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I want to start a thread to talk about and discuss some of the unwritten rules of baseball, and some of the controversy it has stewed up this year (mods please by all means move this to the appropriate thread if there is one). What has me thinking about this topic this year is the controversy with Tatis early on and Mercedes this week… swinging on a 3-0 pitch with a sizable lead (and homering nonetheless). I support some unwritten rules and old school rules of the game. This one I cannot wrap my head around. This is baseball.. there is no clock determining the end of the game. Comebacks can happen at any time. It’s also the major leagues. I get this “rule” for amateur leagues or like little league/travel ball/high school. Sometimes the other team just sucks and really has no chance. But come on. These are big leaguers. If you can take a pitch yard then do it! There is no mercy rule and I really don’t think it’s disrespectful to the other team. Sure they’re down quite a bit, but comebacks can happen at any time. If anything, it seems disrespectful to expect a batter to give a free 40mph lob ball down the middle to the pitcher for a free strike. Position player on the mound or not, earn it.

does anyone else share this view? Like I said I really do support most unwritten rules but this one isn’t one of them. What I do understand is that as a player, if a coach tells you to take then you take. But I guess my issue is why would the manager automatically give a take in that situation. It shouldn’t be an automatic take. Obviously if the guys goes yard the. he probably shouldn’t have taken a pitch. Lol. Score as many runs as you can at all times. The other pitchers gave up 10+ runs or whatever it may be, why couldn’t the same happen to the team who is in the lead? No mercy.

Thoughts? This has me hot and bothered since seeing Mercedes get slammed for it.

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I have a problem with pitchers retaliating because they pitch poorly.  You don't want a homer off of you then pitch better Mr Bozo.

Absolute clown show from Minnesota and LaRussa. Guys have had DL stints (or come close -- remember Acuna?) from getting thrown at in retaliation for nonsense  -- that's not "justice" or "the players p

When is it warranted? When is “you made me look bad at my job, so I am going to hurt you” not absolutely ludicrous? 

1 minute ago, itaos said:

I've got no problem with it nor with the retaliation that will follow. Let the players play.

Kinda feel the same

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To bad the umpires didn't feel the same way. Twins pitcher got tossed for throwing way behind (about two feet) Mercedes. In the rain a good case could be made the pitch slipped but oh well.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

To bad the umpires didn't feel the same way. Twins pitcher got tossed for throwing way behind (about two feet) Mercedes. In the rain a good case could be made the pitch slipped but oh well.

That pitch did not slip, no way. It was absolutely necessary to toss the pitcher and Baldelli without a warning in this situation. Not to mention they got an apology from La Russa, and I'll bet anything its known in both clubhouses that Yermin was fined X amount of dollars by TLR, which is as much punishment as he should receive, only because he ignored or missed a sign from his team.

Edited by Richard Kimble
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Posted (edited)

My only question would be; so he takes 3-0, then what?  He hammers the 3-1 pitch and somehow that’s fine?

I guess I could kind of get the frustration if the Twins were even pretending to try, but Astudillo is literally lobbing the ball 47 MPH.  At least put a position player out there that can touch 80.

 The Twins made it a spectacle by putting Astudillo on the mound so I guess I can’t get too upset with Yermin adding to the circus.

Edited by 89Topps
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I'll be honest I've never actually met someone who's in favor of unwritten rules that encourage players to not play the game such as not swinging on a 3-0 count. Every time this happens all the journalists will write a bunch of nonsense articles about "unwritten rules yadda yadda" when in reality no one is upset at all (except for an old manager like TLR) and it really isn't contentious at all to 99% of the people that watch the sport.

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10 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

That pitch did not slip, no way. It was absolutely necessary to toss the pitcher and Baldelli without a warning in this situation. Not to mention they got an apology from La Russa, and I'll bet anything its known in both clubhouses that Yermin was fined X amount of dollars by TLR, which is as much punishment as he should receive, only because he ignored or missed a sign from his team.

Whether it was on purpose or it slipped the player shouldn't be tossed without a warning. This made it seem like an arbitrary call by the home plate umpire. Whether Mercedes swung or not really doesn't matter to me but that was the first earned run the "turtle" had given up.

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10 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

My only question would be; so he takes 3-0, then what?  He hammers the 3-1 pitch and somehow that’s fine?

I guess I could kind of get the frustration if the Twins were even pretending to try, but Astudillo is literally lobbing the ball 47 MPH.  At least put a position player out there that can touch 80.

 The Twins made it a spectacle by putting Astudillo on the mound so I guess I can’t get too upset with Yermin adding to the circus.

My thought exactly.. Astudillo's might as well have been soft tossing the ball. What the hell do you want yermin to do? Strike out on purpose because the Sox were up by 10+??

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11 minutes ago, Csiebert5 said:

My thought exactly.. Astudillo's might as well have been soft tossing the ball. What the hell do you want yermin to do? Strike out on purpose because the Sox were up by 10+??

So put in a position player who can throw 90 with no idea where it's going? 

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Absolute clown show from Minnesota and LaRussa. Guys have had DL stints (or come close -- remember Acuna?) from getting thrown at in retaliation for nonsense  -- that's not "justice" or "the players policing things." Hopefully Baldelli and Duffey get nice long suspensions and hefty fines. We all saw what happened to Pillar yesterday. Intentionally hitting someone with a baseball is ******** serious. Especially when you throw at someone on a rainy day, you can't say for sure where it's going.

Meanwhile, hitting a home run on a 3-0 count from a meme player lobbing 45 mph pitches is just fun. The game needs more Yermins and Acunas and Nandos and a whole lot less unwritten rules garbage.

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Just now, sleepysock said:

Absolute clown show from Minnesota and LaRussa. Guys have had DL stints (or come close -- remember Acuna?) from getting thrown at in retaliation for nonsense  -- that's not "justice" or "the players policing things." Hopefully Baldelli and Duffey get nice long suspensions and hefty fines. We all saw what happened to Pillar yesterday. Intentionally hitting someone with a baseball is ******** serious. Especially when you throw at someone on a rainy day, you can't say for sure where it's going.

Meanwhile, hitting a home run on a 3-0 count from a meme player lobbing 45 mph pitches is just fun. The game needs more Yermins and Acunas and Nandos and a whole lot less unwritten rules garbage.

The only time I recall someone getting hurt being thrown at was when roided out Clemens threw at Piazza.

I don’t actually mind guys getting plunked, if it’s warranted.

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1 minute ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

Should NBA players not play hard if the opponents rest their starters? Should NFL coaches tell their defenders not to sack backup QBs? If you don’t want your funny joke of a pitcher to get crushed forfeit the game 

Should NBA teams pull their starters with a big lead in the 4th quarter? Oh that's  right they actually do. Same happens in football to a certain degree as it is called garbage time and a softer defense is played

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8 minutes ago, sleepysock said:

Absolute clown show from Minnesota and LaRussa. Guys have had DL stints (or come close -- remember Acuna?) from getting thrown at in retaliation for nonsense  -- that's not "justice" or "the players policing things." Hopefully Baldelli and Duffey get nice long suspensions and hefty fines. We all saw what happened to Pillar yesterday. Intentionally hitting someone with a baseball is ******** serious. Especially when you throw at someone on a rainy day, you can't say for sure where it's going.

Meanwhile, hitting a home run on a 3-0 count from a meme player lobbing 45 mph pitches is just fun. The game needs more Yermins and Acunas and Nandos and a whole lot less unwritten rules garbage.

Acuna is a poor example as his hands are close to the plate and he leans into the pitch to help cover the outside corner. His hole becomes the high and inside pitch or shouldn't pitchers throw it there to try and get him out?

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1 hour ago, itaos said:

I've got no problem with it nor with the retaliation that will follow. Let the players play.

I have a problem with pitchers retaliating because they pitch poorly.  You don't want a homer off of you then pitch better Mr Bozo.

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7 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

Should NBA teams pull their starters with a big lead in the 4th quarter? Oh that's  right they actually do. Same happens in football to a certain degree as it is called garbage time and a softer defense is played

That was point. NBA teams go so far as to not even start guys for “rest days.” Again, if you can’t field a real team or want the other team to stop playing forfeit. Don’t apologize and do some draconian “we beat him with bars of soap in the shower” stuff because your guy swung a bat in the seventh inning. It is embarrassing for the sport.

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14 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

The only time I recall someone getting hurt being thrown at was when roided out Clemens threw at Piazza.

I don’t actually mind guys getting plunked, if it’s warranted.

When is it warranted? When is “you made me look bad at my job, so I am going to hurt you” not absolutely ludicrous? 

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3 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

That was point. NBA teams go so far as to not even start guys for “rest days.” Again, if you can’t field a real team or want the other team to stop playing forfeit. Don’t apologize and do some draconian “we beat him with bars of soap in the shower” stuff because your guy swung a bat in the seventh inning. It is embarrassing for the sport.

NBA players rest days have very little to do with the oppenant that night. Stars rest on b2b days mainly

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45 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

Whether it was on purpose or it slipped the player shouldn't be tossed without a warning. This made it seem like an arbitrary call by the home plate umpire. Whether Mercedes swung or not really doesn't matter to me but that was the first earned run the "turtle" had given up.

Maybe a warning was issued prior to the game?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

I have a problem with pitchers retaliating because they pitch poorly.  You don't want a homer off of you then pitch better Mr Bozo.

If you swing in a situation that traditionally leads to retaliation and you get assaulted by a baseball later on, that's business as usual.

I don't think either side is in the right . But if you touch a hot stove you know the result.

Edited by itaos
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5 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

NBA players rest days have very little to do with the oppenant that night. Stars rest on b2b days mainly

My point is that an NBA team resting starters doesn’t mean their opponents take it easy on them. If you put out your hilarious position player to pitch in the seventh inning don’t throw a fit if he gets hit. That isn’t the White Sox fault you don’t want to use real pitcher’s innings

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2 minutes ago, itaos said:

If you swing in a situation that traditionally leads to retaliation and you get assaulted by a baseball later on, that's business as usual.

I don't think either side is in the right . But if you touch a hot stove you know the result.

So because it traditionally leads to a beaning that is cool? What is the tradition for position players coming in to save innings for pitchers? That is like a 15 month tradition

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8 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

When is it warranted? When is “you made me look bad at my job, so I am going to hurt you” not absolutely ludicrous? 

That pitch came closer to hitting me than Mercedes.

 

Guess the part that irritates me is LaRusso talking with the home plate umpire before the inning started. No warning given and then before Duffy was tossed the umps had to make s joint decision to eject Duffy. If it was intentional Duffy being tossed was probably known by the Twins. Was a good move by LaRussa in talking with the home plate ump

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