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Before he was an ineffective plodder with the Jets and Chiefs, Bell was a dominant force who tormented opposing defenses on the ground and through the air.

Before he was a dominant force, Bell was an ineffective plodder.

 

 

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K197040's Dog 2021 Outlook

Steelers league worst offensive line just lost one of its better players. DeCastro released today. This offensive line is going to be a hot mess and I wouldn't draft Harris with one or YOUR draft pick

I don't know enough about Najee Harris to comment, at a quick glance, I'm significant higher on him that the general public.  It's early for me, but I'm currently looking at a ranking of RB12, top of

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Posted (edited)

Yea , coming out of college bell was just ok...had a decent final year but nothing elaborate.  And with the Steelers imo he just hit lightning in a bottle, the scheme and line worked for him... so to me he was a product of the system more than anything. 

I sorta don't get how anyone could even remotely debate the two athletes coming out of college,  harris and bell aren't even close imo 

Edited by Savatage79
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17 minutes ago, Savatage79 said:

Yea , coming out of college bell was just ok...had a decent final year but nothing elaborate.  And with the Steelers imo he just hit lightning in a bottle, the scheme and line worked for him... so to me he was a product of the system more than anything. 

I sorta don't get how anyone could even remotely debate the two athletes coming out of college,  harris and bell aren't even close imo 

? I don't see it that way. Bell was pretty highly regarded coming out of MSU. I don't have any concrete details other than I watched him play there - he was highly talented. 

Najee did play for what is basically a semi-pro team in a world of amateurs. The team that gets all the blue chip recruits - AL. So Najee's resume vs a Bell in the Big 10 is probably a bit more complex.

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1 minute ago, SuperJoint said:

? I don't see it that way. Bell was pretty highly regarded coming out of MSU. I don't have any concrete details other than I watched him play there - he was highly talented. 

Najee did play for what is basically a semi-pro team in a world of amateurs. The team that gets all the blue chip recruits - AL. So Najee's resume vs a Bell in the Big 10 is probably a bit more complex.

When we drafted him man honestly the talk was why did we take such a plodder in the 2nd round . He was not an exciting draft pick and I mean ,that is what the people here in Pittsburgh felt. Sure it turned out for him but I go back to this....with bell producing we still won nothing, and we had the leagues best WR to boot...and we won nothing.

So to me it's like something didn't jive ultimately,  bell ,brown and Ben played like half a game together in playoffs . Bell was dinged up when it mattered it seemed all the time.

Harris is to me ,light years ahead of what bell was coming into the league. 

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https://stillcurtain.com/2013/04/26/2013-nfl-draft-grades-2nd-round-pick-pittsburgh-steelers-leveon-bell/

 

I actually remember reading this article back in 13. But this was the overall feel for bell, it just wasn't an instant "win" feel type pick. Bell lost weight and that was a key moment finally but he just wasn't someone that most were in love with. 

Like i said I'm just surprised how some are holding bell so high, he did not a thing once he left and his tenure here while pretty impressive at times ultimately lead to nothing but disappointment  /shrug

Edited by Savatage79
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12 minutes ago, SuperJoint said:

? I don't see it that way. Bell was pretty highly regarded coming out of MSU. I don't have any concrete details other than I watched him play there - he was highly talented. 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/26/4174624/2013-nfl-draft-results-leveon-bell-pittsburgh-steelers

Bell's a truck: 6'2, 230 pounds, with decent straight-line speed. He's not the most nimble runner, but he does have some ability to make guys miss. That said, he's going to thrive in the NFL thanks to his ability to bruise and break hits with his sheer size. He'll be able to go up the gut and dish out as many hits as he takes, and his college resume shows he can handle a full-time workload and then some. He might project more as a short-yardage/goal-line back than an every-down guy, but he can handle the workload if a team decides to give it to him.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2013/2/25/4028490/2013-nfl-draft-prospects-leveon-bell-scouting-profile-denver-broncos

Bell has monster size, but also shows nimble feet. Can make people miss at any level of the field, but doesn't have very good vision. As the season progressed, Bell's lateral agility declined. Bell proved capable of handling a tremendous amount of touches. To become a full-time back though, Bell will need to continue to improve his ability as a pass catcher or become a more consistent blocker, in addition to improving his vision as a runner.

He was drafted in the 2nd round, and this wasn't a big surprise. First RB was Gio Bernard, btw, Eddie Lacy was 4.

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Gotcha - but these are hindsight points you're making. No one was better than Le'Veon for a good couple years there. Most RBs never achieve what he did in just that short time. One skill he showed with the Steelers was his utility in the passing game - that was a dimension no one really fathomed when he came out of MSU.

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1 minute ago, SuperJoint said:

Gotcha - but these are hindsight points you're making. No one was better than Le'Veon for a good couple years there. Most RBs never achieve what he did in just that short time. One skill he showed with the Steelers was his utility in the passing game - that was a dimension no one really fathomed when he came out of MSU.

 

Eh, bro go back and look up guys like Tomlinson, Alexander,  Smith, Forte, charles, Sjax....these guys had many many seasons of doing what bell did and way more. 

Bell was a surprise but he also had the leagues best receiver pulling coverage like crazy. 

As a Pittsburgher I enjoyed it but I still would take the Bettis years over the short bell years any day of the week and I'm betting Harris will be even better. Bell had 3 seasons that were good, outside of that he brought very little to Pittsburgh.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Savatage79 said:

When we drafted him man honestly the talk was why did we take such a plodder in the 2nd round . He was not an exciting draft pick and I mean ,that is what the people here in Pittsburgh felt. Sure it turned out for him but I go back to this....with bell producing we still won nothing, and we had the leagues best WR to boot...and we won nothing.

So to me it's like something didn't jive ultimately,  bell ,brown and Ben played like half a game together in playoffs . Bell was dinged up when it mattered it seemed all the time.

Harris is to me ,light years ahead of what bell was coming into the league. 

There's a lot of bickering about the true value of RB's in a Super Bowl run, but this is the first time I've ever seen someone blame their 2nd round RB who goes on the best the best back in the league for their team not winning anything. 

Edited by P@ckersFan
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1 hour ago, P@ckersFan said:

There's a lot of bickering about the true value of RB's in a Super Bowl run, but this is the first time I've ever seen someone blame their 2nd round RB who goes on the best the best back in the league for their team not winning anything. 

 

What is so hard about understanding that his run was ultimately disappointing while also having the best wr in the league? Yea he was doing great , but it doesn't change that people weren't super excited about Bell when we got him, you want me to go back and change history? The point is simply Bells run was good at the time but it led to an ultimately disappointing end.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Savatage79 said:

 

What is so hard about understanding that his run was ultimately disappointing while also having the best wr in the league? Yea he was doing great , but it doesn't change that people weren't super excited about Bell when we got him, you want me to go back and change history? The point is simply Bells run was good at the time but it led to an ultimately disappointing end.

 

 

Whose fault is that though? He was the best running back in the league who took on heavy volume and was an excellent pass blocker for Ben. 

The Bucs spent the same draft capital on Ronald Jones that the Steelers did on Le'Veon and he wasn't even their lead back during their Super Bowl run.  Le'Veon was one of the best players in the entire league. 

Bell's narrative with the Steelers is a guy who wasn't that highly regarded out of college who transformed himself in the the best running back in the league to benefit his team. He's one of the last people to blame for the organization's inability to win a Super Bowl during that tenure.  

Edited by P@ckersFan
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, P@ckersFan said:

Whose fault is that though? He was the best running back in the league who took on heavy volume and was an excellent pass blocker for Ben. 

The Bucs spent the same draft capital on Ronald Jones that the Steelers did on Le'Veon and he wasn't even their lead back during their Super Bowl run.  Le'Veon was one of the best players in the entire league. 

Bell's narrative with the Steelers is a guy who wasn't that highly regarded out of college who transformed himself in the the best running back in the league to benefit his team. He's one of the last people to blame for the organization's inability to win a Super Bowl during that tenure.  

But I'm not blaming him. There's two different conversations going on here, my overall position is Harris is a huge prospect straight out of college that everyone Is excited about, his welcome is greater than Bells ever was.  That's the point. 

There's something to be said for the fact that Ben, Brown and Bell didn't muster up anything in the post season. Stats on field were great,  but off field antics and distractions were plenty.

Bell will be remembered as a back that yea, really looked great for a few seasons but ultimately it led to disappointments

Harris is a brand new start to rebuilding this run game and will be a ton of fun to watch unfold

Edited by Savatage79
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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Savatage79 said:

Harris is a brand new start to rebuilding this run game and will be a ton of fun to watch unfold

Look, if you would post this on the Steelers forum or tell me this over a beer in the bar, I would tell you yeah buddy, but we're not and I won't.

We're on a fantasy forum, trying to figure out where to draft Harris in redraft or Dynasty. And so I will correct you:

"Harris is a brand new start to rebuilding this run game and will be interesting to watch unfold, but also ultimately frustrating until the Steelers get an O-line. Draft him with that in mind."

Edited by Boudewijn
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1 hour ago, Boudewijn said:

Look, if you would post this on the Steelers forum or tell me this over a beer in the bar, I would tell you yeah buddy, but we're not and I won't.

We're on a fantasy forum, trying to figure out where to draft Harris in redraft or Dynasty. And so I will correct you:

"Harris is a brand new start to rebuilding this run game and will be interesting to watch unfold, but also ultimately frustrating until the Steelers get an O-line. Draft him with that in mind."

Any line in this game can fall short at any moment due to injury, one or two foundation lineman get hurt and any line could be in bad shape.

I get the notion but I think its being WAY overplayed.  Yea we're on a fantasy board and I also have no idea where Harris goes "yet". All we can do is see what the Steelers can put together. I'll put trust in Steelers to get their line In good shape and hey it might not happen til next year, but it'll happen soon.

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3 hours ago, Savatage79 said:

"Any line in this game can fall short at any moment due to injury, one or two foundation lineman get hurt and any line could be in bad shape. I get the notion but I think its being WAY overplayed.  Yea we're on a fantasy board and I also have no idea where Harris goes "yet". ... " 

Yeah, the counter is that they sucked up front, are now w/o Villanueva & Pouncey & haven't done enough to replace them. I found this article featuring an interview with Villanueva to be of interest: 

Quote

"The Steelers attempted the fifth-fewest runs last season, while attempting the most passes. By and large, a lot of that had to do with the fact that they could not run the ball well for most of the season — in spite of the fact that they started the season out doing it at a sufficiently high level through the first five or so games. Alejandro Villanueva is now going from the most pass-happy team to the most run-happy team. ... “The mindset when you know that you’re with a team that runs the ball well, it involves every single room of the offense. Everybody’s in unison, and it’s a lot of timing involved,” he said.

“You don’t have a lot of angst when the team is running the ball well. When you have to pass the ball, especially like what we had to do ..., it involves an incredible amount of pressure, because you know the pass rushers can get on a rhythm.”... “For us as an offensive line ... it was incredibly challenging,” he added, “that we knew we had to go with these game plans that involve passing the ball potentially the entire game, and not really practice or rehearse that other part of football that relieves some of that angst.”  https://steelersdepot.com/2021/05/alejandro-villanueva-2020-season-was-incredibly-challenging-for-steelers-ol-with-pass-heavy-game-plans/

To me, that Pittsburgh was running the ball effectively counts for something. As you mention, mounting injuries certainly factored. But the latter part of the quote is definitely concerning. That running the ball was largely scrapped from the game plan, that there was little to no emphasis for balance in practice? A lot of us can agree there can be no carry over of that! Given the direction they've taken, I believe the effort to restore balance will occur. Kendrick Green at OC & Freiermuth as their inline TE are both excellent fits toward that objective. 

Above it was suggested, oh, guys like Okorafor & Dotson, they, they don't have enough experience. No? Well, if what Villanueva was quoted as saying is true, then these two young players were fed to the wolves with their backs against the wall. The offense just constantly in the wrong play, often subjected to a jailbreak. Now they're both penciled in as starters? Could be wrong but I'm not having any trouble following what the organization sees in them. Oh, and add to the mix Najee Harris! It's on! 

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Hearing Steelers fans talk about Bell is hilarious. It's enough salt to fill the Grand Canyon.

Who cares where he was drafted or what the reports were? Imagine me going into the Mac Jones and arguing him over Brady because of their draft profiles.

You know why people hold Bell so high? Probably because he averaged 137 YPG over the course of 4 seasons. He basically stayed on a 16 season pace of 2,200 yards from 2014-2017.

Then it's all the Steelers because he didn't play football for over a year, clearly signed a contract for the money, and then didn't dominate for the worst coach and offense in the NFL. Also cherry picking post draft evaluations is easy (they're also a joke). @Boudewijn game some examples but here are some more: 

"Le'Veon Bell is a big back with quick feet and outstanding instincts. Additionally, he is a natural pass catcher with the receiving skills to play a prominent role in the passing game."

 "Bell likely got the nod for Pittsburgh because he's a better blocker than most running backs. His playing style fits how the Steelers run the ball. "

"The Steelers had nine picks, and the best of them was second-round running back Le'Veon Bell. "

 "Round 2 RB Le'Veon Bell? Bargain, should start."

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

Hearing Steelers fans talk about Bell is hilarious. It's enough salt to fill the Grand Canyon.

Who cares where he was drafted or what the reports were? Imagine me going into the Mac Jones and arguing him over Brady because of their draft profiles.

You know why people hold Bell so high? Probably because he averaged 137 YPG over the course of 4 seasons. He basically stayed on a 16 season pace of 2,200 yards from 2014-2017.

Then it's all the Steelers because he didn't play football for over a year, clearly signed a contract for the money, and then didn't dominate for the worst coach and offense in the NFL. Also cherry picking post draft evaluations is easy (they're also a joke). @Boudewijn game some examples but here are some more: 

"Le'Veon Bell is a big back with quick feet and outstanding instincts. Additionally, he is a natural pass catcher with the receiving skills to play a prominent role in the passing game."

 "Bell likely got the nod for Pittsburgh because he's a better blocker than most running backs. His playing style fits how the Steelers run the ball. "

"The Steelers had nine picks, and the best of them was second-round running back Le'Veon Bell. "

 "Round 2 RB Le'Veon Bell? Bargain, should start."

 

I don't know what you're tryin so hard to convince here bruh, is Bell your dad or something? Yea great he was a good back here in Pittsburgh,  I enjoyed him for fantasy and watching him but his attitude and antics at times sucked and he was a cancer just like his buddy AB. I'm glad they're both gone and I'm glad Bell went on to do not a damn thing as he was made by the Steelers.  Sorry that I'm not here sucking his tits as much as you'd like me too and that I'm more interested in what najee harris can do than a has been former plodder who won nothing.

Edited by Savatage79
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3 minutes ago, Savatage79 said:

 

I don't know what you're tryin so hard to convince here bruh, is Bell your dad or something? Yea great he was a good back here in Pittsburgh,  I enjoyed him for fantasy and watching him but his attitude and antics at times sucked and he was a cancer just like his buddy AB. I'm glad they're both gone and I'm glad Bell went on to do not a damn thing as he was made by the Steelers.  Sorry that I'm not here sucking his tits as much as you'd like me too and that I'm more interested in what najee harris can do than a has been former plodder who won nothing.

No as i've made it very clear before Rodgers is my dad.

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1 minute ago, Gohawks said:

No as i've made it very clear before Rodgers is my dad.

Ah ok, well he's a moron to so bell , Rodgers, same difference 

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On 5/11/2021 at 7:25 AM, Boudewijn said:

Look, if you would post this on the Steelers forum or tell me this over a beer in the bar, I would tell you yeah buddy, but we're not and I won't.

We're on a fantasy forum, trying to figure out where to draft Harris in redraft or Dynasty. And so I will correct you:

"Harris is a brand new start to rebuilding this run game and will be interesting to watch unfold, but also ultimately frustrating until the Steelers get an O-line. Draft him with that in mind."

when homers weigh in, they can't simply divorce feelings of insecurity & trepidation from their posts, OR hope & enthusiasm, so we community members have to be more forgiving of members like @Savatage79.

consider this insight from pittsburgh homer paige spiranac and ask yourself, Should Paige's bursting with enthusiasm be forgiven?

Paige Spiranac.jpg

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1 minute ago, Sack Exchange said:

Should Paige's bursting with enthusiasm be forgiven?

Paige can burst anytime in my general direction. If anything, it should be positively encouraged.

Now her views on Najee... We'll see about that.

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6 hours ago, Sack Exchange said:

when homers weigh in, they can't simply divorce feelings of insecurity & trepidation from their posts, OR hope & enthusiasm, so we community members have to be more forgiving of members like @Savatage79.

consider this insight from pittsburgh homer paige spiranac and ask yourself, Should Paige's bursting with enthusiasm be forgiven?

Paige Spiranac.jpg

tenor.gif?itemid=15421334

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RB Najee Harris said Steelers offensive coordinator Matt Canada's run game concept are similar to ones used at Alabama. 

“The inside zones, the outside zones, the power plays, the one-back power, the duo plays, so a lot of what they are doing in their offense resembles a lot of what we did [at Alabama]," said Harris, the team's first round pick. Canada is expected to bring much more pre-snap motion to Pittsburgh's offense -- a much needed development after a season in which the team's offense often appeared stale and predictable. Canada's mix of gap and zone run plays and the addition of Harris should rejuvenate what was the worst rushing attack in the NFL last year. With no competition in the Steelers backfield, Harris could lead all running backs in touches this season. 

May 17, 2021, 12:00 PM ET
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1 hour ago, The G Man said:

RB Najee Harris said Steelers offensive coordinator Matt Canada's run game concept are similar to ones used at Alabama. 

“The inside zones, the outside zones, the power plays, the one-back power, the duo plays, so a lot of what they are doing in their offense resembles a lot of what we did [at Alabama]," said Harris, the team's first round pick. Canada is expected to bring much more pre-snap motion to Pittsburgh's offense -- a much needed development after a season in which the team's offense often appeared stale and predictable. Canada's mix of gap and zone run plays and the addition of Harris should rejuvenate what was the worst rushing attack in the NFL last year. With no competition in the Steelers backfield, Harris could lead all running backs in touches this season. 

May 17, 2021, 12:00 PM ET

This is already starting to feel like a season-long TNF hype train disaster.

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