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2021 May Closer Thread


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33 minutes ago, Overlord said:

When is the last time you saw a closer committee where they weren't all mediocre, or worse?

**The manager not having settled on a closer in April is not a "closer committee."

Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, Randy Myers

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6 minutes ago, murraygd13 said:

Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, Randy Myers

Any one of those guys would literally knock you out for making this suggestion.

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Seems like Staumont is one of those closers who only pitches lights out when it’s a save opp.  Without going back to old box scores to confirm, seems like all of his blowups have been in non save opps.  Seems like something Matheny should have picked up on by now.  

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While you guys are talking about the Staumonts and Detroit Tigers Closers of the world Alex Reyes just logged his 14th Save and has a 0.38 ERA. 
 

Give the man his due.

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10 hours ago, Richard Kimble said:

Sorry to say but this outing doesn't change Staumont's status one bit, he's the closer. It was a 4 run lead, non-save situation, always terrible spot for a closer, and he managed to throw over 35 pitches, so I'd expect to see Holland most likely in a save opp tomorrow. 

You have to understand that he came to be closer because they started 14-8 or whatever, and that is why they called up Daniel Lynch too early also. It signified to the fanbase they are competing with their best team. I believe if they started 10-12 then Holland would still be closing games. But now they're on the fringe, and though they have sunk below .500 again, I think they'll keep Staumont in the closer role through a few rough outings like this. 

 

9 hours ago, IlliniGuy76 said:

He hadn't blown a save opportunity yet....

 

6 hours ago, swingbatter said:

Seems like Staumont is one of those closers who only pitches lights out when it’s a save opp.  Without going back to old box scores to confirm, seems like all of his blowups have been in non save opps.  Seems like something Matheny should have picked up on by now.  

It seems like any time a closer gets blown up with a 4 run lead, or some other situation that just barely falls outside the bounds of the otherwise arbitrary saves rule, ALL of his fantasy owners inevitably pop into this thread to give some version of "but it wasn't a save opportunity, so this won't worry anyone, especially not the manager. This is fine."

The only problem with this analysis is that it's COMPLETE BULLSH*T. NO ONE thinks like this other than fantasy baseballers. Not a single fan, coach or player comes away feeling much more comfortable with the 4 run blowup where a guy barely hangs on just because it happened to fall slightly outside the saves rule. 

Now, all that to say, in the case of Staumont, he is still likely viewed as the least bad RP in the Royals' bullpen (where 12 BBs in 21 IP is -not- absolutely awful). But make no mistake, last night's awful appearance will completely factor into that general viewpoint going forward, for everyone. That is, other than the few people who happen to own him in fantasy baseball. 

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59 minutes ago, Fiveohnine said:

 

 

It seems like any time a closer gets blown up with a 4 run lead, or some other situation that just barely falls outside the bounds of the otherwise arbitrary saves rule, ALL of his fantasy owners inevitably pop into this thread to give some version of "but it wasn't a save opportunity, so this won't worry anyone, especially not the manager. This is fine."

The only problem with this analysis is that it's COMPLETE BULLSH*T. NO ONE thinks like this other than fantasy baseballers. Not a single fan, coach or player comes away feeling much more comfortable with the 4 run blowup where a guy barely hangs on just because it happened to fall slightly outside the saves rule. 

Now, all that to say, in the case of Staumont, he is still likely viewed as the least bad RP in the Royals' bullpen (where 12 BBs in 21 IP is -not- absolutely awful). But make no mistake, last night's awful appearance will completely factor into that general viewpoint going forward, for everyone. That is, other than the few people who happen to own him in fantasy baseball. 

Thought Barlow was pretty good

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40 minutes ago, rotoguy74 said:

How long is Edwin's leash? May next in line right?

May is but I'm pretty sure Edwin's been fine... no?

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20 minutes ago, fingy said:

May is but I'm pretty sure Edwin's been fine... no?

in 18 appearances he's given up runs 3 times.  I'd say he's pretty safe. Not sure why the other poster is speculating on his backup, might as well see who's next in line for Chapman or Hendriks too.

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2 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

It seems like any time a closer gets blown up with a 4 run lead, or some other situation that just barely falls outside the bounds of the otherwise arbitrary saves rule, ALL of his fantasy owners inevitably pop into this thread to give some version of "but it wasn't a save opportunity, so this won't worry anyone, especially not the manager. This is fine."

The only problem with this analysis is that it's COMPLETE BULLSH*T. NO ONE thinks like this other than fantasy baseballers. Not a single fan, coach or player comes away feeling much more comfortable with the 4 run blowup where a guy barely hangs on just because it happened to fall slightly outside the saves rule. 

This is the same conversation we had a month before about Daniel Bard, and he's still firmly entrenched as the closer in Colorado. You're wrong if you think managers don't give their guy a pass when he hasn't pitched a week or comes into a 4-run game to get work in. I've seen managers say in postgame interviews "That's on me for bringing him in" and especially on the bad teams.  

Some things are anecdotal; I might find that if I pulled data on closers pitching in NSS they aren't actually any better or worse. Nonetheless, this is a truism when analyzing closers (just as we will now give a free pass to any closer who allows the free runner to score in extra innings) that you can rely on. If Staumont had actually blown that 4-run lead, maybe be worried, but he held on, so his owners don't need to panic today and start looking for who's next in line. 

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7 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

This is the same conversation we had a month before about Daniel Bard, and he's still firmly entrenched as the closer in Colorado. You're wrong if you think managers don't give their guy a pass when he hasn't pitched a week or comes into a 4-run game to get work in. I've seen managers say in postgame interviews "That's on me for bringing him in" and especially on the bad teams.  

Some things are anecdotal; I might find that if I pulled data on closers pitching in NSS they aren't actually any better or worse. Nonetheless, this is a truism when analyzing closers (just as we will now give a free pass to any closer who allows the free runner to score in extra innings) that you can rely on. If Staumont had actually blown that 4-run lead, maybe be worried, but he held on, so his owners don't need to panic today and start looking for who's next in line. 

There’s research on closers pitching in non save situations. I think it concluded they pitch very slightly worse.  Probably has more to do with the fact they’re often in those situations due to not having pitched in a while, rather than they’re not mentally capable of doing it.

 This is about closers in general. I’m aware there are some (Iglesias) whose numbers vary more and are vocal about not wanting to pitch in NSS.

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1 minute ago, Cesare13 said:

While we're at it,can we stop calling giving up 2 runs a "meltdown"?

I agree, but it is the nature of a waiver wire closer. If you got him for free, you should be aware of who's next in line anyway, and you're aware that since he ostensibly came out of nowhere to claim the role, someone else could do the same. But you're right, every time a closer enters the game and allows a few hits or a run or two its Chicken Little on here. Most of all people ignore the context of the team the guy pitches for. Are they competing, do they have an old school manager, how much money a guy is making, etc.

One of the interesting things I'm seeing is that some of the better teams are now following the Rays lead and using their bullpens a bit more non-traditionally. Its sort of presented a challenge now to guys like Dave Roberts and Terry Francona to use their relievers more optimally, and they are responding to it by getting out of their "push button" closer comfort zone. Unlikely the same will happen with the Yanks or White Sox, but the overall trends we're seeing this year are likely to permeate the game in years to come. 25+ saves will be the new 30, and two and three headed committees will be more common-place.

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13 minutes ago, ZMan17 said:

If I had to keep one and drop the other - Jordan Romano and Rafael Dolis? Who has the upper hand right now?

There is no upper hand. Romano is the better pitcher so I’d rather own the guy with better stuff but save chances will be game flow dependent. I don’t think either will be the closer by this time in June.

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3 hours ago, ZMan17 said:

If I had to keep one and drop the other - Jordan Romano and Rafael Dolis? Who has the upper hand right now?

 

Not even a question IMO Romano

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