushing yards and like 250-350 receiving yards. You're still looking at RB1-mid tier RB2 production based on TDs. Unless you are referring to 300 touches with those receptions than maybe.

300 carries is rich but not impossible since Bell was pretty much at that volume every time he just never played 16 games. 

I would put his projections around 260/1,000/8 and 35/250/2. That's 12.7 PPG in half PPR or like RB17-20 or so (round 3-4). I do think there is potential for 300/1,300-/12 or so on the rushing end but i'm not putting my faith in that offensive line at all or that offense in general.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, SuperJoint said:

Yep this is the problem. Big Ben is toast. He knows it, we know it, and the rest of the NFL knows it. There is no respect there, and box-stacking will ensue.

Or one could argue the lack of respect for the run game left Ben hung out to dry last year. Works both ways

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, fingers said:

Or one could argue the lack of respect for the run game left Ben hung out to dry last year. Works both ways

Sure but I don't buy that. Like I'm sure most who read these forums I've seen probably at least (parts of or the entire thing) 100+ of Big Ben's games over his many years. He's not the same guy - one of the easiest defensive game plans to draw up is to force the opposing QB to throw - why put much more thought into it than that. His accuracy has disappeared on the deep ball. That has happened for some reason - and it really hurt him last year because he lost confidence in his deep throw and preferred dinking and dunking repeatedly - that means your running game goes nowhere. As I'm sure you're aware the Steelers during Ben's prime relied heavily upon the deep ball offensively - it set the table for everything else. The coach is the same, so is the system. 

And sure - Conner and Snell were awful as well last year. In Conner's first couple years Ben was playing at a much higher level, boxes were not stacked - and Conner was a perfectly adequate back then (other than getting injured). Now he and Benny Snell have become the same RB. 

My hope is that Harris is durable enough to withstand the stacked boxes he'll be facing and break some tackles. Snell actually stand up better than Conner to that punishment, but he doesn't break the tackles you think he should. 

Edited by SuperJoint
Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, SuperJoint said:

Sure but I don't buy that. Like I'm sure most who read these forums I've seen probably at least (parts of or the entire thing) 100+ of Big Ben's games over his many years. He's not the same guy - one of the easiest defensive game plans to draw up is to force the opposing QB to throw - why put much more thought into it than that. His accuracy has disappeared on the deep ball. That has happened for some reason - and it really hurt him last year because he lost confidence in his deep throw and preferred dinking and dunking repeatedly - that means your running game goes nowhere. As I'm sure you're aware the Steelers during Ben's prime relied heavily upon the deep ball offensively - it set the table for everything else. The coach is the same, so is the system. 

And sure - Conner and Snell were awful as well last year. In Conner's first couple years Ben was playing at a much higher level, boxes were not stacked - and Conner was a perfectly adequate back then (other than getting injured). Now he and Benny Snell have become the same RB. 

My hope is that Harris is durable enough to withstand the stacked boxes he'll be facing and break some tackles. Snell actually stand up better than Conner to that punishment, but he doesn't break the tackles you think he should. 

Look at those highlights man, the footage doesn't lie. Not everything is about the deep ball , but there are a ton of 30 40 yard passes that look spot on.

For fantasy purposes Ben isn't exactly the model of elite points, but for a player he can still make plays .

I'm the first in Pittsburgh that is ready for the next chapter , however, you can't discount that Ben had no run game to lean on at all. We didn't have that many big play makers,  and now we added a big time playmaker and possibly another of Freiermuth gets in.

Matt Ryan gets yardage but he had a lower passer rating than Ben last year and has thrown under 30 tds in 2 years now , with 14 ints in 2019 with only 26 tds. 

I am all for pointing out steelers flaws but these blanket statements like Ben can only throw dinks and dunks when there's footage of strikes he can make to the end zone that shoe otherwise and nobody wants to acknowledge it.

Ben is on the cusp, but with line upgrades and and a huge playmaker like Harris, the team could rebound nicely from that ending 1-5 of last year.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Savatage79 said:

Look at those highlights man, the footage doesn't lie. Not everything is about the deep ball , but there are a ton of 30 40 yard passes that look spot on.

For fantasy purposes Ben isn't exactly the model of elite points, but for a player he can still make plays .

I'm the first in Pittsburgh that is ready for the next chapter , however, you can't discount that Ben had no run game to lean on at all. We didn't have that many big play makers,  and now we added a big time playmaker and possibly another of Freiermuth gets in.

Matt Ryan gets yardage but he had a lower passer rating than Ben last year and has thrown under 30 tds in 2 years now , with 14 ints in 2019 with only 26 tds. 

I am all for pointing out steelers flaws but these blanket statements like Ben can only throw dinks and dunks when there's footage of strikes he can make to the end zone that shoe otherwise and nobody wants to acknowledge it.

Ben is on the cusp, but with line upgrades and and a huge playmaker like Harris, the team could rebound nicely from that ending 1-5 of last year.

These are all fair points. But with fantasy drafts we have to try to break out the crystal ball to a certain extent - my gut says Ben is no better in 2021 than he was last year. Other than Harris they got (as you mention) Freiermuth and then got Green (G) and Moore (T) B2B 2-3-4 in the draft - that was pretty damn good. All 3 of those guys are key picks to Najee's success this year and to a certain extent Ben as well. Time will tell if those picks pay off. 

Edited by SuperJoint
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, SuperJoint said:

These are all fair points. But with fantasy drafts we have to try to break out the crystal ball to a certain extent - my gut says Ben is no better in 2021 than he was last year. Other than Harris they got (as you mention) Freiermuth and then got Green (G) and Moore (T) B2B 2-3-4 in the draft - that was pretty damn good. All 3 of those guys are key picks to Najee's success this year and to a certain extent Ben as well. Time will tell if those picks pay off. 

I mean my overall is I feel Harris is going to just be an awesome fantasy relevant back.

We've seen even the most garbage teams have great backs. 

I was looking back to see how many strong backs were behind unstellar lines and there's a pretty large list, it was interesting to go back and refresh my memory. 

Steelers will be better, by how much can't say but they'll be better. Rememeber I'm not saying their super bow caliber but with harris and the like adjustments, playoffs aren't out of the question .

I wish they'd get Nelson back but that isn't happening,  Nelson should've been the priority not Juju

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Savatage79 said:

I wish they'd get Nelson back but that isn't happening,  Nelson should've been the priority not Juju

Couldn't agree more here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, SuperJoint said:

Couldn't agree more here.

That's where steelers made no sense to me , like they got Claypool to replace juju...nobody wanted juju so he crawls back and they get him at a discount, but like they had Claypool so it's like why wasn't Nelson their priority? Makes no sense but we will see.

I just personally can't stand juju, he sucks. He's had a decent rookie and 2nd season, otherwise he's been a tiktok twitch clown and has costed us a handful of playoff games now. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Savatage79 said:

I just personally can't stand juju, he sucks. He's had a decent rookie and 2nd season, otherwise he's been a tiktok twitch clown and has costed us a handful of playoff games now. 

Yyyyyyep.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Savatage79 said:

That's where steelers made no sense to me , like they got Claypool to replace juju...nobody wanted juju so he crawls back and they get him at a discount, but like they had Claypool so it's like why wasn't Nelson their priority? Makes no sense but we will see.

I just personally can't stand juju, he sucks. He's had a decent rookie and 2nd season, otherwise he's been a tiktok twitch clown and has costed us a handful of playoff games now. 

He rode AB's coattails to relevance. Clearly the third best receiver on his team and it's not close.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MingusDew said:

He rode AB's coattails to relevance. Clearly the third best receiver on his team and it's not close.

That's what I mean like he was totally a product of AB, but like Mark madden always says here the people embrace this kid and why  ? Definitely not his ability to play football or win, he's all about his brand and I just hate that because it shows in his garbage play. Those costly mistakes were the worst ,dancing on logos,  fumbling away playoff games , I was so happy when he was supposed to be gone 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Savatage79 said:

Look at those highlights man, the footage doesn't lie. Not everything is about the deep ball , but there are a ton of 30 40 yard passes that look spot on.

For fantasy purposes Ben isn't exactly the model of elite points, but for a player he can still make plays .

I'm the first in Pittsburgh that is ready for the next chapter , however, you can't discount that Ben had no run game to lean on at all. We didn't have that many big play makers,  and now we added a big time playmaker and possibly another of Freiermuth gets in.

Matt Ryan gets yardage but he had a lower passer rating than Ben last year and has thrown under 30 tds in 2 years now , with 14 ints in 2019 with only 26 tds. 

I am all for pointing out steelers flaws but these blanket statements like Ben can only throw dinks and dunks when there's footage of strikes he can make to the end zone that shoe otherwise and nobody wants to acknowledge it.

Ben is on the cusp, but with line upgrades and and a huge playmaker like Harris, the team could rebound nicely from that ending 1-5 of last year.

A couple things. It's not 1995. This isn't the "run to set up the pass" NFL anymore. Hell--half the league passes to set up the run. It's a passing league full of a lot of players who came up playing a lot of 7s football. I don't think using "the running game was unproductive so that's why Ben went in the tank" is very valid. JuJu might be overrated but overall he had one of the better receiving squad in the league last year (top 10?). 

Also you mentioned the bit about Ben only throwing dinks and dunks. He may be able to throw more than that but the fact of the matter is the Steelers passing game went in the toilet as soon as opposing defenses realized that Ben did NOT want to get hit and was going to do everything he could to get rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds. His average time of release last season was 2.29 seconds, the fastest in the league. His WRs aren't getting open downfield that fast and when teams keyed in on this and started covering the fast strike, close and medium range passes things fell apart and Ben either couldn't or wouldn't do anything else. 

Honestly what is the Steelers' long term plan here? Their current QB is running on the fumes of his fumes. They don't have their next starting QB on their roster. It looks like they're going to give it another go this season meaning more than likely they won't be drafting high enough to get top QB talent in the 2022 draft (which is currently considered a QB-weak draft). That means they maybe add a starting caliber rookie QB in 2023, at the earliest. At that point their just-drafted 1st round RB will be going into his 3rd year of HEAVY usage at the age of 26, if everything goes right. That...doesn't seem like a great long term plan. The sad truth of the matter is "drafted a RB" and "long term plan" don't really go together so much in the NFL anymore. That position just chews players up and spits them out. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, yossarian said:

A couple things. It's not 1995. This isn't the "run to set up the pass" NFL anymore. Hell--half the league passes to set up the run. It's a passing league full of a lot of players who came up playing a lot of 7s football. I don't think using "the running game was unproductive so that's why Ben went in the tank" is very valid. JuJu might be overrated but overall he had one of the better receiving squad in the league last year (top 10?). 

Also you mentioned the bit about Ben only throwing dinks and dunks. He may be able to throw more than that but the fact of the matter is the Steelers passing game went in the toilet as soon as opposing defenses realized that Ben did NOT want to get hit and was going to do everything he could to get rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds. His average time of release last season was 2.29 seconds, the fastest in the league. His WRs aren't getting open downfield that fast and when teams keyed in on this and started covering the fast strike, close and medium range passes things fell apart and Ben either couldn't or wouldn't do anything else. 

Honestly what is the Steelers' long term plan here? Their current QB is running on the fumes of his fumes. They don't have their next starting QB on their roster. It looks like they're going to give it another go this season meaning more than likely they won't be drafting high enough to get top QB talent in the 2022 draft (which is currently considered a QB-weak draft). That means they maybe add a starting caliber rookie QB in 2023, at the earliest. At that point their just-drafted 1st round RB will be going into his 3rd year of HEAVY usage at the age of 26, if everything goes right. That...doesn't seem like a great long term plan. The sad truth of the matter is "drafted a RB" and "long term plan" don't really go together so much in the NFL anymore. That position just chews players up and spits them out. 

 

The team is always relevant, so  even tho I disagree with some moves they are always competitors so I'll trust the front office. 

All the questions you're asking are just run of the mill football questions that a team will address, Ben sticking around puts it back a year gettin a future qb but we have no idea what will happen or change going into next year,  you never know.  Their aware I'm sure. 

There have been many teams in the shitter that has some stud players that produce..but this team isn't even really in the shitter, some aspects are but overall they just might improve in a few areas. 

Us sitting here tryin to predict what they're do is moot , we have no clue how the chips will fall.

I don't know tho what some of you are clamoring about as we all still drafted conner without much thought and Harris is a major upgrade, and the line could be better as it only can go up from here...the man will produce in fantasy,  simple as that. 

Edited by Savatage79
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...